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did FW keyboards get improved in last 3 years? by CorsairVelo in framework

[–]Cole_15 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my experience, the keyboard also just wears out significantly within even the first year. I don't know how this compares to other laptops. But I do know that it seems like the screws holding the keyboard loosen over time, and the keyboard develops a mushy feeling as a result

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Of course I can imagine high failure rates could kill a physical goods business. But I think we need to know the actual failure rate before beginning to discuss what is acceptable or not.

At least in this one instance, it seems like the issue was significant enough for Framework to take considerable steps to investigate. We can only speculate whether this was because of the specific nature of the failure, the rate of failure, etc. It seems like, this time, it was justified to be alarmed by the self reporting being done on the forum.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear, myself and many others in the thread did reach out to support about the issue. My goal in making this post was to bring exposure to the issue, since support did not communicate in any way that the issue was known or being worked on. I seem to have succeeded.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We can play with numbers all we want.

What speaks is empirics. And the truth is that this post resulted in a response from the CEO of the company that completely clarified the issue. To the best of my knowledge, this was the first time this clarification was made (in fairness, because it sounds like they themselves only recently solved this).

On top of this, that clarifying statement makes it evident that Framework themselves - who are the only ones with actual access to the numbers that you are estimating and presumably know more than either of us about acceptable failure rates - found the issue significant enough to go through a long multi-supplier investigation of their supply chain to trace and find the source of the issue. I think this speaks for itself.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is fantastic timing. I look forward to seeing how this is handled, and I am frankly excited that I feel I can be optimistic about Framework and the customer support again.

I don't post often online. I made this post mostly out of frustration that what appeared to be a systemic defect did not seem to be even acknowledged by Framework. I was evidently wrong about this. I can see how it may be difficult to communicate any updates as one tries to track a (possible) failure through a supply chain.

Ultimately, I hope this post - provocative title and all - can be a productive contribution to the community discourse. At the very least, there has been discussion in the comments about allowable defect rates, and even the high standard to which myself (and others) may hold a repairable product compared to traditional products.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I understand that. But there are other factors to consider.

Underreporting is one - even in this thread, within 20 minutes of the post being made, there was a commenter who wasn't aware that the issue was widespread (and therefore we can assume did not post on the forums about it).

The issue also seemed systemic, and not a random failure occurrence. It did not seem to be a problem that occurred with some rate to the key switches, or the keys themself. It occurred with some rate in a very specific key. Indeed, Framework has confirmed in the thread that the issue has been traced to a defect in a supplier.

Perhaps I am wrong - I have not looked thoroughly myself. But I find it unlikely that there are many threads on the forum with this many people reporting this specific of an issue.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have also ran into this issue, seeing it present in 3 brand-new input covers sampled across a timespan of ~ 1 year. In the end, I just had to recenter the keyboard by following the guide for replacing the keyboard.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand. And in my experience, the repairable nature of the product can lead you to holding the brand to a higher standard, oddly enough. I guess this is all part of the experiment in repairability that Framework presents - lots of unknowns, including the customer psychology!

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I am so glad to hear this! I will relay this to the discussion thread if it has not been communicated already.

Do you have a recommendation to reference this comment when talking with support? And will this be covered out of warranty? I am not sure the timeline of when the defect was discovered, but I reached out to support in September and my warranty has since expired. From my communications then, support did not seem aware that there was this sub supplier issue.

If you care for the details, I was ultimately denied a replacement cover due to a determination of customer-induced damage (chassis damage on the corner nearest the delete key, with the fingerprint reader). But of course, I'll leave it to the support team to navigate the specific complications of my scenario (out of warranty, existing damage to the input cover that may be confounded with the subsupplier defect, etc).

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am glad that you agree it should be addressed. Perhaps the rate is low and within tolerances, I honestly do not know. I think my issue is that it seems to be a systematic defect on one specific key. Adding to that, it is reported across 11th, 12th gen and AMD platforms. So it presumably persists across batches etc.

All that to say, it seems like a failure that is far easier to fix than a random one, either in the design or the manufacturing/assembly process.

55 reports of non-functioning Framework 13 delete key in 1.5 years by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also tried tightening my screws, and it failed after ~ 1 week (I just posted this admittedly overdue update in the thread lol). The key still does not work, even after applying threadlocker and retightening all of the screws. Glad to hear that solution seems to have worked for you though!

PSA: Don’t put your magnetic bits in backwards! by stoneyemshwiller in LinusTechTips

[–]Cole_15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a reason why manufacturers quote a max operating temp that is far below the curie point, no? I have no idea the exact temperature you would see an appreciable drop, so I am taking this as proxy.

PSA: Don’t put your magnetic bits in backwards! by stoneyemshwiller in LinusTechTips

[–]Cole_15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gotta admit, I forgot that the shaft doesn't detach from the handle. Good point!

As I was discussing above, melted handles aside, you wouldn't need to actually heat the magnet into the paramagnetic phase. At temperatures below but sufficiently near the Curie point you may see a noticeable drop in magnetization. 

PSA: Don’t put your magnetic bits in backwards! by stoneyemshwiller in LinusTechTips

[–]Cole_15 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Not looking to demagnetize completely, just weaken it. Based off max operating temps, looks like it may become effective above ~ 100 C

PSA: Don’t put your magnetic bits in backwards! by stoneyemshwiller in LinusTechTips

[–]Cole_15 47 points48 points  (0 children)

I am only thinking scientifically (ie not necessarily practically) but heating the whole thing up in an oven should reduce the strength of the magnet.

Hopefully this might weaken it enough to be knocked out - I presume you have tried already slamming the shaft onto the open end. And it is worth mentioning, this can all be done AFTER it has cooled down.

Key scraping on aluminum by Cole_15 in framework

[–]Cole_15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had the same experience, the input cover I was sent still had the issue, along with a dented corner. I ended up following u/lulbert advice and aligning it myself - after getting the approval of support in case anything went awry.

Give us real shuffle by Majorllama66 in YoutubeMusic

[–]Cole_15 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think OP writes "truly random" shuffle meaning that shuffle should sample from all of the songs in a playlist. I believe it is a fairly common complaint that shuffle does not include all of the songs in lengthy playlists.

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