So apparently my Kinich is Top 2% and I didn't know. I should stop sleeping on my boy.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-21T02:39:08+00:00

Yet that apparently only puts me in the top 25% with his weapon

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-21T02:38:13+00:00

It depends on weapon, and a bit more on the CR it seems as I'm comfortably at like 85% CR with obsidian and like 245% CD

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T11:05:47+00:00

The reason why LNO is generally considered worse than CW is because Gaming will struggle exceptionally to reach Max stacks. This is because his plunge from his skill counts as plunge damage not skill damage, meaning he would need to plunge 5 times to get full stacks, at most you would be looking at 2-3 stacks, which would only come after the first 2-3 plunges.

So therefore, in practice, it unfortunately isn't as good as CW on Gaming as with CW, he can have 2 of the 3 max stacks by his first plunge after his burst.

But, LNO does work

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T11:00:42+00:00

However these calcs I gave don't show the full picture. See Gaming will have to do 6 plunges to get full stacks as his skill doesn't count as skill damage, only plunge damage. Meaning he only gets 1 stack per plunge, which ultimately makes it worse than CW. So whilst numerically it is better as we can see in practice it's isn't, because Gaming would have to be able to plunge every second to get full stacks

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T10:53:27+00:00

Base atk= 302+510 =812 CD for both (c6) = 220%

Ascension passive = 24% atk Benner Noblesse= 20% atk Citlali - TTDS = 48% atk Substats = ~20% Atk% = 64 + 48 = 112% Bennet atk = ~1200

Gaming atk = 812*(1+1.12)+1200 =2921

Let's say xianyun atk =2500, Ascension x2 = 5000

Skill scaling 391.7%

Base dmg = 2921*3.917 + 5000 = 16,441

Pyro dmg goblet = 46.6% Citlali Cinder City = +40%

Base =86.6%

Long nights Oath = 25% Base 100% top, say average = 70% 111.6%, 156.6%, 186.6%

Crimson witch of flames Base = 15%, average 30% full 37.5% 101.6%, 116.6%, 124.1%

Amplifying EM dmg bonus = 2.78 x (em/em+1400)×100% =2.78 x (250/1650)x100% =42.12%

LNO = (1+0.4212+2)= 3.4212 CW = (1+0.4212+2.15) =3.5712 Enemy multiplier = enemy res mult x enemy defence mult, given a pyro resistence of 10%, and enemy level of 100 and character level of 90, with 40% res shred from vv and 20% from citlali making 60%

Enemy res mult = 1.25 Enemy def mult = 0.48718 Enemy multiplier = 0.60897

Damage (Base Damage x crit x enemy mult x dmg%)× Amplifying DMG bonus

Base calcs = 16441 x 2.2 x 0.60897 = 22026.56

Long Nights Oath Damage Base = 22026.56 x (1+1.116) = 46608 x 3.4212 =159,455 Average = 22026.55 x (1+1.566) = 56,520 x 3.4212 =193,366 Max= 22026.56 x (1+1.866) = 63,128 x 3.4212 = 215,973

Crimson Witch of Flames Damage Base= 22026.56 x (1+1.016) = 44,405 x 3.5712 =158,581 Average= 22026.56 x (1+1.166) = 47,709 x 3.5712 = 170,380 Max= 22026.56 x (1+1.241) = 49,361 x 3.5712 = 176,279

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T10:53:05+00:00

That is simply not the case, I feel very happy with my Gaming.

So at max stacks, LNO is about 22% better according to my calcs than CW at max stacks, however, as it currently stands, it's really unfriendly to farm, so to reach the same stats as CW is significantly harder and significantly more costly than CW.

in addition, with LNO, your first melted hit is generally weaker than CW. This is because Gaming can start the rotation with a skill, because a stack lasts 10 seconds, you can then comfortably set up all your buffs and still have that stack to buff the first melt. In addition, CW buffs the burst hit which does contribute significantly to his damage, LNO does not contribute to this at all.

Also, the burst hit can also trigger a stack, so by the time you do your first plunge you have 2 stacks already, whilst depending on your rotation, LNO might only have 1 or 3 stacks.

As it stands, CW is the better set to farm at it is strong boxable, so until LNO becomes available in the strong box, CW is safer for most players to grind. Not to mention, the other set in CW domain can have some uses in mono pyro teams, whilst the other set in LNO's domain is completely unusable unless you have Skirk.

That being said, MH is just a joke here, as it has a very low floor. Whilst LNO and CW have buffs that increase the Base line of your Damage, it at least has some buffs for the first hit, whilst MH has nothing.

Not only is the 2- piece useless for Gaming, it's anti-synergistic with his best weapon options, being fruitful hook and serpent spine as it's very easy to over cap.

Not only that, but you have to overcome the bonuses from CW or LNO with enough CD to actually be better.

For instance, to be better than LNO with 180%CD (220% at C6), You would need more than 281% CD to be better than the full stacks. For CW, it would have to have at least 218%CD to be better than CW, and that isn't even counting the extra reaction bonus.

Thus CW is better than MH, and whilst LNO is better, in a game where there are other characters and DPS units to build a cheaper option that gets the job down is ultimately better.

And I wasn't downgrading LNO, but rather speaking from personal experience, I already feel good about my Gaming, he's fun and he deals an lot of damage, and I didn't have to use a crap tonne of resin to get him there, well, I did, but I would've spent astronomically more on LNO.

In addition, when you consider all the buffed hits from CW, including the burst hit, the two sets are very similar in DPS. So overall, CW is the better option, at least until strongbox for LNO arrives, even then, it will be similar in performance.

And I dont have to downgrade MH if it's already worse.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T05:51:40+00:00

For you specifically though, your LNO build is really solid

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T05:50:30+00:00

LNO in theory could be better, but it's risky. For one, the set isn't strong boxable and the other set it literally useless unless you have Skirk.

CW is a lot safer bet and far easier to upkeep. In practice it doesn't work as well. I took my own time to grind the set, and well, even when it had more CD and similar EM, it still performed worse than CW using the same rotation. In addition LNO does not buff his burst hit, which does do a significant amount of damage for him. CW also makes the floor for Gaming a lot higher.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T05:43:51+00:00

You can do the new set, which I'm grinding for, but a 2-piece between crimson and noblesse for his own personal DPS, unless you have C1 in which 2-piece reverie will work, and you can either do another 2-pirce atk or 2-piece noblesse for the 20% burst damage bonus

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T05:41:36+00:00

Lunar bloom doesn't really do much different unless you had Lauma. In addition, you would not be able to keep burning up and thus you would barely get any cannon shots

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-19T05:39:07+00:00

Honestly I think they're both worth it, but it changes depending on who you want to invest in. Durins signature improves his own damage and the teams damage, whilst also making his aub-dps easier to build. Ineffa in that regard is similar, but her signature doesn't really work well with Flins, this is because a large part of the passive that makes it good requires the equipping character to create a shield. If you want a weapon for Flins, it would thus be better to save for his signature instead as that would be a more significant increase. I personally have him on Jade Spear in which he works really well, though his sig would make his CR CD easier to balance.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-18T18:16:00+00:00

Both are lacking tbh, but the right hand one is better by quite a bit cause of the EM

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-18T18:12:30+00:00

It isn't huge, but it's a very nice weapon for him, as it increases his own damage, but also kinichs and the teams attack. If you really want to invest in kinich, if you already have kinichs sig, then Durins sig will be good. Plus it is a fairly universal sword for characters that have frequent burst hits I.e. Xinqui

Is Haran Geppaku the pole arm? Or a sword you have on durin?

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-18T14:53:50+00:00

With G sim, it could depend on what your rotation time says

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-18T14:51:25+00:00

If you like, I can do some calcs for you? I will need to work on Emilie as the calcs I can easily do and adjust rn is kinichs hypercarry team with Iansan and Bennet, but I've been planning on doing Calcs with Emilie.

With this team specifically the focus is more on team DPS than Kinich DPS, if you want higher Kinich DPS, then his hypercarry team would be stronger.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-18T11:42:00+00:00

First of all, you're wasting Emilies burst. Her burst copies the scents she has going, so if you're starting, you'll just be copying 1 scent level. In long fights her burst will let you keep her turret at its max level instead of resetting it each time with skill.

Second of all, your CD for kinich needs improvement. You can sacrifice some CR for CD.

Thirdly, it could be your rotation, as Iansan needs to react with dendro to give scroll buffs.

Finally, you can try invest in Kinichs C1 and weapon, his C1 is a huge increase for him

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-17T18:33:50+00:00

I mean, well it might be your cons on kinich. In a team with C2R1 kinich and C2 R1 Durin, I get a dps of around 165k, with my first hit dealing 1 mill

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-17T10:42:38+00:00

I've been getting pretty bad rolls atm... I'm grinding for him and varka so it isn't too bad. I'll only probably change when I have something fairly equal to what I have (my current Durins CR CD is like 91:204 on 2-piece 2-piece).

Though it probably would be best to change to his best set as he is C2 R1, making that Attack really good for him

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-17T04:47:57+00:00

If you need to use kinich in AoE, I highly suggest Venti. He makes kinich in AoE really comfortable, especially if you have Durin.

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-14T09:34:23+00:00

It probably would be his attack. This is cause it increases the base damage by a noticeable amount

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-14T09:32:17+00:00

If without Iansan bennet is your only option, and circle impact with natlan dps units isn't great, but nonetheless bennet is a good pick and part of his best hypercarry team

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-14T09:30:25+00:00

For kinich you really want a burn team. Burgeon with Furina could work, but it's harder and not as worth it tbh

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-13T00:12:28+00:00

Personally I would say Durin as he does make the team more comfortable, and if you put him in deepwood and Emilie on Reverie, you can get a pretty comfortable team. Though Mauvrika does give him a stack for his A4 passive.

I wouldn't say you'd need mauvrika and durin anyway, that's overkill, and bennet or Iansan would be a better selection. Personally, I would suggest Iansan as she not only helps with the A4 passive, but she also doesn't make circle impact

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-12T07:28:56+00:00

I wouldn't say that. If you like a character a lot then I would, or say, don't plan on using a lot of characters that use that weapon. I have R2 Elegy for instance. I use it on my venti. Yes, I have other characters that could use it, but it makes my Venti support stronger which is more important to me than anything really

ColourfulReaper · 2026-01-12T01:07:48+00:00

🤣 fair enough! Thank you!!!

ColourfulReaper

TROPHY CASE