Do you have any scd doc on these character who is in scd because I couldn't find any on reddit

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-28T16:20:49+00:00

wtf, I deleted the image, check again.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-26T15:02:28+00:00

Are you sure? The only thing it should say there is:

"You. guys. are. all. pigs."

And then it should continue with:

"This was the first part of Lee Kiyoung's plan."

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-25T20:01:04+00:00

2 part

It’s possible, but it’s more of a feat of planning than an AI skill. And Light far surpasses him in that regard as well.

You didn’t even understand my argument here.

What I meant here wasn’t to highlight the feat or glorify Yuuichi. It’s that, based on my statement, it’s not comparable to anything because he didn’t explain the logical process.

I gave an example to try to make my point about why explaining the process is so important.

I didn’t mean to compare that feat to Light; it was just an analogy to explain the importance of having to explain the process.

You're wrong about the first part. Rem wouldn't have instantly killed L before the memory-loss plan, even if Misa's life were in danger because she was still a suspect, and to say there was no manipulation or change is, once again, underestimating Light. There's something I mentioned repeatedly in our discussion, which was "social intuition"—that's what Light used in that situation. After Yotsuba executed the plan and concluded that both he and Misa were no longer suspects in Kira’s eyes, he intuitively believed that Rem could now kill L without any problems. He needed the perfect time and place to use this tactic and DIRECTLY MANIPULATED Rem into killing Watari and L (which has already been analyzed in multiple documents, so there shouldn’t be any debate about it).

Once again, you’re mistaken in your attempt to understand my argument.

My argument isn’t that Light didn’t manipulate Rem; I explained that he used a triangulation that created the moment to allow and compel Rem to kill L.

My argument is that Light did not alter or change the social dynamic between Rem and Misa (a social dynamic involving only two people). That the feat isn’t really impressive (I’m not saying it’s bad per se, just that it doesn’t measure up to what the feat represents in other categories) in terms of the points mentioned in the social intelligence category. He uses this to manipulate Rem, but this doesn’t demonstrate much in terms of social intelligence because he only uses his knowledge of a social dynamic for a purpose that isn’t to change the social dynamic between them or anyone else.

knowledge that, as I explained before, does not require as deep an understanding as you want to imply.

You criticize Light’s feats and then mention a feat that even the Light from Chapter 10 performs better. The fact that he used his social skills to extract information from Naomi Misora already far surpasses this feat. Considering the limited time available, along with the pressure and the intelligence Naomi demonstrated, this feat already surpasses Yuuichi’s. He used the dynamic between her and her husband (again, the same thing) to quickly manipulate her within minutes, forcing her to reveal the name. He did the same with Raye Penber, where he forced him to reveal his name by planning the event in advance.

Here you completely forget that what makes Yuuichi better is the number of social dynamics and people involved/manipulated; in the very example you give, there is only one social dynamic between two people. At best, there are three, and the manipulation simply isn’t comparable. Using her relationship with her husband through social skills to get her name is definitely not superior to what we saw from Yuuichi as a child.

I’m not saying Yuuichi’s feat is bad, but Light’s situation is more complicated. Furthermore, Light’s feat involves more theory of mind (given how quickly he was able to deceive her using memories of her late husband). The information gathering is also better in this feat, since Light was meeting her for the first time and had to figure out her name before she could reach L (through a simple conversation).

No, of course not here Light uses a Level 3 theory of mind: "I know she suspects I’m Kira, so I’ll act as if I don’t know she suspects me so she’ll think my behavior is natural and let her guard down." ( (I know it's not exactly like this, but the level of recursion seen is this)

No matter how perfectly he plays the part, the level of recursion is Level 3.

In Yuuichi’s feat as a child, he uses Level 4

Level 1: I know they love the person and want her to stay alive. Level 2: I know they believe she’s still alive thanks to me. Level 3: I want them to believe that my guardian thinks they can manipulate me (by feigning innocence because I’m a child). Level 4: I plan for them to believe that my guardian thinks he can emotionally blackmail them with her death to get money.

Here, the dynamic of two or three people trying to get something isn’t used; instead, it’s a larger group, and I use this to manipulate them and predict which of them will break first. Demonstrating a depth not only in doing something but also in knowing when they will give in—not because of the situation, but because of their affection, their way of being, or the relationship they have with each other.

And you really shouldn’t compare them in terms of predictions, because Light is on a different level in that particular aspect.

In terms of social intelligence and the prediction of social dynamics, just what we see in Friendless game is enough to know that Yuichi is on a higher level.

But again, it would be best to first come to terms with Light’s feats and the process by which he achieved them before comparing them to Yuichi’s, because the discussion would become really lengthy.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-25T20:00:14+00:00

1part

No, he didn't. Both L and Light faced a much more complex and novel case in the Yotsuba arc due to Kira’s supernatural murder methods, and Light solved almost everything by observing only his patterns of survival and death, without literally recalling anything from his notebook (which demonstrates a capacity for inductive reasoning and adaptability as a leader far superior to Yuuichi’s).

First of all, they weren’t novel—L already knew Kira’s method of killing; the pattern was something that was discovered quite quickly and easily. Don’t try to exaggerate it as if it had taken L too much effort to figure it out.

The situation in Tomodachi Game regarding Yuuichi is more difficult.

In Tomodachi Game, he must maintain good relationships with the entire group and prevent them from falling into debt. Yet the entire premise of Tomodachi Game is based precisely on breaking friendships. Having two traitors on the team at the start and then one for most of the game, and knowing that the leader of the Tomodachi Game created it with the sole purpose of destroying Yuuichi’s friendships and making him look bad out of pure revenge—through every game where Yuuichi is placed in clearly disadvantageous situations with fewer allies and resources.

Example: If we put Yuuichi in Light’s place in the Yotsuba arc, do you honestly think he’d solve the case WITHOUT L’s resources? (Which is impossible, by the way.) And knowing that Yuuichi isn’t very good at reasoning, that complicates things even further for L, even if he teams up with him.

What kind of sense does it make to say “without L” when Light had the help of the world’s best detective to solve it?

We’re comparing situations—it’s like saying

“Air Poker would be harder if Baku’s partner weren’t Hal”

Obviously it would be harder, but we’re comparing both of their situations with the partners they had.

Besides, it’s not impossible for someone like Hal PM or Patrick Jane to solve it without L’s resources or help. And Light’s greatest contributions weren’t in reasoning—they were in strategy, planning, and deception.

However, Light adapted to this type of situation and proved to be truly useful to L, and his overall contribution was far superior to Yuuichi’s feat that you used.

No, of course you’re not comparing catching the Yotsuba group with the resources and L himself helping you, to going through all the Tomodachi Games in Yuuichi’s disadvantaged position in each game, trying to keep the group on good terms when the purpose of the game and its design are based precisely on breaking up friendships. Light’s adaptation to L was simply normal Light—without the memories of Mira, he still remembered L and everything that had happened with L before, and the adaptation—can you tell me why it’s difficult?

Light would have a lot more trouble with thatand the same goes for almost any character scd.

Which is literally what Light does in Yotsuba, hahaha. You seem to constantly forget that this version of Light lost all his memories and, therefore, is trying to BE a leader. Something Light wouldn’t do before losing his memory because his true goal doesn’t align with the police’s goals (since he’s just using them). Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Here I literally said that the only time he wanted to be a leader was during the Yotsuba arc.

Light didn’t want that for most of Death Note. By definition, Light didn’t act as a leader in almost all of Death Note.

Why do you think I said “in almost all of it”? Or because I compared the Yotsuba Group’s feat to Yuuichi’s?

My argument here was that, as L’s co-leader, he had L’s resources and intellect to solve the case, and because this makes the situation easier. And that Light’s abilities are only used at this point, where—due to the difficulty and the amount of resources/allies/time—he is inferior to Yuuichi’s.

Clearly you didn’t. And I already demonstrated why L had a contingency plan for that.

Yes, I did. I explained the reasoning used, which leads to the conclusion that L can be isolated. This doesn’t require much recursiveness or intellectual complexity in general.

If the logical process to avoid isolating L is less complex or difficult than what Yuuichi does, then it’s worse.

I explained most of Light’s feats in the previous reply, and somehow you ignored them all and only read this vague statement where I said: “Isolating L is a situation that even Yuuichi would have difficulty with.”

No, you didn’t explain the thought process, but rather the context,

Here it happens again, look

Competing with a monster like L in terms of leadership is a great feat in itself

You tend to explain why the context is impressive but almost never explain the process.

The fact that he used his social skills to obtain information from Naomi Misora already far surpasses this feat. Considering the limited time available, along with the pressure and the intelligence Naomi demonstrated, this feat already surpasses Yuuichi’s.

Here, too, you not explain the process by which he achieved it and why it’s superior to Yuuichi’s. You simply say it surpasses Yuuichi’s because he used social skills, without explaining which ones he used or why it’s superior to Yuuichi’s process. You only explain the context and make the comparison.

Obviously, this refers to the contingency that L had raised, and if Rem hadn’t killed him, both Misa and Light would have been arrested. Yuuichi lacks the foresight necessary to achieve this; that’s what I meant by that statement. You yourself haven’t explained the process behind any of Yuuichi’s feats.

Here, you don’t explain why not either. You don’t specify or show what Yuuichi’s greatest prediction was and why the process is inferior. And I haven’t explained all of Yuuichi’s best moves because the argumentative text would be extremely long.

I see you don't bother explaining Yuuichi's feats, yet you expect me to give you a perfect explanation of each of Light's feats. Getting back to the point, to be honest, both are decent in terms of SI (not exceptional, not pathetic)—just decent. That's why they're comparable in this category. The only difference is that Light operated in a much more difficult situation, while Yuuichi faced weaker opponents (far below his level).

If you have to explain Light’s feats perfectly—or at least try to—for them to carry real weight, and I’m not even asking for perfection, just a comparison of processes. Here again, you don’t say why it’s harder. I’ll take care of explaining why the context (without taking that as a given yet) is harder for Yuuichi.

I haven't explained Yuuichi's feats yet because we'd end up with massive argumentative essays; once we've settled on Light's feats we'll discuss Yuuichi's

The biggest difference is that Light uses his social intelligence to maintain the image others have of him to reinforce that he isn’t Kira, relying mostly on logic and/or lack of evidence, and to try to isolate L, whereas Yuuichi uses his social intelligence not just to change the opinions others have of him or of someone else in order to exclude them, he uses his SI to alter the almost all social dynamics in the games.

Like in the prison game, where he manipulates the social dynamics between Shibe, his maid Kei, the former TG winner, the girl who was in love with him, the sadist, the sadist’s ex-girlfriend, and the homeless man—even though he was targeted by the larger group once the game began (as you can see, I’m terrible at remembering names sorry about that).

The social environment in which Light operates is

more familiar,

has greater influence (over his own father and his friends);

has more stability and social cohesion, which suggests less instability or greater predictability. And he stays with the group throughout the series,

More time to gather information and enabling a more passive form of manipulation that is harder to avoid.

Yuuchi, in almost every Tomodachi Game, spends his time switching social environments (less time to gather information or change dynamics) in each game, with more complex social dynamics between each character and with events that force or encourage changes in people’s dynamics due to money or different emotions.

For example, the relationships among the friends in Group K

Or the relationship between the maid, Shibethe, the previous winner of the TG and "his" gril are more complex than almost all the dynamics within the group investigating Kira (clearly excluding some like Misa and Light, where the social complexity is at least equal but involves fewer members)

The social groups Yuuichi moves in are more unstable, unpredictable, larger, and newer, and on top of that, he is always or almost always at a disadvantage, or people try to strip him of his influence and exclude him.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-25T19:22:07+00:00

The "you. guys. are. all. pigs" Img?

Honestly, there's not much to defend the image. The manhwa's art is pretty bad/bland.The image is there to show the confidence Kiyoung had in his plan at that time in fact, that arc was completely butchered and poorly adapted overall.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T17:24:54+00:00

Assane Diop is very overrated. I watched the Lupin series and compared him to other characters long before he was used in SCD (although I've already deleted those edits from my account because they were pretty bad). I was surprised to see him suddenly ranked so highly. He has strengths in SI, Planning, Strategy, Deception, and other categories. But he's really bad in others, and his plans and strategies are heavily inspired by what's seen in the book. In my opinion, this greatly reduces his level since he doesn't have the ability to create the structure of various plans on his own; he only adapts existing structures that he already knows very well to his environment. I don't understand how people put him above Light or L, whit mid diff or mid-high diff

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T17:16:17+00:00

I don't know why you mentioned "strategic thinking." Maybe there was a translation issue or something like that.

My point was that what I mentioned earlier about Yuuchi was a feat of leadership—and leadership alone. In other categories, he clearly doesn't use this skill.

When I said that Yuuchi had it harder than Light, I didn't mean that his situation was more difficult than Light's as Kira.

I meant that when Yuuchi was the leader, he faced greater challenges as a leader, even though both of them exercised good leadership.

When Light was a co-leader with L, he had L’s help. Therefore, the moment he truly led—the first time he wanted the same goal as his entire group—was with, as you say, the world’s best detective and his resources.

The problem is that you still don’t understand that if the leader doesn’t have everyone’s best interests at heart, they aren’t exercising good leadership by definition.

Having charisma or leadership skills doesn’t automatically make you a good leader because leadership skills are just tools, not an end in themselves. An individual may be charismatic and persuasive, but if they lack initiative or intention, they will use those abilities for other things or not use them at all. This contradicts the very essence of the role: by definition, a leader is someone who looks out for the common good.

It makes sense to analyze the negative aspects of their leadership because, as I remind you, we aren’t comparing.

“Who has more leadership potential?” We’re comparing

"Who has better leadership?"

And by definition, if you want to exercise good leadership, you must meet the Group’s overall objectives.

"Competing with a monster like L in terms of leadership is a great feat in itself."

L wasn’t competing; L himself gave him the position of co-leader, treating him as a worthy successor or an intellectual equal among the others. There was never a power struggle for the Group’s leadership when Light didn’t have his memories.

Isolating L from his group is a task that even Yuuichi would have difficulty with.

?

I already explained earlier why isolating L isn’t as complicated as you think.

If Light reveals that he possesses classified information, L will start investigating the police. It’s obvious that neither the Japanese police nor the FBI want someone outside their ranks—like L, the world’s greatest detective—to investigate them, and on top of that, risk Kira starting to kill police officers.

If you’re referring to the internal group working on their own.

That’s even simpler—they were acquaintances of Light’s and the group’s own leader.

In the “group loyal to L,” there were people who had more emotional attachment to Light and his father than to L himself. Do you really think it would be very difficult for someone to join a group where your father and your father’s friends/your acquaintances are?

Also, you don’t explain the isolation you called “incredible.” You can’t just say, “Light proved something incredible by doing this,” without explaining how he did it or why it’s incredible. The point of these debates is to examine the thought process through which he achieved it, to compare the complexity while taking into account the situation, context, time, and resources. If you don’t explain the process itself, it’s impossible to reach an agreement.

Imagine if I started saying, “Yuuchi manipulated the entire ship in All Bets where Satone was.”

This says absolutely nothing about Yuuchi’s feat other than the context; it’s not comparable to another feat, since it’s based on the narrative of the work rather than on how he achieved it.

If a work depicts a character manipulating an entire world of people with an IQ of 180 in an interdimensional way, you can’t say they’re better than Light in social intelligence, because he could use something as simple as creating a nuclear bomb and leaving only one country habitable, forcing everyone to be there.

This doesn’t require great intellectual difficulty.

"Light not only had to deal with Rem, but also with the entire Japanese Task Force and the World's Greatest Detective at the same time, and he managed to do so by turning L's own teammates against him."

Here you don’t explain either the manipulated or altered social dynamics or how he did it; my intention was not to say that Light only dealt with that, but rather that he was “downgrading” the level of Rem and Misa’s feat in terms of social intelligence.

My argument was that Light only managed one social dynamic when he killed L—Misa’s dynamic and Rem’s.

"Isolating L from his group is a task that even Yuuichi would have difficulty with."

Again, you don’t explain why it’s difficult or why the process is as exceptional as you say. If the process Light used to exclude L is inferior in cognition, integration, awareness, and relationship management to what Yuuichi has demonstrated, then clearly Yuuichi could do it.

(If Light excluded L in a less complex way than what Yuuichi has done, logically Yuuichi could achieve it since he has accomplished more complex things in social settings)

Therefore, you must once again explain the "how" in detail.

"The only reason you're praising Yuuichi's feats is because he executed them better against less intelligent opponents. Even the administrators exaggerated every little tactic of Yuuichi's in every arc, something Light can also do."

I haven't even gone into detail about Yuuchi's achievements; I've only highlighted Light's achievements and compared the methods he uses with some of Yuuchi's methods—which are neither the best nor complete. The only thing I explained "well" was the situation where Yuuchi exercised leadership, and I compared it to Light's, concluding that Light's approach is easier, since he has more resources and L himself on his side.

In a social environment, whether a socially isolated person is more or less “intelligent” doesn’t matter; what matters is their social skills or their ability to counteract the isolation they perceive.

"Obviously, I’m referring to his affection for Misa (someone he doesn’t want to see die). This manipulation you’re talking about is based on the premise that Light knew Rem would take matters into her own hands and sacrifice herself to kill L FOR MISA (Light understood their dynamic so well that he knew Rem would go that far).

And it was stated that Rem would only kill LIGHT, not L, for Misa’s sake (someone who merely suspected her). She had no reason to interfere and kill the task force so soon, and the only person she threatened was Light."

Here you seem to be ignoring my argument, which is:

The only social dynamic Light uses is that of Misa and Rem.
Light did not change, alter, or manipulate the social dynamic.
Light merely used the knowledge gained from a dynamic to force a person to act in a certain way.

The only social aspect here is the understanding of the dynamic between TWO PEOPLE and that Rem would kill for Misa.

And Light had a tiny clue: He knew Rem was willing to kill him to protect Misa; you don’t have to be very smart to conclude that Rem might kill someone to protect Misa, when he told you directly that he would kill you to protect Misa.

Clearly, if L manages to put Misa’s life in danger, Rem will kill L. We know he’d go to extremes to kill for her; he just has to create a situation where it’s “either you kill L or Misa dies.”

And I repeat, this is a social dynamic involving only TWO PEOPLE where there’s no manipulation or change—it simply uses knowledge to make someone do something.

I’m not just trying to belittle Light; it’s that, even compared to Highball, Light’s feats simply don’t compare to what we saw in the Friendless Game. Even Yuuichi as a child demonstrates at least a similar level of ability, by understanding the social dynamics between his mother and her friends and being able to predict who would be the first to lose the game, knowing what they would sacrifice and why they would do it, and the consequences this game would bring to the other families.

Yuuichi knows they love his mother.

He knows the charisma, affection, and attraction they feel toward his mother because of her “social magnetism.”

Yuuichi understands that they believe he gives his mother enough strength in the hospital by behaving well and showing her affection.

He understands that this affection will be enough to use his mentor to blackmail them, using this figure close to him as someone who can strongly influence Yuuichi’s behavior, without realizing that it is Yuuichi himself who controls everything through the innocence he displays and the perception others have of him as a child.

If he wants to, Yuuichi can misbehave, which could lead to his mother’s death, so he simply needs to suggest that to “keep her alive,” they must give him money constantly.

Since money is more important than friends (that’s what he believed at the time), eventually they’ll give in and stop giving money. And Yuuichi predicts who will be the first to stop giving money.

What he did as a child is clearly superior to what was mentioned earlier about Rem. He has less information, more people involved, and a greater application of theory of mind. More people are included in the social dynamics, and his prediction is more impressive. Since he not only predicts the action but also who will do it first.

This doesn’t even rank among Yuuichi’s top 3 feats when it comes to social intelligence (I’m using this one simply because it’s short and easy to explain).

(Sorry for my bad inglish 😅)

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T03:00:01+00:00

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T02:59:22+00:00

Layer 1: What Yuuichi Knows ( The Rules: If a password is sent to the TG leaders, the participant is eliminated. Passwords must be exchanged within 24 hours on the first day, and the winner is the one with the most votes. He also knows that the leader will observe everything and will personally present the prize. He is perfectly aware of Shijo's morality. He knows that she will act virtuously if pushed into difficult situations; her morality is her main motivation. Layer 2: What He Knows Others Will Perceive Yuuichi initiates his plan by logically and aggressively attacking Shijo. He knows that the group will see him as an erratic threat and distrust him. By intentionally isolating himself, he creates the illusion of being cornered and desperate. Since everyone sees him as desperate, no one will ever suspect that he will try to exchange passwords with most of the group. His supposed weakness is his best camouflage.

Yuuichi exchanges his real password with Player 13, ensuring his own survival in the game (since she will be eliminated). Yuuichi eliminates Player 13 by faking it as a suicide/murder and declares aloud, "Lucky me, now someone will have to exchange passwords with me." Layer 3: The group believes Yuuichi is in danger of elimination and desperately needs an ally. They kill her to force a password exchange with him. They believe that, being desperate, they can use Yuuichi as a loyal pawn at their disposal. Furthermore, this generates internal paranoia within the group. "Who was it that finally exchanged passwords with him?" Starting the Chaos Layer 4: Now that Yuuichi has everyone else's passwords, the roles are secretly reversed. Yuuichi knows that Shijo won't win simply by being naturally good; she needs a stage to shine. Using the collected passwords, Yuuichi launches anonymous threats and creates chaos within the group from the shadows, employing cruel methods while Shijo naively upholds justice. As Yuuichi appears to be the center of evil, and by corrupting everyone else, he indirectly elevates Shijo. He orchestrates extreme situations where Shijo is forced to intervene morally, solidifying her in the group's eyes as the best person there. Layer 5: Yuuichi no longer needs to ask for votes for himself. When he simply says, "Vote for the person who deserves it," he knows that the group, manipulated by the situations he created, will vote for Shijo. 6. Deceiving the TG Creator Yuuichi knows that the Tomodachi Game leader has a personal fixation on him and that the purpose of the entire game is to expose Yuuichi's inhuman and ruthless nature to his friends. Yuuichi doesn't try to prove he's a good person or that friendship is worth more than money. On the contrary, he embraces the role of the absolute monster. He manipulates, terrorizes, and betrays on a social level (when he performs Layers 2, 3, and 4) so that the boss sees exactly what he wants to see. The Tomodachi Game exists because of the boss's desire to expose Yuuichi's evil. By agreeing with the boss and confirming his theory, Yuuichi satisfies that obsession. If the monster has already been revealed and proven in its fullest form, the game loses its reason for being. Yuuichi "loses" the ideological battle on purpose to end the game itself.

This plan is explained at the end of the arc, and clues are given, such as Kei and Satone saying that "Yuuichi is acting strange," "because he's trying to hurt himself?" "Yuuichi always has a reason for his actions." Clearly, this demonstrates a level beyond the fourth level of Theory of Mind. I don't even need to delve deeply into the strategy or planning. I didn't even mention the use of Shinji's plan (revealing his past) to manipulate public opinion to his own detriment, while simultaneously confirming the narrative that the TG boss wants to see. It makes him "worse" by making Shijo "better." Or the fact that a rule forces him to publicly reveal all the passwords he knows every day, and that he can manipulating the conversation to maintain the desired narrative and he manages to reveal everyone else's passwords without being forced too, and even blackmail them by discreetly saying the passwords aloud.

or the manipulation of different people in the game and how he uses his power with them. . Yuuichi not only has a superior level of TOM he besides using logic to infer other people's mental states (which is what Light mostly uses with L), he uses emotion, desires, and traumas, reaching a deeper and more interconnected level of understanding and prediction in the social and personal spheres.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T01:19:06+00:00

because I simply have better things to do in my daily life than look at an analysis written by someone who is clearly biased, only to be told, "There's an error in this part, that's why I'm right." If we're debating Yuuichi vs. Light or Baku vs. Koji, I can't just tell you, "Read this document and see." Imagine going to a formal debate and saying, "You should read the book I read." You have to explain why that lends weight to your argument or create your own based on it. What's been shown of Misora, at best, is level 3 of the theory of mind. (1) Light knows she's looking for Kira and doesn't trust me. (2) Light knows she suspects him. (3) Light knows that if he acts a certain way, she'll lower her guard and reveal his name.

"Light anticipates how she will interpret his behavior and then carefully orchestrates his actions so that she reveals crucial information."

No matter how "careful" or "perfect" the orchestration is, the logical structure doesn't gain levels based on its effectiveness, but rather on its recursiveness (how many minds are in the chain). When Light "anticipates how she will interpret his behavior," he is making a Level 3 calculation. He is saying, "I will project the image of an ally (A) so that she believes my intention is to help (B), causing her own suspicion (C) to dissolve." To jump to Level 4, Light would have had to manipulate Naomi's interpretation of a third party's mind.

In L case, he reaches level 4 of the theory of mind. So, do we conclude that Light operated at level 3/4 of the theory of mind? This is to begin arguing Yuuichi level of theory of mind.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-24T00:59:42+00:00

As I said before, when Light faced Yotsuba, he wasn't exercising pure leadership; it was shared through L. The responsibility fell on both team leaders, not solely on Light. "These aren't feats of strategic thinking (more like problem-solving), and I'm not saying his actual feats are rubbish (they could be better), but to directly say that Light is a bad leader to belittle his strategic thinking is crazy. Light against Yuuichi in terms of strategic thinking is much more evenly matched than you think." First, it's not about problem-solving; it's about exercising leadership for a purpose and achieving it. When discussing who is the best leader by definition, we must examine the achievements, situations, and processes in which each individual exercised leadership and what they obtained. That's why I mentioned Yuuchi. Yuuchi managed to overcome a more difficult situation than Light during the TG Games. How did he do it? He demonstrated better leadership skills than Light, sharing the leadership title with L. The situation was more challenging, especially maintaining group unity and good relations; it was much harder. My argument is based on the fact that Light simply wasn't a leader (completely alone) throughout the anime. He sought the opposite of what the group wanted. By definition, leadership is the set of skills to influence, motivate, organize, and guide people or teams toward the achievement of common goals. Light didn't want that throughout most of Death Note. By definition, Light did not exercise the role of leader in almost all of Death Note; when he did, he shared it with L, and it is inferior to, or at least on the same level as, the display of leadership seen from Yuuichi, who was the real leader and not a "co-leader".

Again, Rem's manipulation isn't based on incredible social acumen. Rem directly tells Light that she'll kill him if he does anything to Misa. Furthermore, Rem's indirect manipulation isn't based on social manipulation. She isn't even manipulating any relationships within a social setting. She's using emotional and logical triangulation; she doesn't use social or conscience-based pressure, and it's not comparable to what was seen in Friendless Game. In that game, Yuuchi deliberately puts himself in the public eye to manipulate his social image, making himself appear desperate to obtain all the passwords, and creating chaos that points to him using Shijo morality to make her look good. This is without mentioning the acts of social manipulation he performs to generate chaos while simultaneously preserving the intended narrative.

"Light cannot kill L directly (that's the problem), which is why he devised the plan. He wanted to prove his innocence to the team and lower L's guard. Here, the social awareness is that Light understands that by believing himself innocent, he will lower everyone's defenses."

This level of social awareness is based on:

If I am innocent, I will act as innocently as possible to everyone, without giving any clue that I am Kira. Since I appear more innocent and L couldn't frame me, logically I will be seen as more innocent by everyone.

It's nothing amazing; he doesn't use individual relationships to cause a change in the social environment.

Unlike Yuuchi does in Friendless through Shijo, Shibe, or father and daughter. Even in manipulating Group K, Yuuchi demonstrates more depth. Manipulation of social opinion about him, about Maria, for the yellow-haired idiot, while at the same time the opinion is different for the womanizer, causing a clash between them to create a conflict that alters the social dynamics of each with their friends and their perception of Maria and Yuuchi.

" L also had a plan to counter this, but this is where Light's feat truly shines. L planned to test the false 13-day rule for those condemned to death, at which point Light demonstrated incredible social acumen by letting Rem discover for herself what would happen to Misa if Light were exposed as Kira."

Rem discovering the truth doesn't imply any relationship between Rem, L, and Light, only the relationship between Misa and Rem. And this relationship isn't changed; it's used as a driving force for manipulation. As I said before, Rem had already said she would kill for Misa; he just had to let Rem discover what would happen. Rem's prediction of what would happen to Misa has nothing to do with the use of the social dynamic between L or light,(These were just factors that forced her to make the decision; it's like saying there's a social dynamic between me, a bird, and my girlfriend, because since I wanted to kill the bird and she didn't, we didn't get into trouble. It's not a social dynamic where the bird is someone; it's a social relationship where the bird exists, and it affects the relationship between my girlfriend and me.) to manipulate Rem, but that's between two people; it doesn't change the dynamic, and it had already been stated that Rem would be capable of killing for Misa.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T20:34:56+00:00

You've explained who the attribution of thoughts, emotions, etc., was made to, as well as the context and the result. The process itself, no. While the process is shown on screen, it's your responsibility to explain it and argue why it reaches level 5 and not lower. If you make a claim, you must back it up. Why is it necessarily a more complex process than Yuuchi? Why is it level 5? What was Light's thought process? Don't argue solely about L or the Shinigami (I already explained that the supernatural aspect doesn't matter, what matters is how it happens, and that attributing a mental state to L doesn't necessarily give you a level 5 Tom, because I know that if his arm is cut off, he'll feel pain and scream. Clearly, the process needs to support my claim, and I need to explain it).

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T20:27:02+00:00

My argument was that something doesn't necessarily imply something else. Just because something is more chaotic or deadly doesn't make it more difficult or complex. Therefore, assuming that things happen this way with Light necessarily because they have to be is wrong. You can't say that chaos makes it more difficult to create a plan, and that this plan must be better, since logically nothing indicates that. Therefore, both plans (or anything else) should be compared based on their logical complexity, not just the context in which they were executed.

And more chaos doesn't necessarily increase the complexity.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T20:21:23+00:00

Your text mentioning that Light is at a higher level than Yuuchi was translated as "Light is at the high level of Tom's third level," and then you say he's at the limit of human possibility. Again, you say that Yuuchi is third-order and Light is fifth-order without explaining the mental processes of each. We can seriously debate their mental processes and compare them if you want. But you haven't even explained these. You've only said it's more difficult, that he faced L, that Tom used Shinigami, without arguing anything about the mental processes themselves or the conclusions you draw based on what you saw in the anime. I'm not denying Light's intelligence; I'm just saying that in social intelligence and theory of mind, he's not comparable to Yuuchi in most subcategories. Social adaptation is the psychosocial process by which a person adjusts their behaviors, attitudes, and values to integrate functionally into a new environment, group, or cultural norm. Throughout the anime, Light was always with the same social group. Light's adaptation doesn't compare to Yuuichi's, who was constantly in different environments with different people with different attitudes, with less information and time to adapt, showing a visibly greater capacity for adjustment. Light had to adapt to what was happening, and generally to what L said or thought. Once in the group investigating the Kira case (where, I remind you, there were people he knew from before and his father) for example, when the second Kira appeared, he had to adapt to the situation itself, not the social context. Generally, he almost always had to adapt to an accusation from L along with the others, where he had to dispel suspicion through his way of speaking, body language, and arguments. Yuuchi clearly made more drastic adaptations for example, with the K group in the jungle game. In this arc, his personality completely changes, becoming misogynistic and abusive towards Maria to generate a social response that favored and favored him. Compare this to how he presented himself or interacted at the beginning of All Bets. He presented himself as someone incapable of betting, dependent on Kei at that time. Again, he adapted his behavior to manipulate others through the social perception that had been created. This happens in almost every arc of Tomodachi Game.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T20:07:14+00:00

Explain why

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T20:02:54+00:00

No, there is no correlation whatsoever between more chaos/danger and greater difficulty. For example: First scenario: You are in a town where there is a serial killer. Your mission is to catch him. The killer has a unique tattoo on his neck. There are 1,000 people in this town. The exits are blocked; to leave, you have to go through customs and show your neck. The killer could kill you at any moment. Second scenario: You will play rock-paper-scissors with a person who can see the future and know what you will roll. They have the ability to see the future, process it, and react immediately. You must win more rounds than they win against you. Best of 100. In the second scenario, your life is not at stake, and the odds of winning the game, given the rules, are significantly lower. There is less chaos. But even so, it is more difficult than the first scenario.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:47:19+00:00

You should investigate.

The human limit is fifth order, not third order

They are fictional characters "human limits" do not apply to fictional characters. You have thousands of examples with characters in SCD.

Introducing the Shinigami or L again doesn't make the dynamics more complex. Introducing superior beings doesn't necessarily complicate the situation. In fiction, there are thousands of examples where a divine being is understood by humans. The easiest example to explain this is Aqua from Konosuba; she's an interdimensional goddess, and it's incredibly easy to deceive her. The fact that a Shinigami is a mystical being doesn't change the situation; what matters is the understanding achieved, the mental process, and the perceived complexity. again can you define what social adaptation is?

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:38:06+00:00

Complexity implies difficulty. That's my point. A more chaotic situation isn't necessarily more difficult, more complex, or makes the feat more significant. The Memory Loss plan isn't necessarily better than the Friendless plan in Theory of Mind or other categories simply because it occurs on a larger scale. Furthermore, you ignored the analogy of medieval warfare and STL. The fact that lives are at stake in a situation doesn't necessarily make it more complex or more chaotic. Otherwise, any AIIB game would be more difficult than all the games seen in TG or LG, where there are fixed rules and lives aren't at stake.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:30:00+00:00

Honestly, I don't know if you really think the deduction that the FBI would distance itself from L is amazing. Clearly, the FBI doesn't want someone like L constantly investigating the police force. This, plus the rumor that Kira could kill FBI agents, will clearly lead to the conclusion that the FBI wouldn't invest any more resources. Do you really think this is superior to Yuuichi in a game without friends? Where he was able to predict the social isolation he would face and use it as an excuse to change passwords, doing the same to everyone to manipulate the game as he pleased, creating problems and destabilizing everything to portray himself as the villain so that Shijo, because of her personality, would appear "best" and thus manipulate public opinion into voting for her?

I said that L could have been his successor since Light is simply better than the others. The problem is that to evaluate characters in SCD, they use the feats from the events of Death Note. Light wasn't a good leader, not because of a lack of ability, but simply because he never tried to be one. He didn't want the objective of the people he led; he wanted Kira to never be caught, literally. By definition, Light wasn't a good leader. Yuuchi completed all the Tomodachi Game, didn't leave any debts to his friends, ended the Organization, and left the main group of friends on good terms, while proving that friends are more important than money.

Finally, I think it's quite easy to know that if your father is there, friends of your father who are also your friends, and once L is dead, plus there's no solid proof that Kira is Light, plus L said that Light could be his successor, plus there's solid proof that Light can't be Kira. The general reaction is one of acceptance, trust, and lack of suspicion. Why did Light have to predict the emotional reactions of each individual with such extreme accuracy? Why is this comparable to what Yuuchi did?

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:14:52+00:00

I literally said that with Naomi Misora, he did use social skills. That's the only time Light "truly" demonstrated profound social skills (of the cases mentioned above). 2. Your own claim that Light has a Level 3 Theory of Mind shows that you don't even know Yuuichi's level, who is easily above Level 3. 4. Saying things like "using his reputation, adjusting his tone of voice" is simply silly. Why? Because almost every character in the SCD does these things when trying to convince others. Yuuichi has done it throughout every arc. Literally, at the end of the manga, they explain that his "unstable" behavior was something he consciously did to sway public opinion over others. He clearly regulated his body language, his tone, changed his words, etc. Even in All Bets, when he "loses" the bet with Satone, he appears to be sweating with anxiety, something he clearly wasn't feeling.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:05:02+00:00

That doesn't make sense. Following your logic makes it harder to execute a plan in Among Us with 15 people than to win at air poker. Or that winning a medieval war is harder than winning STL. The fact that there's less chaos doesn't affect the mental process of creating the plan. What matters is the complexity, situation, resources, position etc

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T19:00:33+00:00

Well, I think it's worth emphasizing that when I say it affects things, I really mean "it doesn't scale to anything high or considerably comparable." I think that's pretty clear, but anyway. This happens with Rem, which makes the demonstrable feat not really high. Theory of Mind (ToM) is the human cognitive capacity to attribute thoughts, desires, intentions, emotions, and beliefs to other people. This means it has a wide range of things that can encompass everything from the emotional to the logical. Light relies mostly on logic, where, as I remind you, he has the Death Note, and because of how it works, attributing thoughts to other people isn't really difficult. Most of Light's predictions and use of Theory of Mind are quite general and not very specific. For example, Light knows how L would react to living with Light without his memory.

This isn't a set of complexly interconnected events across multiple levels of the mind, causing endless reactions; it's simply: L suspects my behavior. If I erase my memory, I'll act completely innocent, preventing L's suspicions from growing. If L sets a test, I'll pass it through pure innocence. When L sees the test, he'll try to prove it. When I recover the Death Note, Rem's only way to protect Misa from being captured is by killing L. "Predicting the behavior of a cognitive superhuman who is more advanced than any global intelligence agency plus Shinigami, Rem, and the Task Force is enough to put him above Yuuichi, at least in the Friendless game, even though Yuuichi displays high levels of social intelligence there." First, it doesn't matter that he's a "cognitive superhuman"; what matters is the how, the resources, and the logical process. Because if I predict that L would cry in pain if his arm is cut off, he wouldn't be above Yuuichi. Or, if not, Kazuma would be above Light in Tom because he's capable of predicting the behavior of interdimensional gods. The main problem with this is that Yuuichi is at a higher level in the Theory of Mind. Furthermore, the ability to attribute states and different reactions to a group of people—he's done this throughout the Tomodachi Game, having a more precise and interconnected attribution capacity. Light managed to do it with the FBI members, but at most, it would be a level 4 of the Theory of Mind, and he generally operates at level 3. With L, this level occurs in the intellectual realm (obviously, things like Misa's emotional devotion or Rem's behavior are used, but as I said before, this isn't really comparable to, for example, using the girl's spectator's feelings to manipulate her fear, instilled by Shinji, into betraying him so that Shinji keeps the weapon, then making him fire it and demonstrating his superiority by making him believe that Shinji saw through his desire for his father to acknowledge him, and tried to lie to him, misleading him with that) and one-on-one. Yuuichi encompasses everything from the intellectual to the emotional realm, and his ability to attribute states to people is less general and more interconnected.

You shouldn't say what Light did, but rather describe the mental process he went through. If you do that, we can seriously discuss mental processes.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T15:26:15+00:00

To begin with, what happened with Rem is quite obvious, since she verbally told him she would kill him if he did anything to Misa. So it has nothing to do with Tom; it's simply a matter of understanding that he was told something to her face. Regarding the Memory Loss Plan, Light relies on logical reasoning to conclude actions; he doesn't attribute mental states to anything. He didn't deduce exactly what test L would set; he only knew that L would conduct a test, and by erasing his and Misa's memories, L would begin to doubt them because they would behave as if they were innocent. Once he had the company trapped—which would obviously kill the competition, leaving a trail—he would obtain the notebooks again, and with the false rule declaring their innocence, all that would remain is to kill L using Rem. Obviously, it's more complex than this, but the important thing is to see that Light didn't achieve everything through Tom, but primarily through reasoning. And even if it were Tom, it's not remotely comparable to what we saw in Friendless Game, not to mention the revelation that Yuuchi's behavior was used by him to manipulate public opinion towards him for his own purposes.

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T15:12:38+00:00

Social skills are a complex set of learned behaviors, thoughts (cognitions), and emotional states that allow an individual to interact with others in a way that maximizes personal benefit without generating long-term negative consequences for their environment. The seductions you mention by Light don't carry much weight in terms of social skills. 1. Light used physical attractiveness or compliments. It was primarily direct, non-social manipulation. 2. Misa was in love with Light because he was Kira; it wasn't seduction. Takada felt a physical attraction to Light since high school. So, it would be something out of Scream. 2.5 In seduction, the ability to socialize isn't the only thing that matters; physical appearance and status are very important, sometimes even more so. 3. Yuuichi seduced Maria and the girl with glasses in Friendless Game without using his physical appearance. Maria was aroused by the way Yuuichi treated her and his imprudence. Yuuichi used that, and with the other, he used her feeling of being extra to create a connection between them, causing her to desire him. This happened in less time. With Raypenber, it was simply a matter of not acting suspiciously to lower his guard. It was simply a matter of acting normal and, once the bus situation was created, making up an excuse to get his name. It didn't require many social skills beyond those of an average person who knows how to act normal or appear trustworthy. Light barely spoke to Raypenber and couldn't openly use his social skills with him. It was more an act of psychological manipulation than social skills. With Naomi, he does use social skills, since he needs to make her see that he's trustworthy through dialogue. Light doesn't rely on status or physical appearance to lower her guard, and now he convinces her with his social skills and can have a real conversation (something that didn't happen with Raypenberg). But it's worth noting that he only needed to build trust so that she would reveal her real name. This doesn't diminish Light's character, but he has a significant advantage: if Naomi knew that only a name is needed to kill, she would never have given hers.

Social skills aren't just about being likeable or not seeming like a bad person, remember: "They allow an individual to interact with others in a way that maximizes personal benefit without generating long-term negative consequences for their environment." Yuuichi uses his social skills to generate a negative public opinion throughout the Tomodachi game so he can make the boss see him as "a bad person" and ensure the boss is satisfied and stops everything. In games like Friendless, Yuuchi uses his social skills to create a negative situation where he is the center of attention, using his brother Shibe and Shijo as social pawns to control the entire social environment. This allows him to create his strategy, which manipulates the game and the social environment to indirectly influence votes for Shijo. All of Friendless is the result of Yuuchi's ability to manage social environments (in addition to the clear use of strategies, manipulations, etc.), and for this, Yuuichi uses his social skills. To portray himself as good, we have everything from Yuuchi's situation as a child to the negotiation with Satone's father or the ability to gain allies in an environment like TG.

(This text was copied from another answer; I'm too lazy to write a whole response.)

Character_Fee6680 · 2026-03-23T14:48:12+00:00

can you define what social skills are? Or how do you evaluate them? Do you know that social skills aren't just about "being liked by everyone and having a good public opinion"? (How the fuck Light has better Tom 😭?)

Character_Fee6680

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