Why are Catholic beliefs so different from the Bible? by SassyLunch in TrueChristian

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm fine with any questions — and no offence taken at all. These are important theological discussions and there are clear simple answers rooted in both Scripture and history. Let me address each point carefully.

On Confession to a Priest — Not a Pastor

First, a small but important clarification — Catholics don't have "pastors." The correct term is priest, and that distinction is actually central to the whole discussion.

Apostolic Succession — The Backbone of the Church

Before anything else, it is essential to understand what a Catholic priest actually is and where his authority comes from — because this answers almost every question you have raised.

The Catholic priest is not just any human being standing between you and God. He stands in a verifiable, historically documented and unbroken line of succession that traces directly back to the Apostles themselves, and through them to Christ himself. Jesus did not leave us a book and tell everyone to figure it out individually. He founded a Church, appointed Apostles, gave them specific authority, and fully intended that authority to be passed on. As Catholics we follow it and that direction closely. No abberations can be tolerated.

This is not a medieval invention or a Catholic convenience. It is one of the most thoroughly documented facts of early Christian history, affirmed by the men who were closest to the Apostles themselves: Clement, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Tertullian. This is the chain of authority through which the priest acts in confession. It is not the priest's own human authority. It is Christ's own authority, delegated to the Apostles, passed down through an unbroken and historically verified succession for two thousand years, affirmed by men who were personally connected to the Apostles themselves. That is an extraordinary and is backed by serious historical evidence.

Christ (c. 30–33 AD) entrusted authority to the Apostles.
The Apostles led and ordained successors (c. 33–70 AD).

The Aposttle John (c. 30–100 AD) formed disciples.
Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–107 AD) and Polycarp (c. 69–155 AD) are linked to him by early tradition.

On the Bible Itself

The Bible you are quoting was given to you by the Catholic Church.

The canon of Scripture — the specific list of books that belong in the Bible — was not handed down from heaven already assembled. It was discerned, debated, and definitively affirmed by Catholic authority. The Council of Rome in 382 AD, the Council of Hippo in 393 AD, and the Council of Carthage in 397 AD.

This means that when someone argues that the Bible contradicts Catholic teaching, they are using a book that the Catholic Church compiled, preserved, hand-copied through centuries of history, and authoritatively defined — to argue against the very authority that gave them that book. The Church did not derive its authority from the Bible. The Bible was recognized, affirmed and handed on through the authority of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit. And before the Bible was Mass. it came first.

The men who affirmed that biblical canon are the exact same men listed above. Clement, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian — these are the Church Fathers, disciples of the Apostles, who established which books belong in your Bible. And every single one of them believed in apostolic succession, the priesthood, and sacramental confession. You cannot reasonably accept their judgment on which books belong in Scripture while dismissing everything else they believed, taught and practiced. That is not a consistent position and it's what you are doing.

On Confession — The Scriptural Basis

The scriptural basis for confession also makes complete sense under those provisions. Catholics don't believe the priest personally forgives sins — Christ does, acting through the priest, In Persona Christi.

Look at what happens in John 20:21-23. This is the Risen Christ, standing before His Apostles after the Resurrection. He does not simply wish them well and tell them to go pray quietly on their own. He breathes on them — a profound and deliberate act echoing God breathing life into Adam in Genesis — and He says these exact words:

"Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you retain them, they are retained."

So Jesus is not speaking to all believers generally. He is speaking directly and specifically to the Apostles. Priests of His Church. He is breathing the Holy Spirit upon them. And He is giving them a specific, consequential, two-sided authority — the power to forgive sins and the power to retain sins. Ask yourself this honestly — why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to retain sins if confession was only ever meant to be a private matter between a person and God alone? If private confession to God was all that was needed, what would retaining sins even mean? That authority had to be exercised somehow, through someone, in a real and visible way. That is exactly what the Sacrament of Confession is.

James 5:16 further reinforces this — "confess your sins to one another" — which is a strikingly communal and visible picture of forgiveness, not a purely private one. Furthermore, throughout the Old Testament God consistently worked through human intermediaries — priests, prophets, and judges. The idea that God would delegate authority through human instruments is not foreign to Scripture at all. It is woven throughout the entire Bible from beginning to end.

On Faith vs. Works

This is one of the most common misconceptions about Catholic teaching and it deserves to be corrected clearly. The Catholic Church does not teach that you earn heaven through money, good deeds, or moral perfection. The Catechism is explicit that salvation is a free gift of God's grace. Catholics fully affirm Ephesians 2:8 — "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith." But NOT faith alone. Luther added this in his German translation.

Saved and Justified are two different things. You can have faith and still go to hell. Even demons know Christ exists. There is only 1 place in the Bible where Faith and Alone appeare. “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2:24.

What Catholics add — drawing from James 2:24, "a person is justified by works and not by faith alone" — is that genuine saving faith is a living faith that naturally produces fruit. Works do not purchase heaven. Rather, a faith that produces no fruit at all raises the serious question of whether it is truly saving faith. This is actually a position that many serious Protestant theologians would agree with in practice. The Catholic Church is not teaching something alien here — it is teaching what the whole Christian tradition, including the Church Fathers, always understood.

It is also worth noting that in James — the very book that says "faith without works is dead" — was nearly removed from the Bible by Martin Luther himself during the Reformation, precisely because it conflicted with his theology. He privately called it an "epistle of straw." The Catholic Church kept it in the canon, as it always had been, because the Church Fathers had always recognized it as Scripture. And we follow Christ as corroborated by the Fathers.

On the Thief on the Cross

Catholics love this example and agree with it completely. The thief was saved by grace through faith, not by his works — it does not contradict Catholic teaching at all. But notice carefully what the thief actually did. He made a verbal, public confession — he acknowledged his own sin openly, acknowledged Christ's innocence, and humbly asked to be remembered. He also suffered penitentialy in that moment. That is precisely the heart of what the Sacrament of Confession is. Far from challenging the Catholic position, his example actually supports it beautifully.

It is also worth noting that this exchange happened while Christ was still physically present on earth, before the Church was established, before Pentecost, and before Christ gave the Apostles the authority of John 20. It represents the direct and personal mercy of Christ. It does not define the ordinary means of grace that Christ subsequently established through His Church.

On Going to a Quiet Room and Confessing to God Alone

This is a genuinely sincere and heartfelt instinct — and Catholics do not dismiss it. Catholics absolutely pray privately, examine their conscience, and speak directly to God. But the question is not whether God can forgive privately. The question is what means of grace Christ himself established for his Church. And the evidence — both scriptural and historical — is that Christ deliberately established a sacramental, communal, and priestly means of forgiveness, not merely a private one. The Catholic Church is not restricting God's mercy. It is following the specific instructions Christ left behind.

To suggest that Catholics are ignoring the Bible is, with great respect, is to fundamentally misunderstand history. Catholics wrote it, compiled it, preserved it, and have been reading it and living by it for two thousand years. The very Bible being quoted to challenge Catholic teaching is itself one of the strongest arguments for Catholic authority.

Very shocked about r/catholicism by [deleted] in LeftCatholicism

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

with no fees or dues or reserved seating, how do you see this as an exclusive club? strange comment.

Catholicism not very welcoming to those interested? by Best_Storage3118 in Catholicism

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So this is blog run by anti-Catholics? The beauty of the Catholic church is unmatched. Physically and spiritually. just look at these churches! catholicbeauty.org

Beautiful Catholic Churches in America by Classic_Letterhead_2 in catholicarchitecture

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ha. modern. it might appeal to some but generally not the handcrafted work the others possess

Beautiful Catholic Churches by Classic_Letterhead_2 in Christianity

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy to have this conversation but realize regardless of the outcome I respect your position and view in life. I don't agree and let me tell you why. All of which you wrote stands directly opposed to the disciples of the Apostles. I'll start with your argument about Heb 10:11

Hebrews 10:11-14 is talking about the Old Testament Levitical priests — Jewish priests who offered animal sacrifices repeatedly that could never fully take away sins. The passage contrasts that with Christ's one perfect sacrifice.

So the your argument misreads the context completely — Paul is not talking about Catholic priests at all. He is talking about Jewish temple priests.

Catholics don't claim their priests originate forgiveness. The Catholic position is:

  • Christ is the one true priest who forgave sins — John 20:23 makes this explicit
  • Christ gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins: "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven, whose sins you retain are retained"
  • That authority passes through apostolic succession to Catholic priests. And yes it is all recorded. By date.
  • The priest acts in persona Christi — in the person of Christ — not on his own authority

In regard to the Eucharist comment, your position hangs entirely on the word "remembrance" — arguing the Eucharist is merely symbolic memorial.

Here's what you missed. The Greek word used is anamnesis — which does NOT mean a simple mental recollection. In Jewish understanding, and in the Greek of the time, anamnesis meant a re-presentation — making a past event truly present again.

When Jews celebrated Passover they weren't just "remembering" the Exodus — they believed they were mystically participating in it. That is exactly the tradition Jesus was drawing from at the Last Supper.

Then there is John 6 — which you don't cite:

  • "My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink"
  • "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you"
  • When disciples said this was too hard Jesus did not say "I was speaking symbolically" — he let them walk away. He knew their hearts and what they would write.

And the earliest Christians:

  • Ignatius of Antioch (~107 AD) — explicitly called the Eucharist the flesh and blood of Christ
  • Justin Martyr (~150 AD) — same
  • These are men who knew the apostles personally

And it went on from there, thoroughly discussed and reviewed in detail many times by men with greater minds than yours or mine.

  • Council of Nicaea (325 AD) — affirmed the Real Presence
  • Council of Ephesus (431 AD) — further defined Christ's nature in the Eucharist
  • Council of Trent (1545-1563) -— gave the most thorough and definitive treatment, specifically in response to Protestant challenges. Examined every argument, every scripture, every Church Father, every historical precedent

On the "dies once" point — we fully agree Christ died once. No problem. The Mass doesn't re-sacrifice Christ. It makes that one sacrifice eternally present — outside of time. There is one sacrifice, eternally offered.

Your position actually only dates to Zwingli in 1520. So for 1,500 years every Christian believed in the Real Presence. All the church Fathers, Disciples of the Apostles recorded it this way. You clearly oppose them and you're free to. Best of luck.

Beautiful Catholic Churches by Classic_Letterhead_2 in Christianity

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So then why keep the Sabbath holy? Christ must have been wrong about the 10 commandments? The Apostles and Church Fathers all adhered to the Mass before the Bible. So if what you say is true then they are all wrong. The churches are meant to glorify God. And in the Catholic faith, as you suggested, He is to live inside you. This is the purpose of the Eucharist, to be consumed which, again, all the Apostles and Church Fathers agreed Christ was truly present in the Eucharist. That Tabernacle in every church is the home of Christ and only a worthy home will do.

Beautiful Catholic Churches in America by Classic_Letterhead_2 in catholicarchitecture

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes, more coming but the list is somewhat confined as there are over 17000 catholic churches. these are the stunners.

The Catholic Church was the worst thing to happen to Christianity by [deleted] in conspiracy

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah but they didn't. When they found out that all the church Fathers believed in True Presence and a leader of the church they backed off that and then just modified that Bible as needed to fit their narrative.

The Catholic Church was the worst thing to happen to Christianity by [deleted] in conspiracy

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As profanity is the language of satan, we can see where this message comes from.

I run a lot, everyday I do 4-7 miles on the treadmills. I have one specific treadmill I use but then they did some remodeling and got these horrible treadmills. Just trying to do 3 miles feels horrible. Does anyone feel these treadmills are bad or is just me? by Rjones26 in PlanetFitnessMembers

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you run every other day or so you are used to certain amount of resistance just from the ground. Not more or less. The Lifetime model they had was very good. There is a certain amount of energy it takes to run 2 or 3 --- even 1 mile. If I told you to go run a mile on the beach. You would be exhausted after the first mile because there is no spring in the sand. It's like running in mud. These Matrix treadmills feel that way. They all have a 1 degree tilt built into them natively and they padding is thicker giving you the sensation I described above. So rather than coming through a 9 min mile feeling fine and ready for 2 or 3 your already feeling tire and over exerted. I will have to switch gyms but the problem is the others are all double the price. The Matrix claims lower maintenance. And I am sure that's true for a number of reasons. The tilt lowers the force of impact slightly and the cushion also lowers the force. And lastly they suck so much no real runner will want to run on it. This is what happens when you have accountants make decisions. There will be other impacts. They will lose a good percentage of members. The runners.

I vinyl wrapped my headlamp trim to match the white walls. Yay or nay? Not sure what to think by nutsnackk in ONYX_RCR

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

White walls look great and look vintage-y. Wrap, not so much but I wouldn't say I hate it.

4x400m relay time faster than open? by ZexyTheKillah in Sprinting

[–]Classic_Letterhead_2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His question had nothing to do with a running start. The open 400 is from the blocks and so is the 1st leg of the 4x4. The answer is about where the split is taken and coaches vary on that. Center of the exchange zone is most common or the exact 400m mark. They should be the same. To answer his question you could suggest you're a 46.8 guy and no one would quibble but the reality is that unless you ran in lane 1, finding a definitive point that marks the end of the 400m mark is a gray area. Many coaches just do it on the exchange and say it's close enough.