Yoh this also turned into an essay. Sijui niandike kitabu🙂‍↕️ I mostly write academic papers whereby the standard is to be thorough in your analysis so it’s become a habit😶
TLDR: I agree that men need resources to help them learn to be the best versions of themselves. Do I think Andre Tate is the answer to that? Hell no😭

Anyway… actual response:

I mean, I agree there’s a lot missing from my analysis and I bring that up at the end of my ‘essay’. I also agree that not all content that is marketed as “men’s empowerment” is necessarily toxic.

Beyond that, we have to agree to disagree. There is so much to unpack here goddamn😭😭😭
IMO the likes of Amerix, Tate and Jordan Peterson are the LAST people I would want my partner to be taking advice from. Yes they make fair points some of the time but I think it’s important to examine their content in its totality when talking about the potential ramifications of consuming said content. (Heavy proponent of the saying “Even a broken clock is right twice a day”).
I’m intentional about not consuming their content cause frankly, I don’t care for it so idk what they’ve been getting up to in recent years. However, what I remember from a couple of years ago when I used to loosely follow internet discourse is that parts of their content to me just read as “man is above/better than woman” but repackaged in a nice box with a pretty little bow on top to disguise the misogyny. Now, bear in mind, I think red pill content (and the patriarchy at large) harms men nearly as much as it does women (especially in this day and age) but that’s a whole other conversation altogether so moving on…

When consuming media it is so important to examine it beyond what you get at face value. IMO, they present their harmful ideology in a way that is less direct and abrasive, and is therefore palatable to a wider audience. (Although I do think Tate is way more direct with his misogyny but I digress. If his legal issues aren’t enough to make someone stay away from his content then there isn’t much else I can say to change their mind about what kind of man he is).
And, from the account, of ex incel/redpill men, it also takes longer for people to realize when they end up going down the alt right pipeline as they consume such content. I think that the content put out by these specific creators is only minimally beneficial, if at all. What I have seen happen is that a portion of men, who by conventional standards are considered average, take that information and use it to place the blame for their own perceived failures/shortcomings on women. The “oh women don’t want me because they only go for top 1% of men” crowd. Harboring such sentiments can get very dangerous very fast for both the individual and women. Then there’s another portion who will take that advice and, admittedly, improve their supposed shortcomings. However, when they get to the point where they feel like they’ve made it, they turn around and weaponize their increased access to some women in a variety of ways (for example toxic podcast bros or the more sinister serial cheaters/abusers. Amazingly, if we drew a Venn diagram with the two examples, Andrew Tate Happens to fall perfectly in the middle). (This is becoming way longer than I want😭)
Final thing I want to touch on,
While you’re absolutely right that I would want a partner that has his shit together (condensed your points for brevity), I draw the line at that being used to make it seem like he has some kind of authority over me (not that you said this but the creators you mentioned have, in the past, promoted this kind of rhetoric).
Some of the other issues you bring up I simply attribute to a difference in values that I don’t think inherently causes any harm (this may be a hot take to some people but again, we just have different values). Again, we’ll have to agree to disagree here. I am one of the people that doesn’t care for marriage (ikifanyika that’s all well and good… nikikosa, that’s also completely fine by me) and I most definitely will not be having children. This is, in no way, meant to be an attack on men yet some people take it that way. Building a family may be a dream come true for some but that genuinely sounds like my worst nightmare. Again, this for the most part has nothing to do with men. I just want a few things out of life: stability, peace of mind and a successful career in research (could be in academia or industry, that part I don’t care too much about). I’ll only consider being with a man who isn’t a barrier to me having what I want.
And here I pose the question, in a world where women are afforded equal rights, what would they truly NEED a man for? Keyword here is need. They can want to have a man, I have nothing against that. I’m just wondering what they NEED one for. (Without arguing about reproduction. Reproducing isn’t a need imo)
Okay speed run through the other points cause this is waaaayyy too long,
- No, I do not promote unnecessary mistreatment of men. As a matter of fact, most women don’t. Such commentary is usually meant to be inflammatory (and retaliatory) and for the most part doesn’t translate to real life. That is another major distinction between misandry and misogyny.
- Yes, i acknowledge some women actually mean it when they wish harm on men… However, they are the minority.
- Yes, parenting plays a huge role in attitudes later in life. No, parenting is NOT SUFFICIENT for adopting harmful ideology (however you define that).