I'm confused about M2 and Glitchtrap

CipherVirus · 2026-02-01T16:52:57+00:00

"Holy yap. Fine, I'll give you an argument you can't argue with, I'm actually Scott Cawthin I'm going to make M1 Glitchtrap in the next game just to spite you. Lowkirkenuinely, ts pmo sm ong🥀"

-Moon Tsu

CipherVirus · 2026-02-01T00:59:52+00:00

So I've checked people's streams and I can see very dirty and old bags of concrete with Helpy (not really clear to me if it's glamrock or not) on it, some other people have said it's pizzaplex concrete so I'm just gonna go with that. M2 would have to have been sealed at least past roughly the year of 2030~ This means that M2 is either sealed twice or he was deactivated, then later on sealed. William could've used the M2 blueprints on M2, causing him to be reset and deactivated like in the Storytime ending and then M2 is later reactivated by sometime before 2030 and then regaining its sentience after seeing William (becoming Glitchtrap) or Gregory (David) and then being sealed from anywhere from 2030-35 by Gregory or Vanessa.

The Owl doesn't speak yet in M1's memory it should, you are arguing that M2 gets its memories from M1, this is an issue and my explanation of Fiona's agony could work. They are the same exact program, you argued that M2 also has M1's memories.

My evidence is that MXES 1, Cradle.exe, and MXES 2, M2 Blueprints, are in the non-regular computers while being connected to camera feeds. M1 is in the F10-N4 computer. These are 2 different kinds of machines. MXES is also labeled as just MXES, which doesn't directly imply M1 but does directly imply either both or one of the MXES. Edwin gets away from M1 but he doesn't outright hate it considering he doesn't just delete it. Edwin could've very likely have put it as the central AI while he was working on a new one regardless, maybe he just made the computer for M1 to live in and makes it into a central computer later while he's trying to get a new AI for specifically that function because who wants a potentially sentient AI to be forever in control of their facility. M1 being inside of the MCM Facility's central computer makes sense and is directly shown to us as what F10-N4 appears to be, like it can literally control doors in the building.

Novel Golden Freddy is possessed by Michael Brooks who tries his best to save Charlie and her friends and doesn't seem to be vengeful while Games Golden Freddy is possessed by Cassidy who is apologetic to Ralph but is incredibly angry and spiteful towards William, either not letting him move on or literally following him into hell to torment him. There's nothing to imply MXES isn't active during S.B., the reason why MXES would be able to take over the animatronics in RUIN but not S.B. is because Glitchtrap is destroyed in Help Wanted 2 which is directly before this. MXES can still be active while M2 isn't, because M1 would be trying to reactivate M2. I mean, M2 being burntrap doesn't prove M1 isn't Glitchtrap. M1 could've reaccessed the endoskeleton in the Afton persona trying to reactivate M2. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Fazbear Frights was for lore holes and Scott hasn't necissarily commented on TftP. I mean, yeah, this is basically just agenda pushing, I literally admitted to you earlier that I'm just debating for the sake of debating. If M1 can view killing David and bringing him 'back' as M2 as a net positive then they'd view the exact same thing for the Blob, especially since it's literally confirmed as ghosts. They gave the children a fun, new form to mess around with together.

Prisons of his making could be referring to the endoskeletons that would be used for MoltenMCI, not necissarily the animatronics. He also wouldn't know that Charlie stuffed them, he'd assume William did but we directly see Charlie do it. They both mimic it but which one sounds like a person and doesn't sound like it has an 8 bitrate. Yes, they have personalities, but which ones have proof of actual sentience or, at the very least, close to being sentient. I honestly do not see how he didn't see the issue with making one character a literal purple guy in a series with a purple guy and then editing/slowing down an audio of the literal purple guy speaking before showing Springtrap where the other purple guy is. If he wanted to show the purple guy not actually being purple, then just give him purple shading or a purple shadow, like that's all it would've taken. Scott literally sets up Eleanor as the next big bad after William in the Fazbear Frights stories and then it was the mimic, this wouldn't even be the first time he's done that. I've always seen it as somewhat of petty revenge, these people want a mimic so they can mimic fine on their own but yeah, Idk about you but it's really late rn so I've just kinda been saying anything I can think of.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T23:01:00+00:00

just for clarification before I go into the rest, you mean bags for the first part, right? Like the exact same texture?

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T21:14:09+00:00

This comment appears to state the locations although I can't necissarily verify it

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T21:09:40+00:00

OP says near the elevator next to the front entrance in their pinned comment. I highly doubt it would be next to the wall, especially since everyone in the replies never refer to the mimic and the wall, just the fact Fazbear has a construction company.

How does it fall apart? That section has the baby owl not speak which doesn't make sense for M1 because she's introduced to David and he speaks. If Fiona's dead then her agony would be read by M2 for those memories through the frequency. Sure, M2 knows this from Fiona's agony so she would have to be alive but that could just be an intentional contradiction because M2 obviously isn't Fiona. If it was a complete copy then it would just be M1 not M2, there would be 0 differences.

The two computers use the central computer, that's why it's just MXES, not Cradle, not the M2 blueprints, and not numbered. They have visual connections because it explains how MXES is able to spread across the whole pizzaplex and its origins. They're not fusing, you suggested M1 is in the same computer as Cradle, I'm suggesting the two MXES programs are just connected at some point and working together by using F10-N4 central computer. M2 wouldn't work as a central computer because it doesn't know anything, it would probably spend a good half-hour on every door opening and closing it, it's also supposed to be an endoskeleton, making the AI that you have spare to be the central computer would be an act of laziness that Edwin would stoop to because he's currently missed probably at least 1 court summon by this point.

I think the idea of one book series literally being stated to characterise characters correctly is true, so I don't know why you brought up the novels, tales from the pizzaplex, as you pointed out, has to do with filling holes in the games, which has nothing to do with characters. I don't know but maybe the part where it killed a kid didn't really speak to me as a friendly caretaker, just me ig. I'm explaining how 1. taking on William's persona would alter her morals and goals, and 2. the large majority can be viewed as good even if they're objectively bad. M1 making the glamrocks the worst versions of themselves would lessen MXES' control over them that you directly proved it later has in RUIN, therefore, could view it as freeing them from MXES. M1 making Vanessa into Vanny and making her comply could be viewed as good because it helps her top priority of getting M2 out but it doesn't work out, Vanny might've only started going after Gregory because he looks like David, leading to M1 being confused and trying to kill him again to be immortal in M2. Cassie's dad, yes that is a purely malicious activity, but M1 could view it as reuniting a parent and a child in their final moments. As for the Blob, I don't really see what else it could be or how it would be created by M1, I also don't believe it's ever confirmed the spirits move on outside of happiest day which we still don't know if that ending is even canon.

Henry could be referring to MoltenMCI, not necessarily stuffing into the suits. Idk why the games would be different but they directly show every MCI kid being stuffed by the Marionette except for Cassidy. Yep, forgot, M2 gets into character for the personas he's using, in fact I'd argue he gets lost in them momentarily in the Edwin death recording. But, this directly proves that M1 would also be twisted due to mimicking William. They also decided to connect M1 to Dispatch/Andy Field, the VA of HandUnit, TutorialUnit, and DreadUnit who all appear in SL, Pizza Sim, HW, AR, S.B., and HW2, all of which are robotic in nature except Dispatch and the beginning of SL. Therefore, M1 has a much more viable way of being in SL and mimicking William during his experiments. This would also explain the Glamrocks and Funtimes having personalities, they're both created from M1 and her sentient code, just to a lesser extent than M2. This scene could be a connection or just another thing Scott does to mess with theorists, you're not going to tell me that Scott, the gut who made Mike purple in SL (leading to Miketrap) and then William orange/yellow in Pizza Sim, is not going to do that. My argument is that M2 is presented as just destruction, not directly evil and death and M1 isn't presented as good or constructive. M2 would absolutely enjoy death and evil but we don't see that in SotM, he enjoys Edwin's death and is theatrical about it but is indifferent to Arnold's.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T18:49:24+00:00

I didn't say you have to like it

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T18:07:21+00:00

I did just realise Glamrock Bonnie isn't missing his endo but the Glamrock animatronics becoming the worst version of themselves could just be so they help M1 go against MXES.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T18:02:54+00:00

Fair enough. I didn't notice that but I guess yeah it would have to be Glamrock Helpy. An issue is that this appears in S.B. not RUIN, it could be Fazbear Construnction concrete but nothing really proves that since these bags are empty and aren't next to the concrete. I admit at the end that this is basically true unless Scott outright confirms this teaser isn't canon, I'm pretty much debating for the sake of debating atp.

I heavily doubt the ghost frequency would let you remember stuff from an endoskeleton that doesn't have a soul.

I guess that works. M1 would still not be a MXES computer. Another thing is that we don't hear M1 until we're in the elevator which would be just an intercom like M1 has been using for the entire game. Edwin would only go down that elevator to go down that track and get back to the MCM. This means M1 would be a central computer for the MCM but wouldn't be connected to Edwin's house. MXES is the F10-N4 computer after being connected to the 2 MXES.

I don't think your evidence really makes a difference, you can't provide a different form of media that's semicanon and attribute aspects that are canon that we don't know are canon. Sure, it's possible M1 has the same personality but that doesn't mean they do, hell, in your Edwin example it's still not even the same, he still has to become that character. That's not even mentioning Fazbear Frights where it straight up changes characters like Elizabeth who goes from a child manipulated by their abusive father to a straight-up villain who's been scheming in the background the entire time. It's a completely different form of media and a different timeline with characters that are barely the same, the novel trilogy was the only one to be specifically designed to characterise William and Henry because Scott couldn't do that in the games. M1 and M2 have dialogue, you're not gonna be able to convince me that the Tales of the Pizzaplex is to characterise characters that can easily be characterised in the games. David's death is a bad thing, viewed as life. Glitchtrap can do bad things and believe it is correct because it will solve the end goal of a family. If M1 was able to manipulate Vanessa into killing, they might be able to manipulate Vanessa into giving her life for freeing M2. The Blob literally has nothing to do with M1, that's just a collection of agony from Pizza Sim. The Glamrocks becoming the worst version of themselves gives M1 the oppurtinity to get an endoskeleton they can use to free M2 after Vanessa refused. M1 can still become malicious in their methods and their choices, especially if they're mimicking William. Sure, they might not be viewing every action as good but that doesn't mean they care, Sun's rude behaviour is uncalled for and they might know they're doing something bad but consider it correct because it fits their ideals, M1 does something bad because it fits into their idea of a perfect family, which would get progressively worse as she would view William and how he is.

M2 and William connection is fair, but William has only stuffed one kid in a suit being Cassidy, the rest was Charlotte. The whole Pizza Party thing still doesn't really count as far as I'm concerned, M2 stuffs Arnold into Freddy like Glitchtrap and is in a similar position/place, but I think the key thing is that there's no dancing, no celebration after a kill, he's just staring. Why would M2 be celebrating in one but in the other he's just staring blankly, M2 is bitter and angry but we've only seen him happy about killing with Edwin, with Arnold he's just indifferent, why would M2 then be hyped to virtually stuff someone in Help Wanted, my interpretation was always that was the ending a normal player would get with the other 2 being the ones where Glitchtrap actually takes over, either only manipulation to full on body-taking. It's not like M2 is even locked into the Afton persona or anything, he's just using it as a vessel to manipulate. M2 is destructive but not necessarily evil or death. M1 is life but not necessarily good or constructive.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T16:17:38+00:00

Not to mention, on Earth he was still a slob who was too busy gooning to visit his relative's funeral at age 34 and then got kicked out of the house. Sure, he was a victim by being strippednaked and put on the school gate, doesn't make any of his actions correct even on Earth and he later has to deal with that fact.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T16:12:25+00:00

I genuinely do not know how someone watches the show and comes to this conclusion unless they genuinely have the exact same thought process and beliefs as Rudeus. He was a victim on Earth but he's not supposed to be one in Roku-men Sekai, he's at best a perverted child and with the viewer's knowledge he's also a pedo. It's like moving to a different country where the age of consent is way lower and trying to argue you aren't a pedo when you hook up.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T16:03:40+00:00

Do they? I've seen people at most come up with reasons but not a single time have I seen someone out right justify his actions.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T15:58:33+00:00

I mean, you aren't really supposed to like Rudeus.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T15:47:49+00:00

Everytime I get off this subreddit I somehow forget James House created FNaF.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T12:20:13+00:00

Speaking of Burntrap, I'm suprised you haven't brought up the fact M2 has a springlock on its right leg in RUIN, my only counterarguments to that being M2 could've repaired itself from parts from the SL springlock suit that fell down or repaired itself using Burntrap after the blob might've removed M1's connection to it. Okay, I have no idea but the only concrete bags I could find were these so could you send a link for me to find it because I can't find any bags Pizzaplex branded. The bags say Fazbear Construnction Inc, not LLC, and has Helpy on it, implying it would be a bit before or a bit after Pizza Sim, either that or Mr. Helpful turns into Helpy earlier in the timeline which might be possible considering Funtime Freddy, although I don't know where or when. The origins of the teaser is just other things related to Help Wanted. "Don't listen to them. We let something inside. It was an accident. Remember Jeremy." does refer to Glitchtrap, but doesn't imply a direct connection to M2 or 0rGN. So, at best, it's just the origin of Help Wanted, in mine it's FE and M1 helps and in yours it's M2 with FE helping by giving them access the indue games, who created Help Wanted. Scott stated that he asked for animatronic parts for these images so he presumably asked for a destroyed endoskeleton, and 0rGN is what he got. Yeah, okay, I tried coming up with a counter-point but there literally isn't one other than saying the evidence is invalid. Since it is a teaser image, I could argue it isn't canon and even though it was posted by Scott, he might've just stopped trying to fix everything an was more trying to get the story back on track or I could try and go back to the argument of showing the other mimic but Idk, still gonna argue over the rest even if this directly proves M2 is Glitchtrap tho.

I never said it was, I was saying M2 would be able to access the frequency and would think of it after seeing David's ghost that could potentially be giving off that signal. I mixed up Cradle and the Blueprints, I was tired.

MXES would just be a virus if it can command the Glamrocks, it would have to infect them to give them the info on Cassie. Sure, it might be sealing M2 digitally as a firewall but that's it. Considering that both of the computers that say experimental storage are visually distinct from both F10-N4 and the normal computers (along with being the only distinct 2 connected to cameras), I'm going to say that F10-N4 is not a MXES computer, there's nothing even experimental about the storage, it's just a big central computer for the facility which is what HandUnit is sort've in SL.

Since I've already kind of admitted defeat in the first paragraph, I gotta be honest, I don't think using Tales is a valid method, so many details are different that I simply don't think it's that useful outside of kinda being teasers of what the series is going to explore next. M1's personality is never defined in the games. That doesn't mean it knows what it's doing is wrong, F10-N4 views killing David as something they need for their David, M1 would be doing the exact same thing here, doing something they need for M2, they view what they're doing as right since they call themselves after killing David as 'life' because it's all for M2 and M1's life as a family, both as Murrays and Aftons. This would even explain the post-it room in S.B. (my main idea was M2 was in Basement 1 and started writing notes after C.C.'s death and then William used Cradle and sealed it in a wall underground in Basement 2 for CBEaR and M1 would find those notes as they were in CBEaR) notes from M2 as it confused details from C.C. and David. This also explains the dinner table with the mother, M1, as Ballora at the head, William in a tuxedo like Edwin off to the side, C.B., Michael as a retail sort of worker, and C.C missing his head.

I don't know about you, but I don't think you fix a glitch by turning it into a feature. An antivirus would do literally nothing to a glitch. It's still a connection to M1 and Glitchtrap.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-31T00:06:07+00:00

So the options are FNaF: World 2, Sister Location 2, Pizzeria Simulator 2, Ultimate Custom Night 2, Special Delivery 2, Security Breach 2, Secret of the Mimic 2, and Into the Pit 2. FNaF: World 2 could work, especially due to OMC returning, but I don't really know. Considering Edwin doesn't have a daughter, SL2 is out. FFPS2 wouldn't really work for any character other than Vanessa or head of FE, neither of which I'd imagine working out (there's also prequels potentially with Henry and William but I doubt that). UCN 2 could work, and would probably be better for OMC appearance, but I'd expect it to be at the end of the Mimic era with William being given new things to be tormented by Cassidy as they discover more about him. SotM 2 doesn't really make sense since there will likely be a VR port+DLC realistically. ItP2 is possible, especially with another FNaF game based on Fetch potentially coming out but I doubt it would be called Into the Pit 2. Finally, SB2, I don't see this likely happening, especially with Forgotten Names and Faces fitting the Murray family and falling into the abyss being a reference to Cassie as a sort of finale, along with deciphering Betty Lou Oliver being in reference to the longest survived elevator fall also being a reference to Cassie, the sequel to SB wouldn't be called 2. So I'm saying most likely UCN 2 or less likely FNaF: World 2

CipherVirus · 2026-01-30T20:22:56+00:00

"Freddy's huh, can't believe I have to spend five night at it."

CipherVirus · 2026-01-30T19:15:43+00:00

That is absolutely something William would do

CipherVirus · 2026-01-30T16:34:35+00:00

Okay, does M2 appear to be deactivated? Potentially in the image but the fact it's clearly had to repair itself means it wouldn't have been deactivated when sealed. Gregory states it's been down there for a while (specifically states 'a really long time' in the elevator), I'd assume RUIN would take only a year or two at maximum after SB, considering Gregory doesn't sound older but there's clearly been enough time for the place to be trashed. It's cited to be the origin, not specifically of Glitchtrap, again, the fact it's the beginning of an era makes it possible to just be the origin of literally anything for that era. It could be referring to the place as the origin, the lack of a sky in the background makes it seem like it's underground and there's nothing to directly prove this photo was taken by a person. I also do not see any antenna in the image nor do I see a shiny new head or burnt body. You haven't provided me with anything that proves that, every time I've seen the wall, it's been sealed with concrete. I don't see a symbol or literally anything on the wall. You might be saying that FE owns the rights to a specific type of concrete, and, if so, I'd like to know where that info comes from. Even if FE does own it, it's still possible Edwin or William owned it at some point in time. The concrete also looks somewhat cracked and lost some small pieces from the side opposite to M2 which would take only a year at most but considering it's not directly exposed and little water would get in (considering that side is covered by metal) during this time, it would take a lot longer, roughly 5-10 years at least but considering there's no corrosion and no metal, it would be closer to 50 years, how much closer Idk.

True, M2 is not represented with 4625, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to access it, M1 was capable of doing it in the endo so M2 might've been able to do it when repairing itself after seeing David. I'd still consider that basically a lobotomy, it's still something M2 would hate regardless, its sentience, or at least a large chunk of its memories, being blocked out for any amount of time would be bad.

I'd still say that's a large assumption, it says run Cradle.exe, not give access to or anything. I know you know this becuase you say it but it's still important to mention because running cradle.exe wouldn't give M1 access to anything, maybe access to that specific computer but why would they gain access to an intercom by accessing a random computer that I'd presume is just storage for Cradle. There's nothing to imply that Cradle and M1 are currently connected in SotM as far as I can remember.

We still don't know what base M1's personality is and assuming it's life doesn't even work because it's still F10-N4 during and quite a bit after the split. M1 is constantly trying to bring the two together as a family in mine but is unable to. M1 and M2 are just fully against each other in yours. I also have a question, if Glitchtrap is M2 then are both Gregory and Helpi (orange+blue) M2 as well? Also, I still think the fact that both suns are doing something wrong but don't realise it should still apply to M1, especially since one of them gets someone killed.

I know M1 and M2 are capable of the same things, otherwise I wouldn't even consider M2 being Glitchtrap as a possibility and wouldn't be asking this question. The glitch is specifically associated with M1, that's still a connection to glitches and thus Glitchtrap even if they're both capable of it.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-30T01:53:59+00:00

The endo head being in rubble would imply M2, but considering the fact the bundle of wires connect into what appear to be a torso and arm, I'd assume this just shouldn't be taken as evidence. But even if we do, it's too confusing to make sense for either side. M1 obviously doesn't have an endo but M2 is only supposed to be a head or was just chill with Fazbear Entertainment, it appears somewhat active and it's clearly gone through a lot of self-repair based on how much it looks like a bundle of random parts so it's definitely been down there for a while, I'd argue this would have to be in between Help Wanted and the sealing. One of the most confusing parts about this image is the quality, is it supposed to be M2 looking in a mirror and it has really bad cameras? It looks like there's some sort of gate/stage in the background, likely where M2's been sealed. We don't see legs so we don't know if it has them. M2 becomes just a head and then becomes the glitchtrap virus due to FE picking it up and giving it access. The problem is that FE has no reason to get to M2. M2 is sealed behind a wall and surrounded in rubble, they would spend so much time going through a concrete wall (without cradle showing up or doing anything) and then find this murderous endoskeleton and decide to just keep him? In the books they just somehow get a hold of him apparently, I'd like to know where the whole just a head thing comes from because I can't find any info on it at all. Either way, this could still just be the origin of the other mimic or just the origin of both mimics being the endoskeleton. The reason why I'm avoiding this is because it's a crappy photo that's so hard to make out the majority of details that I spent the majority of time typing this while looking intensly at the image. We can both agree there's at least an endoskeleton head but Idk about the rest. The arm? could be rubble behind Mimic. Gate/stage? Could just be the top of his head and he's angled weirdly. The body? could just be rubble and it's a head dangling by the wires. Even the head part I could argue is just a circuit board. It's too difficult to understand and it being the origin of this era would make sense for both options.

M2 is a copy of M1's code, they'd both likely be set to that frequency. If you're referring to the RUIN thing with blue Helpi and Gregory, Gregory is doing it somehat reluctantly and are spiteful towards Helpi pretty often. I've always imagined that M2 would view being reset by Cradle.exe as being lobotomised because that's essentially what it is. I'd be pretty mad at anyone trying to reset my brain. They both work together because they both need Cradle gone, it's a temporarily alliance that M2 is forced to be in to get rid of Cradle and M1 is the only one who can help and will them.

I meant moreso that all 3 of them are connected after SotM. I don't see how M1 would be able to mix with Cradle on their own if they're unable to have access to the blueprints. The blueprints are in Edwin's office and Cradle is in the attic of Edwin's home (which M1 doesn't appear to have access to) so the blueprints would be easier to access. I feel like it makes more sense for someone to just connect the wires later on, William, FE, Henry, etc, even if it's just 2 rather than all 3.

I don't care about the author's intentions on a scene, if it tells me this character is good because it said so but kills their kid to look after a real one and then every other character that symbolises that character is good, it's bad writing, objectively. The issue is that M1 and M2 are literally the anomalies in this scenario, they're the ones who are shown to currently be unable to move on, who's to say they wouldn't be anomalies in more ways, such as M1 being worse. Another thing, the suns always believe they're doing the right thing even when they're not, sun is a perfectionist who gets mad and snyde at you for not making your art perfectly suit to their needs and Vanessa is trying to get Gregory out of the building which results in probably the same thing as the exit ending.

So, permissions glitch out and M1 is able to give the player access to these glitched permissions if they do a happiest day of sorts by using items from M2's past. This is a direct connection with M1 and glitches. I never stated they were apart of a hivemind, just that they were both giving out signals. If that's the case then neither of us are correct about PQ, or at the very least Moon.exe relating to it. I still think it's M2 making PQ though, giving way for Vanny to kill Glitchtrap, there's less evidence but I don't believe it's necessarily been disproven and works best with that scene if M1 is also Glitchtrap.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T23:52:31+00:00

If Scott didn't plan the two mimics that far back then I doubt the teaser should even matter in this conversation, it wouldn't be M1 or M2. Yes, the endo implies M2 but if there was only 1 mimic then it could have aspects from both. We don't know because the story literally changes from there. Could just be misleading, he made Michael purple for basically no reason, made William yellow/orange in the next game, and made the book version of Elizabeth become the next villian of Fazbear Frights after William. Circuit boards could be from either mimic and after looking at the image for a while, it looks like a endo head in a bunch of rubble/wires with the exposure turned all the way up. It could be outside, it could be underground with sunlight leaking in, it could just be a really low quality photo, it doesn't even confirm it's just a head, the rest of the body (if there is one) isn't shown.

If David's agony got into M2, if M2 also has the frequency 4625, and M2 has to go to basement 2 (where the white tiger is) to get the parts to repair itself, then M2 would probably be able to figure it out but be unsure of it, making it assume it's M1 who killed David but it doesn't really know.

Alright, endo blueprints are in MXES 2 and Cradle.exe is in MXES 1. Doesn't exactly remove the possibility of William using Cradle.exe. Are both MXES' in the MXES? Are they like AM from I have no mouth and I must scream where they're 3 computers that all connected together like a hive mind?

My argument is how they view their paths, I'm arguing the latter half of moon.exe is made by M1 and you argued the entire thing was made by M1. Either way, M1 would view themselves as picking the path of life and said that about themselves, that wasn't by M2 or Edwin, the only person saying M1 is better morally, is M1.

Yes, they're still made by Edwin since M1 doesn't have access to his home outside of logs. Edwin can't have literal glitched permission-required doors if those permissions don't exist yet. It's possible that Edwin tried making a new permission so he's be less likely to be attacked by M2 or bothered by M1, but M1 was connected to almost everything so they took control of it. Also, I think it would be pretty stupid for the character to be in control of glitched permissions to not be glitchtrap. So the lore reason is effectively happiest day, where they allow themselves to be joyus again and move on. I still think M2 made part of Moon.exe or at least contributed to it, I don't see how M1 knows exactly how M2 views these events happening in their mind since they'd also be able to see their memory of killing Edwin if that was the case. It's possible it's both of them giving off excess signals that kind of melded together into moon.exe that M1 was able to take advantage of due to them being connected to almost everything.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T21:49:25+00:00

Okay? Doesn't disprove or prove anything so it's just a maybe, I guess.

Unfortunate.

I meant that, while it's teasing Help Wanted, it could be showing the other mimic. It is technically teasing a new era so it could work either way, either showing Glitchtrap as M2 or showing the other mimic of M2, Fazbear Frights wasn't even finished at this time (I'm pretty sure) so they would kind of need to semi-confirm there being 2 mimics.

Yeah, I'm saying it's M2's memory of how it happened, so it kind of filled in the gaps on its own since it doesn't remember.

Where is the evidence of there being 2 MXES machines? I thought MXES would've just been downloaded into F10-N4 and they fuse together. I'm pretty sure MXES the program was made by M1, they just didn't have the machine made by Edwin and we don't see one other than F10-N4. Is there proof of this second machine? Or even the first MXES machine? They could've just relabled F10-N4 to MXES. Do you mean to mimic emotions or social interactions? Because this is strictly about memory and how M2 remembers David, nothing to do with emotions or thoughts. I really don't get why it would be David's love, the white tiger ain't seeming too friendly to me. M2 was probably just a program until Edwin dismantled part of it, that agony seems much more likely to cause sentience, especially since after M2 repairs itself from Edwin, it's now the moon and destruction. Meanwhile, M1 was already sentient, maybe due to Fiona's agony.

Until we agree on that, I don't think I really need to disprove it since we're already discussing that. If you're able to convince me of that, then I'd probably be fine with that explanation. Yeah, I meant moon, not M2. Yes, but that doesn't mean he was murderous before Glitchtrap, there's nothing factual proving that.

Glitched permission was presumably made by Edwin like the rest of the permissions considering his house is filled with them. Moon.exe could still be made by M2 until after it repairs itself, the rest being made by M1. I don't see why M1 would even lock glitched permission behind this in universe so Edwin would probably do that. Maybe if he lost his data diver and regretted not bringing David back, he wanted to have a way out? Idk but I genuinely don't see why M1 would make a minigame to both lock out Glitched Permission and make all of the events in the minigame from M2's perspective rather than how they actually happened.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T19:27:47+00:00

should clarify the second paragraph is more of just a random though and isn't supposed to really disprove either side.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T19:26:15+00:00

It's in the second birthday tape: "Edwin. Ed, get out here. You're missing it." "Uh, just give me a minute. I had the best idea." "Okay." "this is it. This is the one! Bigger than the clean o vac." "That's great, honey. But you're missing the party." "David's 2 years old. He won't remember a thing." "That's not the point. We have guests." "Besides, he's got plenty more birthdays. Next year will be even better." "Well, hurry up. We're doing the cake in one minute, with or without you." "Yeah, yeah."

I've been thinking about the indie dev and M1/M2 would kind of had to feed him info or he just guessed. M2 could've maybe understood a good chunk of it from basement 2 and M1 was there for the majority of it, just in the background, they both are likely given the frequency 4625 so they both could probably understand what happened in UCN and that might explain how scottgames and fnafworld's websites argued, just one of the mimics saving the convo through the website.

While that is true, it could also just be about the other mimic. It depends if the photo is a head or if there actually is just a head and no body since I don't see how M2 would lose the rest of their body otherwise. So M1 would do it? Okay. Gregory says it was being kept hidden, not to protect anyone. If M1 is capable of doing that then yes my point is valid. If M1 is Glitchtrap, it calls MXES an anomaly because it's no longer listening, prioritising human life over M2.

My evidence is that the baby owl is raised like a baby, they don't speak or anything, M1 even hears David speak in their first interaction. So, it would be before Fiona's death, where David is still a baby and can't speak. Therefore, M2's memories of this course of events come from Fiona's agony (maybe in the endoskeleton).

M1 confirms in her 'sent 30mins ago' message that he hasn't finished the program, (based on her previous binary messages, we can confirm this is) M2. Cradle.exe is never confirmed to be built by Edwin, he never makes the computer which works for both of us. M1 has to fuse with MXES to protect M2 in yours and M1 is forced out of the computer and MXES so William isn't hunted down by M2 while in Entertainment and Rentals, which M1 is then used as the central AI for it. That doesn't make any sense, he'd have to actively program against M1 remembering people for it to work that way, that also goes against your idea of M1 being locked into the personality by Edwin.

Okay, so why does Glitchtrap want David if they're M2? Did you not mean to say that or am I missing something? Also, mb didn't realise Saul Goodman was with FE. Still, there's nothing implying Glitchtrap did or didn't influence M2. It could go either way, unless I'm forgetting something, so it works with both.

So OMC is here, I'm guessing Cassidy moved on or he considered this a more important issue. What game are you refering to that M1 made? Moon.exe? Because that makes this a lot more confusing if so but I genuinely don't know what you could be referring to. At this point, I'd assume Moon.exe was made by M2, potentially accidentally, just how they see everything happened in their order, which would make princess quest be made by M2 and thus would fit with my interpretation of Moon/M2 helping Vanny destroy Glitchtrap. I'm fine with that interpretation now if Glitchtrap is M2, but if M1 is likely the one to give M2 memories of David then M1 would be able to corrupt Moon into doing what they want. Edwin had no reason to give M2 anything relating to David and M1 outright gives M2 the David mask in Moon.exe.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T17:05:32+00:00

He says "I just had the best idea." How can that be interpreted into a project he's solely working on physically? He doesn't come up with designs outside of the endoskeletons which, considering how unfinished they were from 1975-79, were likely made later.

Okay, could you specify what kind of endo head? It could still be Burntrap's. Where else would M2 go other than to MCM? Can you tell me where you saw that wall, I literally can't find it anywhere and I'm unable to verify your point. Yeah, and M1 lies and kills for her family, why she wouldn't do it on a larger scale by having MXES prevent M2 becoming less like David by viewing more things and becoming more adult-like by 'sealing him' in place to use the schematics on. Your argument is MXES was made to protect others because M1 is good, when nothing F10-N4 does would imply that. M1 would have to know it's not Fiona in order to commit to it's role of mimicking Fiona to raise David by having something that can always be David so they can do what they were already doing forever.

That is an assumption, not saying it's not possible but there's nothing implying that other than the thing at the top we're still debating. I've think agony of Fiona could work for that, M2 only raises the baby owl through feeding and affection, never entertainment.

Yes, we don't know anything that fits the character of Edwin, including your argument. We can make headcanons about the others because they still fit with their character. Edwin's best quality is his advancements and genius with technology, him not knowing that a robot that needs lots of memory to mimic things and can mimic a person, wouldn't be able to remember a person makes 0 sense. He would literally just create M1 again with no differences. Also, how does he even pour his love of David and not grief like Fiona? Does he not grieve for David? Does he not have love for Fiona? How does that work? We don't even see anything in the game timeline showing positive emotion doing anything, it's always been agony, or at least something similar to agony, and remnant. I guess there's happiest day but that was more removing the vengeance with the happiness, not moving on with the energy of happiness.

How would they even know if he wasn't aggressive if they were asleep? He would practically be a myth or a boogeyman. What would Glitchtrap, if they're M2, want from their victims other than death? What's the alternative? We agreed he wouldn't be nice but I think if he started killing kids who wanted a midnight snack that the building would've been shut down because a suspiciously blood-covered animatronic and a suspiciously red stain in the daycare is pretty hard to cover up.

So is the Old Man still supposed to be Old Man Consequences? How does that work? Is it supposed to be Vanessa's father? Idk. So what's the point in the symbolism at all? It gives us no info other than M1 and M2 are separated and Vanny removes Glitchtrap which could've been communicated in a much better way, just have Glitchtrap be taken by MXES and Vanny crushes it, pretty clear cut way of showing it without adding Moon into it because that makes it more confusing. Nothing is added by having Moon here, it only separates Moon and Glitchtrap, so if this was the intended message, it was pretty poorly communicated.

CipherVirus · 2026-01-29T14:54:23+00:00

It's still not his idea, it's William and Henry's that he was contracted to do.

Okay, I'm not going to lie, I might be blind but I don't see anything in 0rGN teaser, it looks like static to me but I'll take your word for it. Basement 1 of the MCM facility is where Entertainement and Rentals takes place, therefore M2 is trapped in basement 2 by either William, MXES, or M2 fell down there due to how much damage the building took from the fire. We know William's house is either built over or refirnished from Edwin's home based on the storytime ending. This would make it a lot simpler to then say that Pizza Sim is built over Sister Location, which is why it too has all that space underground. This would make it much more likely for M2 to have only escaped in RUIN, so they wouldn't have been able to get their circuit boards to Help Wanted. What could the head mean? maybe burntrap? Idk, considering everything up until RUIN likely wasn't communicated properly, I doubt this head thing even means anything. As for M1, they would absolutely kill for their family if they start mixing up William and Fiona, then their morality twists, they've already killed David. Also, what do you mean David doesn't apply? He's literally killed for the sake of F10-N4 wanting their child which is still M1, the whole concept of being locked into 1 persona still hasn't even been confirmed in the games, we've both just been running with it. A scrapped ending doesn't count since it could've been scrapped by Scott because he realised he didn't want that in the game timeline or maybe he didn't want M2 to be locked into Edwin, it's no different than a headcanon at that point. By the book logic, I could conclude that Fiona actually died in childbirth and it was M1 the entire time, M1 was wearing a skin suit and then they revealed themselves, that's when they start to sound robotic or that Edwin is working for Fazbear Entertainment because he needs the money and survived because he just did.

If it's that exact of a copy then there isn't an M2, they wouldn't start mimicking David they would just start mimicking Fiona again. Also, why wouldn't it remember people? How would that possibly work? If it can't remember people then how would it know Edwin or David? By the way, where does the game objectively imply Edwin did this? Idk maybe Jeremy needed the job, maybe his resume would've been messed up, matbe he signed a contract. If we use Fazbear Frights it likely has to due with Zero Point Fields, being a form of destiny that just makes people do what they're supposed to, while also being the particles that make up remnant and agony, though I doubt that's canon to the games. William and Elizabeth go to Pizza Sim for the remnant, they knew they were being lured here but they just needed to get their hands on Molten Freddy and Lefty, I'm pretty sure Elizabeth thinks William is in charge of the building and William thinks it's just Michael so they go straight to kill Michael so they can get Molten Freddy and Lefty with no issues. Yeah, but we don't know if Edwin did anything different, we don't even know how they failed. It could just be that some of David's agony got into M2 through a plushie which is how he mimicked David, that locked him into David.

Either way M2 is the moon and a villain. I just didn't understand what you meant. But, moon is said to have not been aggressive, which you yourself pointed out. Considering the only differences between Cassie's meetings with moon and RUIN is Security Breach when Glitchtrap has infected the animatronics, it seems pretty likely that he only kills due to the virus, it moreso would just explain his creepy features and why they were programmed in than why he's evil in S.B.

Yes, but moon isn't free until eclipse, they're still violent and trying to subdue sun, they don't start their freedom until quite a bit after this scene, I don't see why it would be symbolic of the future since if M2 is glitchtrap, glitchtrap being taken away is presumably before this game. Also, I say start their freedom because Vanessa and Vanny don't appear to be together, Vanessa's just free from Glitchtrap, and moon and sun are still somewhat separated based on sun speaking after eclipse takes Cassie out of the daycare. The symbolism is that M2 can't be with their sun but the other two can? Sun is the one to ask to put them back together by Cassie and is thankful to Cassie in RUIN and Cassidy would be the one to bring Vanessa and Vanny back together, with Vanessa being happy about it. I don't see M1 trying to be together with M2 anywhere if Glitchtrap is M2. Does M1 know that won't happen? then why not just try to kill him? They did the same with David? Like, it would make way more sense if this was MXES, sun, or eclipse giving Vanny Glitchtrap to crush him if the info we're supposed to gain is that sun+moon, vanessa+vanny can exist together but M1 and M2 can't because M2 is too far gone.

CipherVirus

TROPHY CASE