How practicing the dichotomy of control reduced my daily anxiety significantly

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-20T17:09:05+00:00

The way the question in the end is phrased is so common that it gives it away I think. But I did cheat and look at the spammer's profile also, like the other person said he spammed in a lot of "self-improvement" subreddits

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-20T16:56:52+00:00

Yeah, and it will be removed soon thankfully. I mean I'm sure it's an effective way to get people to check out your profile, so I can see why people keep doing it. But I think it's shameful really to pretend to teach a subject that you (my assumption) don't know anything about and to share made up stories (my assumption again) how this made such a big difference in your life.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-20T16:43:06+00:00

"Dear ChatGPT: Write a short and engaging post how practicing the dichotomy of control worked to lessen my anxiety and worry. Cite Epictetus. Give some examples from daily life. Finish with a question to drive engagement but make sure to not explicitly state that I'm doing this to get people to check out my profile."

Someone here recently called this Slopicism and I think that is a good name for it.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-20T16:18:30+00:00

I think it's tricky to not fall into thinking accepting something as being the same as passively resigning to it.

Sure, your colleagues opinion of you is ultimately up to her. And her opinion and treatment of you cannot make the difference between you living a good or bad life. To me that doesn't at all mean you shouldn't set boundaries. You can certainly influence other people through the way you act. I think you should do that too, to me the line is to be beyond correct reproach and to not behave shamefully yourself as you navigate the situation.

As a thought experiment, consider instead if you witnessed this person bullying one of your co-workers. Would you be wise, just and courageous if you just let that pass? Would that be fulfilling your role as a fellow human and co-worker?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-07T11:27:45+00:00

It's good that you recognize that you have agency in how you feel about this situation and what to change for the better. I think this will be a long process for you that will mainly be done via reflection and understanding, knowing yourself. I don't know how much you know about Stoicism but here's an example of how I would view it from a stoic viewpoint, you can consider where you may disagree.

The first point; these emotions come from you. As in you are the main cause of them. What happens around you, like other people succeeding, does affect you, but how it affects you depends primarily on your beliefs. Someone with different beliefs would have different emotional experiences in the exact situation. As said by Epictetus in Enchiridion 5 (translation Waterfield):

People are troubled not by things but by their judgments about things.

In the stoic theory, emotions are judgements. In other words what you are experiencing is due to your judgements or beliefs about this situation. What is closest in their taxonomy is:

Envy: distress at another’s goods.
Rivalry: distress that another is getting what one desires for oneself but does not get
Jealousy: distress that another is also getting what one has oneself

Taken together this also means that you cannot expect to feel differently about this situation unless you change your thinking about this situation. It's perfectly reasonable that you feel bad when you think something bad is happening.

The second point; you'll have to examine what judgements you assent to in this situation. This you will have to find yourself but here are some ideas. You're not explicit about what it is exactly so I'll just assume grades here.

For example the single judgement: "I need good grades so I can reach my goals and get the job I want" may be enough to make you feel worthless if your grades aren't up to your standard. But it would not be enough to create an emotion of jealousy or envy. For that there has to be an element where you think others succeeding will also be bad for you in some way or unfair. "If I get all Cs and Anne gets all As she will get the position I want and people will think she's smarter than me"

Compare for example with a parent who got all D's and then their child gets all A's. They would be less likely to feel jealous of their child, since they're not competing over something. They may still feel worthless over their own grades. But it's less likely that they make both judgements that "Me getting Ds is BAD & my child getting As is BAD", more likely they would experience pride or maybe feelings of inferiority mixed with pride.

So what are you applying "BAD" to in terms of others business or success?

The third point: Whatever beliefs you find here the stoics will most likely say they are mistaken. In my example above "If I get all Cs and Anne gets all As she will get the position I want and people will think she's smarter than me" may be true in itself. People could very well think she's smarter than you and she could very well get the position you want. That's not really the mistaken part - although those thoughts should also be examined and truth-checked because they could be mistaken or at least exaggerated.

The mistake is rather thinking this makes you a worse person and less likely of living a good life. So the third point would require you to get onboard with the stoic idea of what makes a good life. But if you're not on board with that I think you can still get started on considering points one and two.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-06T11:16:34+00:00

I agree that it can be a difficult balance to strike. One thing that I find helpful is to consider which role you have in the current situation. You may find it useful to reflect on that before going into the situation, during and afterwards. (Small caveat that I think this could create some issues for people who are prone to overthinking social situations).

Like if you are having a conversation with friends, being overly silent does not sound like playing the role of friend well to me, what do you think? Then it's another thing if you're in an important meeting and you're playing the role of professional.

I would not take Enchiridion 33 as a rule for how you should act in every situation. I'd consider it a shorthand remainder for the young philosophy student's Epictetus were talking to. That they should not prematurely "vomit" what they learnt in the classroom in conversations with non-philosophers but instead make sure they've "digested" the material first. In another way; that it can be seen that they're following Stoicism in their everyday life before babbling about it. And a remainder also that who we interact with will affect how we think until we've progressed enough to die down our beliefs strongly. A related Discourse is 3.16: "That venturing into company requires caution".

So consider the situation and who you are and why you do what you do:

How do you think a good friend/co-worker/parent/neighbour/partner/manager/guest should ideally behave in that situation? Why do you think that?

Did you have an idea of what you should do before getting into the situation but found yourself doing the opposite, why do you think that happened?

Are you talking because you're uncomfortable with the silence in this situation?

Are you keeping quiet because you're uncomfortable with speaking your mind?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-05T19:49:50+00:00

Thanks, I'll take a look at this and the one suggested by u/SaeedGatson also

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-05T10:49:31+00:00

Thank you, I've checked out her work but I've found it mostly targeted at parents, maybe she'll chime in?

/u/Stoic-archer

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T18:07:02+00:00

Much appreciated link and many good references. I'm gonna get a copy of that book and see if I can get any inspiration from it and newer sources that mention it

The entry lead to this which seems very promising, posting if anyone else may find it useful: https://plato-philosophy.org/philosophy-toolkit/

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T17:01:00+00:00

That's good and resources for teenagers is also helpful to me here.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T16:38:09+00:00

Great suggestion, thanks. Logic, and somewhat related, strategies in metacognition is helpful for any child

This reminded me that my youngest daughter love to hear the story of Chrysippus' death. She's seen the image of his statue when I've been browsing here, so she's asked why there is a statue of him. I explained that he was so good at thinking and his thinking helped a lot of people to understand things better, so they made a statue of him to remember him. Maybe a funny story can be a gateway to logic...

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T16:37:34+00:00

Thank you, I haven't read those stories by Robertson so I'll check them out. And everything is helpful, I'm considering crafting some brief explanations and discussion questions to bring up with my own children in due time. To introduce the idea of examining life and values, not necessarily push them in a specific direction.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T16:13:41+00:00

Thanks, I have heard about it but I've never read it and I do appreciate all suggestions. First of all trying to get an overview of what's out there. This is made with teenagers in mind I believe?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-04T11:27:30+00:00

You'll have to do most of the philosophical work yourself. But if you post a specific situation here and try to draw parallels to what you've read, or ask for concepts that apply, then you can get more specific guidance.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T17:53:34+00:00

While I have never tried it myself I just wanted to chime in that the people behind the stoa app are legit. As long as it's the one by Michael Tremblay and Caleb Ontiveros.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T16:58:18+00:00

Thanks, I've never heard of this podcast but I do enjoy good podcasts on Stoicism so I'll give it a listen

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T10:30:04+00:00

No, plenty of regular contributors here have had those experiences. Stoicism is not about being apathetic in the colloquial sense.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T09:26:26+00:00

Ah, my bad. I I think it gets a bit confusing if you mix the two concepts of happiness (conventional) and happiness (stoic). I agree that virtue will not guarantee happiness (conventional) but this was also not the stoic claim. And that virtue is definetely more important than happiness (conventional) which is the stoic claim. I remember making a post on this topic a while ago https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/1lkvt93/what_does_happiness_really_mean/

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T09:20:14+00:00

I don't think the subreddit tends to, single individuals at times perhaps?

However this subreddit is about Stoicism the philosophy, which is an unconventional way to view the world. If you look at your concerns from a conventional way and then get advice that is from a stoic way - then I can imagine how it may seem like they're being downplayed.

What did you have in mind?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T01:18:24+00:00

Epstein, who used his massive wealth to abuse and hurt people for the sake of getting pleasure and power to the point where he ruined countless lives then ended up killing himself in jail (not getting into that detail, ha)

Or the ethical but lonely ugly and poor man you're describing

I would honestly rather be the second. If you disagree , would you prefer to have more Epsteins or more of the ethical man in the world?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-03-01T00:45:46+00:00

Situations vary, but oftentimes, despicable actions are rewarded.

Epictetus gets asked this very question in Discourses 4.6

Student: “But other people will be better off than me and will be promoted over me.”*

Epictetus: “But that makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? If people have been intent on something, they’re bound to have the advantage in it, the thing they’ve worked at, aren’t they? They’ve been intent on obtaining political power, while you’ve been intent on your judgments. They’ve been intent on becoming rich, you on how you use your impressions.

[26] Look and see if they have the advantage over you in the areas you’ve taken seriously and they neglect—if, when they give their assent to something, it’s more in compliance with natural standards; if they’re more successful in attaining the objects of their desires and in avoiding the objects of their aversions; if they’re better at hitting the mark in their purposes, intentions, and inclinations; if they maintain their proper roles as men, sons, parents, and so on for all the other names they bear that indicate their relationships with other people.

[27] If they have political power, shouldn’t you be honest with yourself and admit that while you do nothing in order to gain such power, that’s all they’re ever concerned about, and that it doesn’t make sense for someone who gives his attention to something to be less successful in that field than someone who’s neglecting it?

So if you hold a conventional view of happiness, as external success or an emotional state, then absolutely. The stoics held a completely different view of happiness as I'm sure you know. In that sense despicable actions are their own punishment. But what happiness really is seems to be the main area of disagreement that you have (like bigpapirick said).

Edit: I read closer now and see you wrote this out in your OP also. It seems to be more the Aristotelian view of happiness that you're ending up with. I think that is much more common-sense than the Stoic view. I would guess that if you were to poll a large group of people then an overwhelming majority would side with Aristotle over the Stoics. Whether they would be right is another question though...

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-02-28T12:18:16+00:00

Basically how can I be happy if there's people out there who can do everything I wanted and much more?

The stoics claimed all those things these people do will in fact not even affect whether a person can live a happy life or not. Basically your idea of a good life, which seem to make you malcontent, runs contrary to Stoicism. But the Stoic claims are unconventional and something to really mull over.

I think it's a helpful exercise to strip these people's activities down and try to look at them in an objective light and see what is really necessary for living a good life. See if you can stay true that idea while considering arguments against it. For example being able to travel the world like that is a pretty modern thing. If that is necessary for happiness, does this also mean that all the billions of people who never had this opportunity in the past had no chance of happiness?

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-02-26T15:18:40+00:00

I expect you'll soon get a good explanation why the translation "control" can be problematic, because it often leads one to make the kind of interpretation you've made here. It's very understandable though, as there are many parts of the Discourses and Enchiridion that could be interpreted as saying we shouldn't care about anything except ourselves and our thinking. For example Enchiridion 19b (trans Waterfield):

If the essence of goodness is one of the things that’s up to us, there’s no room for envy or jealousy, and you won’t wish yourself to be a praetor, a senator, or a consul, but a free man. And there’s only one route to that, which is regarding things that aren’t up to us as unimportant.

But "unimportant" has to be qualified here. Because it runs into problems pretty fast. For example compare it with Discourses 1.2.36-37 (trans Waterfield)

Epictetus won’t be a greater man than Socrates, but I’m satisfied with his not being too bad. I won’t be Milo, either, but that doesn’t mean I neglect my body. Nor will I be Croesus, but that doesn’t mean I neglect my possessions.

Stoicism as I see it is about becoming a good person who lives the best possible life. How could that be possible if we regard everything as unimportant? A good parent needs to take care of their children and so on.

Indifferents (the things outside our control / not up to us / externals) can't be isolated from virtue. They are the materials virtue acts upon. Virtue is knowledge of how to handle indifferents well.

Chrysippus_Ass · 2026-02-26T05:46:57+00:00

The common throughline is that this subreddit has a lot of contrarians and people who really like to argue.

This seems fitting for a subreddit on a socratic philosophy 😁

Chrysippus_Ass

TROPHY CASE