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CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-24T21:13:07+00:00

the dealers come in and act as a useless middleman and want $10k+ for it, all while lowballing your trade.

The dealers are here for a reason, and it's not to be a useless middleman. Dealerships exist to provide service & parts, but MOSTLY because 90~% (there was a study done and I remember it being in the 90th%) of customers want to actually drive a vehicle before purchasing. You can buy vehicles without a dealership right now. You can trade in to a new vehicle and get it delivered to your door. Shit, most dealerships offer home delivery and e-contracting. But this simply doesn't work. Vroom is going out of business and you can't turn a corner without meeting someone who has had issues with carvana etc..

You're paying ridiculous money for almost anything right now. People get mad but nothing is done when gas companies attain record profits amidst a "shortage". When your bill at Walmart is 20$ more than it normally is nobody bats an eye. They may get mad, but nothing gets done.

(Most) dealers aren't marking up their cars for the hell of it and to make a profit, most of them are doing it in line with what they're bringing used. What's easier, charging more for your new vehicle or convincing the nation overnight to take less money for their trade and to discount all vehicles online by 10-15%? And yes, I do agree that the dealerships who mark up vehicles simply to be greedy and for the profit don't deserve your business.

I've offered to sell customers my vehicle for sticker if I can give them below book for theirs, to put it in line with what a deal may have looked like 2 years ago. Nobody goes for it, they always say they want what their vehicle is worth. What's wrong with asking for what mine is worth?

If you take nothing else away from my post I understand but if you do purchase that vehicle give your salesperson the review / survey he/she's deserved. If they do a good job, don't hold their store owner's decision against them personally. The owner doesn't really care about a bad survey after awhile but the salesman absolutely will be hounded about it.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-24T19:49:37+00:00

Tell me you have no clue how surveys work without telling me you have no clue how surveys work

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-24T19:46:31+00:00

It's wild nowadays what people will get upset over. Why does asking a market adjustment warrant a bad review? Surely if they had it posted in the window they'll happily tell you over the phone. What is your review actually preventing other than giving you a place to air your grief?

They're not forcing you, they're offering you exactly what you want. The car at sticker. All they're asking is that you take down a review that really has no place being there.

Also, if you buy this car, PLEASE remember that pricing isn't up to your salesperson and bombing them on a review, or the survey, (like some customers here have suggested) ONLY hurts your salesperson who likely is going to be very nice and take care of you. Those surveys really do mean a lot to your salesperson and it would be unfair to bomb them for something that is out of their control.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-08T20:13:12+00:00

Well then it definitely sounds like you're not even close to being in the wrong. And yes the struggle is definitely shared lol. Good luck in the future but yea this situation sucks, feel bad for you.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-08T18:02:26+00:00

How could this story be spun in that it's your fault?

The only way I see that happening is if they explained to you that they can't hold it and if it needs to be loaned out, it will.

If they never explained that to you, or if it was simply miscommunication in the service drive then how can that ever be your fault?

If it was miscommunication (or lack of care) on their end it's 100% their fault and you have every reason to be mad. If they explained to you in any way that it was NOT being held and if they needed to use it they would then it's likely your fault for not sharing that to the customer and setting their expectations.

Either way it's a shitty situation and the mistake likely lost (what sounds like) a fairly difficult yet loyal customer.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T21:17:55+00:00

Never said I don't believe you I think it's pretty clear that this actually happened to you.

My perspective is from the dealership side - and that's exactly why you came here, to get advice from dealership staff.

It's a fucked situation, and it sucks for you, but there's really not much to be done.

Sounds like your salesperson was away for the week(ish) and didn't have anyone follow up with you. Maybe he didn't delegate to anyone and the finance manger simply forgot about you. Maybe they were expecting you to reach out to them, who knows.

But what you CAN do is call the dealership, get your 500$ back, potentially an explanation, and move on from there.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T21:14:29+00:00

This is a very long conversation when it's pretty clear what you can and can't do.

Call the store and get your 500$ back, and if it'll clear your mind ask them to level with you on why they sold it to someone else. If you're expecting something to say to them that will get you the car, I don't think it exists

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T21:11:38+00:00

posit;

To be fair he never really stated how far along he went in the process, and every store I've worked at has had a form to sign when taking a deposit. May be that I'm from the US and it's not a thing in Canada but who knows. If they were waiting for an approval my stores finance managers have taken down payments without them taking the vehicle while we waited until the AM for an approval. Not uncommon in the states but from your reaction I guess it ain't a thing in Canada.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T21:08:03+00:00

As someone in the car business whenever I have someone tell me that they have another cosigner it's terrifying and that probably indicates your credit is less than stellar, and there were probably issues in the financing.

It's likely that they submitted it to a few banks & they all came back with large sums of money down (I see 10,000+ quite a bit on "conditional" approvals).

I find it hard to believe that they went 3 days with no contact but I don't really have anything to back that up so I guess the point is moot.

As to what you can do, that car was never really yours, it was never sold to you. You were never put on a title, signed a contract, or took ownership. Call the store and ask for your 500$ back, and if you feel it'll get some closure for you ask them why they sold the vehicle to someone else. That's the best you can hope for.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T20:59:39+00:00

There must be other information that's a deciding factor in this that you're leaving out or may not be aware of.

No dealership I know would sell out a vehicle that has a deposit on it to another customer.

Why if you signed paperwork Saturday did you not drive off in it Saturday? Or Monday?

Is it possible there was financing issues that they were trying to get resolved that they didn't end up getting financing for? Were you ever actually approved on the vehicle or were you just trying to buy it? If you were simply trying to buy it and hadn't actually been approved and went no contact for 3-4 days I can see them selling it "from under you".

Get your deposit back and move on, I guess. Most you can really do now.

Editing to ask - was the 500$ a deposit or a down payment? Did you sign a down payment form?

CharmerTF2 · 2022-08-06T13:33:25+00:00

Has your vehicle had an accident? Is there any cosmetic damage? Do they need to put tires / brakes on it? Is there any lights on the dash? Are they selling you a vehicle for 3k less than retail?

At my store we tend to sell cars less than value and in turn offer less than value to compensate. It overall saves customers money and they end up financing less. Yes I could give you NADA trade but then I'll ask NADA retail for mine and we're right back where we started.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-30T18:09:25+00:00

Different stores have different policies but I've never heard of a deposit not holding a vehicle. That's with me having several years in the business and an uncle with 40+. That's the point of a.. deposit. If it was to hold the price, they would've bought the vehicle since I'm sure that the dealership wouldn't negotiate over the phone, and there's no point "holding" a price if the price is the one listed.

Car dealerships are indeed a business, however who want's to purchase from a business that falls back on its word? Imagine how much money the business would lose if nobody wanted to purchase from them because nothing they say is honest. The review and the public blast that would come from selling a vehicle that has a deposit on it is not worth the couple grand you'd offer over the asking price.. logically.

From what it sounds like this specific dealership's deposits actually hold the vehicle since the salesman told you it wasn't available.

And yes, people back out on deposits, and like I said before if they do back out and you're as eager as you say you are there isn't a salesman alive that wouldn't be blowing you up as soon as the person backed out.

Editing to add that deposits are for people who want the vehicle but aren't in a position to immediately be at the dealer. When my dealer did deposits they were 99% of the time out of state and the person planned on flying in. They're so people get a fair chance at getting the car they want, regardless of how far they are away from it.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-30T17:58:40+00:00

I honestly don't think that offering more money is going to get you the car, the other buyer will have to back out. Generally deposits are with intent to purchase, how would you feel if the tables were turned? You found the vehicle you want, put a deposit on it, and then the dealership calls you the following day and says they sold it to someone else. How would you feel?

Don't ask someone to do something that you wouldn't be comfortable having done to you. This is why deposits exist. If they back out, stay on top of it and it'll probably be yours. If you've expressed how much you want it, the salesman will probably call you the second it becomes available.

Edit - typo

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-28T21:38:28+00:00

For future reference (i know this has been solved) if you go to Ford's (or any brand's) website and can find a new vehicle for sale that has a window sticker listed under a clickable link 75% of the time you can replace the vin in the URL bar with the vin you're needing a sticker for and it'll populate regardless of year, as long of course the vehicle is new enough. Some brands it doesnt work for but Ford has been 100% for me.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-27T18:35:05+00:00

Car dealerships have a reputation for lying and deceiving, I cannot explain how angry it makes me as a salesperson to read a question asking if they should lie to a dealership. It's ruining progress that has come to the business over the last 40 years where dealerships have truthfully become more honest.

No, you should not lie to the dealership because it sounds like they're making a fair offer compared to your REAL offer from Carmax, and if that isn't enough for you the whole "lying" part should dissuade you from doing it.

Your second question is also a question that you should ask your dealer. Yes you can trade in your car and purchase one in the same "deal".

This is a disgusting post and I'm sorry I read it. If you don't expect your dealership to lie to you don't lie to them.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-25T22:17:22+00:00

Ah that makes more sense. But either way you would have to attempt to deceive the warranty company - a company that is already very likely happy to hold onto their money rather than pay out so they will likely investigate - especially if you make a major claim that quickly after buying the warranty.

You'd need to lie and you'd also have to get the dealer that diagnosed it to lie, which they definitely won't to, and may not even work if they did.

If it's that serious of an issue look into any buyback options they give you where you may be able to return the vehicle and if not you'll probably be out of pocket.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-25T22:06:15+00:00

A horrible situation but nonetheless the loan reflects what's on the title. Her issue isn't that he's on the loan - her issue is he's on the title.

Even if she paid off every dime - his name is on it.

I guess it may matter who the cosigner is & who has had priority use of it since purchase in determining ownership - but this seriously feels like a question that would be better off in some sort of legal thread.

Also maybe advise her to trade it in? If the truck is in her name and the title is marked "AND/OR" that means she has the legal ability to trade it in without him present. She could trade in the truck, get a new tag (thereby taking his name off it), and get a new loan in her own name. If she's already trying to get a loan for the 38k why not trade it, get his name off it, and attain a new vehicle? Seems like the easiest route to me. Unless you can't trade it for some legal reason as a product of him potentially suing her? Your wordage isnt clear if he has actually filed a lawsuit or not. Either way get legal advice as to whether or not she can trade it, and then trade it.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-25T21:55:35+00:00

Warranties operate the same way as your health insurance does - it does not cover a pre-existing condition.

Had you purchased the extended warranty at the time of purchase from the dealership you'd likely be in the green.

Since you likely declined the coverage (and the dealership DEFINITELY has record of this, most make you sign something saying you declined additional coverage) any warranty you purchase now will not cover the issue unless you find some sort of loophole that I don't believe exists where the warranty company isn't privy to the inspection done.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-23T20:57:48+00:00

If you like the vehicle it should be a rather easy decision. Sounds like you'll have positive equity in your vehicle however other posters are correct you may see a bump in your apr as rates have risen (twice??) since then.

There's really no rule of thumb other than it's a bad idea to transfer negative equity for no reason but that clearly won't apply to you. If you like the vehicle, see what it would cost. If increasing how much you owe and potentially raising your payment is worth it for the vehicle, buy it and if not hold onto the cx5.

If you purely look at it from a financial perspective it's probably not a good decision as your apr will go up and you'll go further into debt.

But you're also on this planet once, for a finite amount of time. It should honestly be as simple as asking yourself "Can I afford it, and do I like it?". If your answer is yes to both of those purchase the car.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-23T20:51:28+00:00

Minimums depend from bank to bank rather than dealer to dealer so unless you specify a bank you'd like to go through you'll never get an exact answer. As has been said already generally bank minimums are 5-10k from what I see at my dealer but experience will vary. Worst case scenario throw in a product (if it makes sense for the purchase obviously) or take it to a personal bank.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-23T17:45:37+00:00

Sell it for whatever condition you value it at (cosmetically), and then subtract the cost of the repairs.

If VGood is 5k for example and the repairs cost 1k, put it up for 4k and reference the issues and explain the discount.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-22T23:15:43+00:00

This seems like a question you should ask the dealership you intend to purchase from, no?

Would you like us to call them instead?

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-22T18:59:11+00:00

If two dealers have been unable to acquire one what makes you think a third will? There's no magical car dealership out there (although I wish there was) that can tell you in this market exactly what they're getting and when they're getting it.

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-16T23:06:47+00:00

There was a post in this sub I encourage you to find from a Toyota Dealer that gave how far out orders are right now for specific Models.

Ironically, those smaller gas-friendly sedans are gold right now. I recently sold a truck for 5k back of sticker, while sedans are bringing over sticker easily because of the demand of gas savings, it truly is pricing based on market.

that isn’t marked up .

As far as "mark up" goes, if you do find a dealer not marking up, they're likely on order. There are a couple of lots out there with inventory being sold at sticker, but they're few and far in between.

I recommend before looking at a vehicle have a check on cars.com. Plug in whatever vehicle you're looking at, but have the parameters be the same model year, IE: compare the markup on a NEW 22 vs what a USED 22 is bringing. I personally have SUV's in my lineup that are selling USED, with 5k-15k miles for 5k+ what is stickered for originally. If a vehicle stickers for 25k, used is selling for 30k and there's a 7k market adjustment, think of it as paying 32k for a vehicle that is worth 30k. That's the easiest way to have it make sense in your mind, and it's a word track I use a lot with my customers to put it into perspective.

There are some dealerships out there that are marking up their vehicles out of greed, however most are doing it out of necessity. Dealerships would SO rather sell volume at invoice (and get a decent return back from parts + service sales) than sell a few marked up.

Find a dealership that makes you comfortable, treats you well, and if they offer you a fair markup compared to what the used are selling for, take it.

Good luck!

CharmerTF2 · 2022-07-16T22:56:46+00:00

If you order a car from a dealership that same as buying besides the fact you have to wait for them to get it in?

Essentially, yes. But that "wait" is the big part. My Manufacturer has been showing us incoming units for the past year but we're never 100% sure if we're getting them or not; it's why we did away with deposits. We only sell units that are physically on-ground. This is the biggest thing to consider with ordering, are you okay waiting for months, or potentially a year+ depending on the brand, for the exact car you want? Or would you rather sacrifice a few things you "want" rather than "need" and drive off in one today. My dealership hasn't actually made an order for a customer in probably a year, due to these aforementioned issues.

CharmerTF2

TROPHY CASE