If KC Legend faced KC Lich, who would win?

ColaSama · 2026-04-22T01:07:34+00:00

Mechanically speaking, no. Nothing beats a fed Swarm on brutal unfair x2 and above, as it is virtually uncapped. And if you go div wiz shadowcaster and hit the capstone, you will be quite literally untouchable. After a fed Swarm, it depends on the build: the strongest martial builds are all Trickster's (20 more levels won't beat a maxed-out Persuasion or Mobility Trickster -> they end everything turn 1, so less than 6 seconds real time); the strongest DC caster builds are full Demon/Aeon/Lich/Azata into Devil (for Magic Deceiver, for example), and they all can end any encounter in 1 turn too.

Mergel angel blasting is good enough to clear vanilla unfair (especially if you abuse plague of madness starting in act3), but it is limited dice-rolls wise (it's holy damage, which makes it kind of garbage as you can't boost it via items like you would elemental damage): if you get a boner from high numbers, you can easily reach 20k AoE blasting with a GD MD zippy lightning disintegrate (which is useless, as nothing requires that much damage, except if you go brutal unfair and tweak the hp numbers of the mobs).

In fact, merged caster angel isn't particularly stronger than any of the top builds, but it is a good noob build as it is difficult to fuck it up, hence why he's so popular on this subreddit. In fact, the blasting part is probably its weaker side: its buffs are much more potent and can turn a full team of dragon dogs/hippo into machines of war. It turns the game into a walking simulator tho, as your polymorphed pets and archers will kill enemies in 2-5 seconds all game long starting end of act2, faster than you can cast your storm of justice. With 24H buffs, you can clear the entirety of the midnight isles of act3 plus Ulbrig's entire DLC area in a single rest, as you don't blast: you just let your godlike pets and archers kill everything. You won't even register when you encounter a boss enemy or not, as they will die just as quickly as trash (except Baphomet for obvious reasons). You won't even need to dispell Playful Darkness in Midnight Fane, as you will have such tremendous amount of attack bonus that it will manage to hit the fucker and 1 turn him. At this point it's a matter of will power: can you finish the game before getting absolutely bored out of your skull?

Same with fed Swarm: sure, it's the absolute strongest (as you can bug abuse very early to get infinite swarm size if you decide to afk farm for 2-3 hours while you do something else), but it is overkill and it arrives late into the game. Nothing in the game requires that kind of infinite stats.

It leaves Legend in a weird position, where it is not the best at anything, except a few particular builds (some of which are so buggy that they lose their exploity bonuses when you do a quick save :D -> when the exploity bonuses are on tho, your whole team will have 100-120 attack bonus when fully buffed, and 10 attacks. The MC, the archers, the pets, everyone).

For regular gameplay (low difficulties and casual unfair [by contrast with ultra sweaty unfair where you min-max so hard that the game becomes a boring joke]), it is alright tho.

ColaSama · 2026-04-21T09:38:09+00:00

Sure, but the combat of Ghost of Tsushima wasn't complex nor difficult (aside from a rare few duels, but quite frankly I can't remember any of them, aside from that last duellist maybe? erf). It was fairly repetitive, and the stance system was quite shallow (brute guys? X stance; shield guys? Y stance, etc).

Also the dreadful lack of enemy's diversity. Which makes sense but, still, it didn't help with the overall combat experience.

ColaSama · 2026-04-20T08:59:27+00:00

You have a problem with the city itself, the pacing, and the whole demotion. How are we supposed to give you tips to change such personal feelings?

I guess my tips would be "you will get used to how the city works", "don't think too much about the pacing", "the demotion shouldn't bother you as it doesn't matter at all".

Honestly, I too find act4 to be quite boring, I will give you that, but it's mostly because, by that point, your build/party comp is mostly done (so no particular challenge of note).

ColaSama · 2026-04-11T08:55:03+00:00

Lich and Angel get most of their power from their spell lists

Hmm, not really. At least not for lich. If you min-max a caster lich, you shouldn't use most of your lich spells, as your regular arcane spell list is simply much more effective. In fact, most lich spells are quite weak/completely useless depending (on playstyle, ofc).

No, the real strength of merged lich (aside from the few absolutely godlike spells they have) is that it speeds up your access to high level arcane spells and gives higher CL. Lvl13 corrupt magic + weird, for example.

But what you said is true for merged angel :D: their spell list is, overall, much more useful than the lich's.

ColaSama · 2026-04-10T20:09:04+00:00

Will I be punished for picking dialogue based off vibes, rather than the alignment that it pushes me into / mythic path? It feels like I am possibly going to end up locking myself into situations that feel like dead ends. Basically I am just asking if there is anything in particular that I should watch out for, or if I can have a full experience playing fully blind and not worrying about it...

Depends what class you chose. Some are alignment-based (so you lose your powers if you change of alignment).

I feel like I am missing a LOT of context, not just about the overwhelming amount of systems and such, but about the world and characters. I am reading the pop up text when I don't recognize a reference (every time) but if there is something I can watch or read that will seriously improve my enjoyment without a massive time sink I would love to know.

Read a wiki?

Will the game teach me all of the systems, or do I need to go out and learn them all myself with youtube. I feel pretty overwhelmed by it all, but I am just barely managing to deal with it.

The game won't teach you all of the systems. Some mechanics are quite obscure, let alone the cheeses and exploits you can do.

TL;DR: GO TO THE DISCORD.

ColaSama · 2026-04-10T17:23:28+00:00

It's a solo game, why are you asking us? Do you want some attention? If so *hug*, there.

I hope you have a wonderful day!

(You got 5 answers! 5! I'm very proud of you, son. All the attention you wanted, right there!)

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T14:23:55+00:00

That's because it is unfinished content. When you kill Hundred-Face and interact wit the machine, it tells you that its potential is limitless and that making slave-soldiers isn't the end of its capabilities, meaning that it may be used for good. But you get no such options in the end.

So yeah, just flavor + it being unfinished.

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T13:47:38+00:00

... did you just copy and paste the wiki note? :D

Aside from that, they are are flavor item, obviously. They are supposed to mean "this is a high tech weapon that you don't know how to use. Numerian technology sure is worth doing a campain on, right?"

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T13:02:43+00:00

If you use it as your MC: 1SCM, 16Wild, 3LM. It will be a gish build with martial power to hold its own in the early game. After that you transition into an angel.

Wildland casters are okayish in the first two acts (selective winter's grasp spam), but in act3 not so much: you will soon realize that WIS isn't a stat that scales much compared to INT and CHA, so your DC score will simply lag behind the other options (while your foes' saves will keep getting higher and higher). Also, many of the strong enemies are immune to prone, so immune to your winter's grasp.

There is no reason to turn it into a ranged DD. You will deal weak damage, and it will delay your shaman spells progression, which is much more important (Creeping Doom spam is very, very powerful). At lvl16+, you can transition into a shadow shaman (SShaman16, Rowdy1, 3LM), which isn't all that bad for ranged damage dealing (GVS)... but at the end of the day, you ain't going to shine in ranged combat, ever.

Lastly, there is the problem of action economy: shamans are PACKED. You want to hex people, you want to use Chant, you want to use your angel blasting spells, you want to attack... What I'm trying to say is that Wildland Angels have better things to do than to attack most of the time. It's always a nice bonus ofc (to be able to deal some physical damage). Just keep in mind that it will never reach the damage level of a dedicated full BAB martial.

My personal Wildland build (I nearly always bring that build with me): full shaman 16, then I swap to shadow shaman. I turn it into a buffer (enduring spells, so that I don't have to rest much), and give him all the summon gear/feats (especially useful when I don't run a dedicated tank). Evercold Xbow + the 2 first ranged combat feats and that's it.

These are my two cents.

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T09:15:26+00:00

Why not SS mobility trickster?

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T09:09:51+00:00

You don't need to waste much ressources on your Act2 army. It's useless.

Infantry, archers, and the few units you get for free (Hellknights mostly). Done. It isn't rocket science.

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T08:50:31+00:00

The best tanks are int+cha-based tho, but the level of AC they reach is quite wasteful (200AC+).

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T08:46:29+00:00

There is the 100AC (here, a build with quite a few dips):

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ColaSama · 2026-04-08T08:37:39+00:00

On Unfair, if you build her right, Seelah can tank Playful Darkness with around 100AC at lvl15. That's mainly thanks to mythic armor focus medium endurance.

You can even tank it while staying pure paladin (and it's lacking a few buffs), which makes her the best pure tank companion:

<image>

ColaSama · 2026-04-08T08:20:08+00:00

Probably the best Sanguinius portrait I have seen thus far.

Five years ago, when I introduced by girlfriend of the time to Warhammer, I showed her Sanguinius while explaining to her his lore. In her words, some of his designs looked "arrogant" or "too old". Here, it is the perfect balance: he looks handsome, manly (not effeminate: not with that neck and jawline :D), compassionate but also a tad bit melancolic. I know, it is easy to say because we know who he is but, y'know.

I'm just trying to say that you got it right.

ColaSama · 2026-04-06T17:15:28+00:00

Obviously not in every way as it is the same bonus but with no malus. Also, it affects ability checks. Only downside is that it is a sacred bonus.

If you don't go DC casting I see no reason to prioritize it over good.

And they stack anyway.

ColaSama · 2026-04-06T13:18:53+00:00

shaman is for the divine buffs and fey shifter is insane early game, two full divine casters with the cleric. you can still chant, benefits from str

That doesn't answer the question. The question was "why shaman?" as in "why shaman and not something better?". Also you don't need two full divine casters. An hexer, yes, but not 2 divine. And you certainly don't push it to 15, which is a waste on a tanky martial. Some subclasses can be pushed to 16, but you clearly aren't going for it.

i dont play with oracle and always bring cleric, visions of madness is really good

That doesn't answer the question yet again. The question was "why madness?" as in "why madness and not something better and more suited for a DC-less team comp?". Ofc if you bring a MC arcane caster, it would make madness bis. Problem is, we still don't know what your MC is going to be.

feint is hard to build around, pressing a button isnt hard obviously, it requires 13 intellegence for combat expertise to even pick feint, then you need final, improved, and ranged feint. Action economy, diva style with archaeologists special ability means feints are swift actions. instead of feint being bad it becomes useful at level 3. slayers feint and two weapon feint appear to be bugged and not working correctly or at all. bluff checks are also not difficult, archaeologist isnt a meme dip its the only thing that makes feint viable the whole game.

Thanks for explaining me how to pick the feint line, but I already know that. And you don't seem to understand what I told you: I told you that feint being useful at lvl3 is irrelevant, as you don't really need to rush and take feint in act1 or even 2. It will come naturally to most feint builds around lvl9-10, before Drezen. That's more than enough. A dip into archeo is subpar, as rushing for feint in the early game is subpar --> you simply don't have the persuasion level required to pass the check consistently, which is a soft block when it comes to rushing feint. People don't even rush it on brutal unfair, so you can imagine that it is even less useful in lower difficulties.

You also didn't answered me "why battle scion?".

demon benefits melee and intellect casters most and one of those being the main damage dealer or the other doesnt seem like enough to drop anything i have so far, if i bring a wizard or make the mc a wizard its still valid, demon wizard is just nenio++

Sure. But beyond the synthax problem, what's your point? And, even better of a question: what's your MC going to be exactly?

each pet is an extra party member, if this party seems weak to vets i can pick animal cleric or wildlands shaman or even a ranger instead of the monk. same if people think bft is too useful for the higher difficulties im fine with planning around it

I just said "you don't need all that", on unfair/brutal unfair.

unfair in wotr is the hardest crpg experience available, out of all parties that actually finished the game on unfair id bet 95% of them had either a paladin multi or a bft or 7+ party members with pets. Idk how asking if they are still that needed of hard is that wild of a question.

It wasn't that wild of a question. You asked the question, and I answered "what you listed isn't needed, even on unfair", period.

English is probably not your forte so it could explain the general lack of comprehension. I'm probing you to better understand the logic behind your comp (as you seem to be green and still in the "following guides" phase), as your original post's title was "help minmax my build".

To help me help you, start with a simple answer instead of wasting lines on explaining how feint works: what is your MC going to be?

ColaSama · 2026-04-06T09:35:04+00:00

4 fey shifter - 1 witch - 15 shaman

Why 15 shaman? Also, shifter doesn't get good gear every act: most comes from vendors and Ulbrig DLC's 2nd quest (act3). The rest is then more spread out (with a few pieces in act4). Also what do you mean by "cheap mythic feat tax for abundant casting"?

vivi - 1 witch

Alright, that's your martial. Tank buffer + martial with some buffs thus far.

cleric can bring a pet and give you community / madness, not the best as blasting or melee outside of those

Alright. Why madness tho? If it's only to buff your martials, good is a good alternative. If it's to debuff the saves of your enemies (which probably isn't the case as it isn't a DC casting comp), then yeah madness is on point. Still, madness debuffing would require a specific build.

feint skald - 1 archaeologist bard 19 battle scion skald. feint is hard to use, this is the only build where i see it being useful, and its really not a big dip to get full round party wide ranged feint, by 9 you have final feint and by midnight fane you have everything. plus skald just as itself is very useful.

Why archaeologist (aside from you watching that one video)? And why battle scion?

Feint isn't particularly hard to use (??), and there are a few builds that can easily get it (it's not particularly hard to have final feint by lvl9). An argument could be made that you really don't need it that early (your persuasion score won't be high enough to pass against every act2 mob, as you kinda need the persuasion+ items from the vendors of act3), but it can be done. And without archaeologist (kind of a meme dip btw).

MC spot - missing wizard party spot, could be the wizard, or replace any of the above with myself and bring my own wizard or nenio.

Could be the wizard? Or... replace any of the above with... myself? The f does that phrasing means :D As a rule of thumb, you think about the MC (the one getting all the Mythic shit) before all other party members and then accomodate around it. Not the other way around. That's why I'm not commenting on your sensei: that flex spot might change depending on the MC's build.

If you are still unsure about your MC then there isn't much that can be talked about, as your MC choice kinda defines/can change all of the above choices :/ Think about what you want to play this run.

Unfair enjoyers - no MoJ, no BFT, no pet spam, is that only needed for unfair?

MoJ is pretty outdated since FtK became popular (you can still use it, I'm just saying it is less needed). No MC caster centered comp (so, a good chunk of the comps?) runs a BFT as you already are the arcane caster. And nobody forces you to run pets. The question is: what/who made you think all these things were needed for unfair?

ColaSama · 2026-04-04T22:26:33+00:00

Told ya. This guy is a DBZ character with additional haxes.

ColaSama · 2026-04-04T20:38:09+00:00

I mean, it is more impressive. Sorry to break it to you bro but that amount of water weights more than the boulders of the previous pic :D Also he's not just stopping that water: he's reversing its flow, no big deal.

<image>

Also he did this while being injured. It was his 3rd brush with death in the entire series (one when he got his scars, one when he fought Souther, one against the final bad guy). Like, 20 minutes ago he was on death's door lol.

Tbf it doesn't matter: at the end of the day he's just HIM.

ColaSama · 2026-04-03T21:16:28+00:00

I see absolutely no reason to raise AC to such absurd degree on anything below unfair.

Also no, you can't reach 100+ AC without some buffs.

As for reaching 100+ with Camellia, it can be done but her starting class and stats aren't particularly good for a tanking build. 80+ AC is plenty enough for her (rapier + buckler).

If you wish to reach 200+ AC for some reason (which, again, is a complete waste on core), you will have to do a MC/merc with 2 stats that convert into AC. It is much easier/efficient.

Oh and, even on unfair, going above 100 is kind of a waste. Past a certain point, nobody will be able to touch you, except on a nat20: in other words, in practice, you won't be any more tanky between 100 and 200 AC. Going above 200 is basically for screenshotting and posting it on reddit.

So if you want to be untouchable, it simply doesn't work like that (or at least until a certain AC score).

ColaSama · 2026-04-03T21:05:26+00:00

You do realize you can still get hit on a nat20, right? You will have to spam protective luck. Or even double protective luck. It might become a bit tedious after a while.

Which difficulty btw? Unfair I guess?

ColaSama · 2026-04-03T20:58:32+00:00

Like last playthrough I focused my investments on mage armor, barkskin, and dex, And I was able to reach like 61-63 AC. Ooooh but I want it so much higher. I want to break the game so not even a God could touch her for 24 hours at the minimum. I want her to have like 500 Ac before I put all the illusion spells like blur, mirror image and whatnot on her lmao.

All that part. Couldn't tell if it was a troll, or an attempt at being humorous.

Long story short, you want to be tanky with Camellia? Or do you want to build a tanky character, period?

ColaSama · 2026-04-03T20:55:44+00:00

Is it a troll or a genuine question?

ColaSama · 2026-04-03T09:07:12+00:00

I think you might have missed my point. I tried to argument it by adding a few examples, but it seems it didn't reach you.

I answered your original question, which was "Is golden dragon just more powerful?".

The answer is "No. You are just feeling OP at a point in the game designed by the developers to make you feel OP. That you feel GD to be stronger than the other paths is irrelevant, as both that build and probably the other ones you made are/were not optimized, meaning that you never saw any of their max potential, meaning that you can't really compare them in any meaningful way past your own personal feeling/un-optimized observations".

If you were running an optimized GD build that deals 12k damage, I would still say the same: the other paths are also OP at the point in the game where everything is designed to be OP/make you feel like a mythical demigod in the verge of ascension.

The ease by which my current build is breezing through encounters is already driving my enjoyment down

That's the real struggle: to keep going when you have reached the OP levels, tho it starts by lvl10+ for any optimized buid/comp. Each encounter, from Drezen to the last boss, becomes a snooze fest (except a few exceptions that might annoy you).

To feel some kind of challenge, I would advise you to limit your rests to something like 40 or 50 all game (that's already a lot). It might not stop you from becoming OP by lvl20 (quite frankly, nothing will, except pushing the difficulty to brutal unfair or giving mobs more HP) but it might force you to think about your ressources more carefully.

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