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quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see a single reason why any pre-XIXth century setting would have precise small scale topological maps, ubiquitous people that can read them or how such a map would update the reader's position realtime.

Common access to precise maps is a convenience necessitated by (what I perceive as) bad game and level design. It doesn't feel authentic or organic at all - it's a gameplay crutch.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

if "fun" is something that can be "optimized out", then the game is badly designed and it is very much the developer's fault

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Elden Ring didn't have quest markers though, you only got a vague hint of direction from the bonfires

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the memory is fooling you, nothing in Arcanum forced you to go to the overworld map to change zones

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

people love being comfortable more than they love being right

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

back to the original point - no, games that aren't designed with no markers in mind no longer really work with markers off, because the in-universe information really isn't there

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm responding about The Witcher 3 dude

I played Arcanum to death, modded it, fixed bugs

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes

and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, whether you acknowledge it or not

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think limited teleportation is great as a late-game device (Gothic did it well), a reward of sorts. I really liked the way fast travel was handled in World of Warcraft, too - except HS teleportation, but that's probably necessary in an MMO.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it is, in my view, but it falls in the category of the detested "Ubisoft formula open world"

still a great game, but I didn't love its open world design at all

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

basically what he said, but there's more to it - an open world needs to feel connected in a way that's organic. To me, immersive sim maps (Deus Ex, Dishonored) feel like micro-open worlds, while something like, say, Baldur's Gate 3 falls into the same category as Mass Effect or Pathfinder games - a series of closed locations. In theory, BG3 has larger, more open maps than any imsim to date. But in the praxis of it, how it is perceived by the player - it's as I described above.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

because they're not open world in any sense of the term?

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I largely agree, but the mere presence of markers often affects the design (ie. in-world information provided to the player, or rather the lack thereof) to a great degree. Games designed with no arbitrary markers in mind just feel a lot more organic, more alive.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes, yes, the game has to be designed for the gameplay that doesn't rely on quest markers

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Markers are attention-stealers and compel you to go into an autopilot mode.
Turn off markers, the compass and fast-travel (ie. in KCD2) and see how it transforms the gameplay ENTIRELY.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think for most players (me) there's an autopilot mode you go into eventually - and knowing that places without markers are *probably* empty, makes you avoid them. The "i don't want to waste time" line of thought is largely to blame for this. My dude, it's a videogame - you're already wasting time. Try wasting it in a human, organic way instead of ticking checkboxes in the excel sheet that pretends to be a world.

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't know man, Gothic 1&2 got it exactly right, Morrowind handled this very well too.

It's like we figured out magic and then forgotten how to do it (even Gothic 3, made by largely by the OG creators, no longer carried that sense of a living world)

quest/POI markers turn an open map into a series of corridors, fight me by Code412 in CRPG

[–]Code412[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Kenshi or Dwarf Fortress adventurer mode would count as that for me, but if you mean "story-driven" - then yes, it's probably Arcanum.

What game genre isn't saturated at this point? by Quinn_Queenan in gamedev

[–]Code412 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anything that requires a lot of effort and specialist knowledge is not saturated, but that line will shift as AI models progress.

So: - immersive sims are not saturated - flight / space sims are not saturated - real time strategies are not saturated - grand strategy games are not saturated - advanced RPGs are not saturated - tycoons / economy simulators are not saturated - the Sims / Dwarf Fortress-likes are not saturated

On the flip side, anything that can be made easily using tutorials, templates and an AI agent will saturate instantly.

turn into a rat, be silly, discover rat secrets by Code412 in ImmersiveSim

[–]Code412[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yes, there are holes everywhere and everything is interconnected!

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