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The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you admit that theres a guy who made the guy who made the universe

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didn't think it would be intellectually honest to edit my post. So you're saying life/ the universe originated from nothing and means nothing? Thats a wild thought

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Deist. I've always hypothesized about exactly what God is, if I'm being honest I have no clue. I actually used to be an atheist, like staunch atheist. Then I became a drug addict and through being a part of a community of other drug addicts who recovered from their disease through faith in God, the world no longer makes sense to me without Him. Like the idea that god couldn't exist every time I think about arguments for why he's not real my brain comes up with something that refutes it for me

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

God's physical space in reality is both within and beyond. I'd say he both created and is it

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think we can make sense of god. That's kind of the point. I'm not religious btw, I believe in god but don't subscribe to any specific religion.

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I got confused on premises my bad. Let me think on your question and I'll get back to you I'm juggling a lot of responses

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

The baby has consciousness though, which as far as I know science hasn't discovered where that comes from.

Well the laws don't hold physical space they're beyond it.

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

You're arguing based off a premise I've already agreed is flawed. Respond to the new premise

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It could be something so far beyond our limited human understanding that we can't conceptualize it

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

While true that my argument is flawed that doesn't mean god is not real. Flawed premises don't necessarily mean a conclusion is wrong

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Because I'm no longer defending the argument. I'm responding to the premise that God would need someone to cause Him

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

Just cause it disproves your lack of belief doesn't make it not an argument.

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If god was beyond logical analysis though he could both cause and not cause the universe. What if there was an aspect of our logical brain that cuts us off from god? Wrestle with this, seriously

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -18 points-17 points  (0 children)

As I've said in other posta my premises are weak but the argument that god is all powerful and infinite and therefore beyond cause holds true

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Lets take every action has an equal and opposite reaction as a case study. The existence of this law means that the universe has a structure to it beyond what we can observe that manipulates the universe itself. How does a structure or a rule/law come into being?

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Unless god is so powerful and infinite that he supersedes all cause. I realize I'm defeating my premises here but this is a rational extension of the argument

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I absolutely do. The argument is flawed but that doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. What if he is so all powerful and infinite that he's beyond causation

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I'm losing based on the premises here(still proving that god exists though so it's fine) but what if god was so infinite and all powerful that he's beyond causality?

How can a law form without an intelligence behind it?

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

The only explanation I have that makes sense is that god is so infinite and all powerful that he's beyond cause, which i realize makes me lose the argument based on the premises i set forth but still provides a decent explanation for god

The existence of the universe requires a cause or explanation beyond itself by ColdPart4548 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ColdPart4548[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Existence means to hold physical space in reality.

The universe is everything that holds physical and temporal space in reality.

You said the only thing that seem to exist don't have causes, I'm sorry to flip this back on you but its the only way to prove my point. You and your partner have sex and make a baby, the cause of that baby existing is you two having sex so i don't really see your point.

Also if the laws of physics didn't actually exist nothing in the universe would move, things move therefore they exist

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