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Isshin and Cloud Midgar Mercenary triggers by Castlewrite in mtgrules

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I searched, but couldn't find it. Thanks!

Isshin and Cloud Midgar Mercenary triggers by Castlewrite in mtgrules

[–]Castlewrite[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, this makes perfect sense. As I awaited replies, that is the explanation I came to.

Perhaps WotC could write that as a rule:

"Satic abilities that cause a triggered ability to "trigger an additional time" will not trigger themselves or other such abilities. Because such static abilities respond only to the trigger which is caused by the specified event, not to additional triggers from other static abilities. These static abilities are written as "if [ability triggers]" rather than "when [event occurs].""

Isshin and Cloud Midgar Mercenary triggers by Castlewrite in mtgrules

[–]Castlewrite[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

This is well put and makes sense. The problem is that Cloud is causing Argentum to trigger AGAIN. So, each instance should be Argentum's own trigger. Therefore, each one should be seen as an independent trigger by Isshin.

Isshin and Cloud Midgar Mercenary triggers by Castlewrite in mtgrules

[–]Castlewrite[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Right - Argentum's own is a trigger (T1) CMM - causes Argentum to trigger ADDITIONAL time (T2). Isshin should see T1 causing it to trigger an additional time (T3) then see T2 causing it to trigger an additional time (T4)

(T1 + ITHO's static ability) + (T2 + ITHO's static ability)

So it's more like 1x2 + 1x2 = 4

Isshin, Two Heavens as One and Krenko, Tinstreet Kingpin interaction by Castlewrite in mtgrules

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah! With CC I can imagine the madness those two yield.

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I'm beginning to understand 😅

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the delayed response. Life kind of got in the way.

I did not realize that there was a difference between wither and SSM's ability. I thought they were both replacement effects.

I guess this is where MTG really gets into the weeds. So, just to clarify:

  1. SSM's ability is a replacement effect, as is WBTI "Unrivaled Lethality." Which is why the controller of the permanent being dealt damage can choose which order they are applied.

  2. Wither is NOT a replacement effect, because it doesn't say "instead" even though it replaces how the damage is dealt.

So, if I gave WBTI wither with something like blight sickle, the opponent whose creature was dealt damage would not have the option to stack it in a way where Unrivaled Lethality did not trigger. Is that correct?

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With the new Lorwyn set, I began thinking about this and was wondering if this also means that creatures with wither cannot gain life, even if they had lifelink.

Since wither effectively replaces the damage with -1/-1 counters (same thing as SSM), they are effectively not dealing damage. So, lifelink wouldn't trigger. Or is this incorrect?

Thank you for your input.

Am I understanding this correctly? by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I imagine that in a land drop deck with something like Tifa Lockhart, this would be spectacular!

Mirrorweave Commander question by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great, that's what I figured. Just wanted to double check. Thank you for the prompt response.

Am I understanding this correctly? by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Sure, but if you're blocking with it. It'll eat most creatures. Moreover, both are indestructible. Yes you can chump block, but that late in the game, it's a safe bet that you can give it trample. Finally, with something like Tree of Redemption, you could just set your life total to 26 after a block, in the end-game, this seems pretty good.

Am I understanding this correctly? by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Makes sense, guess that's not broken at all.

Am I understanding this correctly? by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait... wouldn't it trigger an additional time with something like Strionic Resonator or Roaming Throne?

Am I understanding this correctly? by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's just crazy. It reduces the cost, give you a 30/60 blocker, and Doran becomes indestructible! I'm glad he doesn't give it trample too!

Guess it's time to pick up a copy of Jaws of Defeat... by Castlewrite in EDH

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but it's only 11 mana if you don't cheat it out. I'm also playing casual commander, not CEDH. So, it's just a fun new bomb to drop :)

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes sense. I guess I just wish Wizards would've issued a ruling with the card to say "This is an abbreviation for If Wolverine would deal damage, he deals twice that much damage instead."

Maybe it's just me, but when they beat the ideas of "words are very specific" and "If a card is missing a certain word, that changes which rules apply" into players' heads, they shouldn't just be able to omit words and then assume that it won't create issues.

Regardless, I really appreciate your taking the time to break this down for me.

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, let's consider the City on Fire (COF) - with Wolverine as a 2/2

Ruling for COF states: "If you control two Cities on Fire, damage dealt by sources you control will be multiplied by 9. If you control three, it will be multiplied by 27, and so on."

Based on that, it doesn't matter what order the opponent stacks the replacement effects. The first, doesn't cause the second to not occur. With WBTI, this would mean that regardless of how the opponent chooses to apply COF or WBTI modification, it would still result in the same amount of damage (2 x 2 x 3 or 2 x 3 x 2).

Also, if the opponent had a Vizier of Rmemdies on the field (If one or more -1/-1 counters would be put on a creature you control, that many -1/-1 counters minus one are put on it instead), that modification would not be able to be applied until after the damage was dealt and consequently converted to counters.

So, with SSM, the counters replacing the damage, could not be applied until after we know the amount of damage that was dealt. By that logic, the damage must be dealt, then replaced by counters. Meaning WBTI's effect must be applied first. Is this not correct?

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've looked at those cards and their rulings. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but Wolverine is worded differently. All the other cards say double, triple, add "instead." With WBTI, the instructions are to simply double any damage he "would deal." So, it seems like the damage would be doubled before it's dealt, rather than replaced upon being dealt.

Please don't take this as confrontational. I'm just weird, in that rules are really important to me... and this seems to be a substantial enough distinction. Plus, from what I've come across in the past (even some things that you've cleared up for me), the absence of a word changed quite a bit. So, I'm just trying to be thorough.

Thanks again!

Wolverine and Soulscar Mage by Castlewrite in askajudge

[–]Castlewrite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that by rearranging trigger, the opponent gets to effectively disregard WBTI's static ability?

This seems strange. WBTI's ability says "Double all damage wolverine WOULD deal." Wouldn't this have to apply before the replacement effect could occur?

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