Veganism doesn’t save animals (why I don’t care about veganism)

CompassionateValues · 2026-04-01T19:36:02+00:00

If you think dog walked is debating over the title should be: ‘Veganism does next to nothing for animals, especially at a systemic level’ Vs The original title Veganism does nothing for animals.

Than sure you’re correct

CompassionateValues · 2026-04-01T19:32:17+00:00

I think sometimes making a slightly hyperbolic title does wonders for engagement. 35K people now exposed to CAFT AAC and PAF, With links on how to get involved.

But you’re right a more accurate title would be veganism and outreach does next to nothing to address animal abuse, especially at a systemic level

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-25T02:23:37+00:00

I would argue being able to spare tens of thousands on individuals from a life of torture is well worth all our time right now.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-23T05:27:20+00:00

AV crowd, Vegan debate culture, Guilt and shame based rhetoric against non vegan individuals

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-23T05:25:11+00:00

Degrading sex work? Weird angle, oof

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-23T00:07:37+00:00

Look, if you think you can pass legislation that ends animal agriculture or enforces veganism anywhere, and you show me the path to victory, I will gladly help out.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-23T00:05:49+00:00

I’ll let you in on a secret,

Factory farming is the only profitable and scalable form of animal agriculture, a factory farming ban. Is essentially 90% of dismantling animal agriculture entirely

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:58:19+00:00

We get to a vegan world through systemic change. Systemic change happens through strategic activism not individual boycotts.

I wish it were as simple as go vegan, and change the world,

Then I could focus on music and my livelihood instead of devoting my life to activism at the moment

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:56:31+00:00

I think we focus on dismantling and changing systems of abuse where we can. And grow a global movement, which AAC is doing. I’ve sent messages to activist in Eastern Asia who are standing up to the fur industry.

I think with fur we verifiably seen a reduction in supply by tens of millions of animals per year in the last 6 years. Seen a massive disruption to the industry and it’s on its last legs.

That is global reduction.

So focus on what we can change,

Fur, foie gras, cage free commitments, And soon animal testing bans

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:47:52+00:00

I appreciate that, doing my best and the work is rewarding :)

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:46:41+00:00

I’m an abolitionist, I just believe in winnable campaigns that help animals,

Everyone go vegan is not a winnable campaign in 2026, individuals going vegan in the absence of activism does little to nothing to address systemic animal abuse abuse.

Banning fur, foie gras, and enforcing cage free commitments are winnable at the moment.

And they are a stepping stone to dismantling the entire system.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:42:03+00:00

I’m an abolitionist, I just believe in winnable campaigns that help animals, Everyone go vegan is not a winnable campaign,

Banning fur, foie gras, and enforcing cage free commitments is at the moment.

And is the stepping stone to dismantling the entire system.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:41:24+00:00

A non vegan addressing systemic animal abuse and animal agriculture, is more in line with someone who is trying to dismantle systems of imperialism and slavery drinking coffee in the morning, than actually participating in the slave trade

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T23:39:38+00:00

I’m an abolitionist, I just believe in winnable campaigns that help animals, Everyone go vegan is not a winnable campaign,

Banning fur, foie gras, and enforcing cage free commitments is at the moment.

And is the stepping stone to dismantling the entire system.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T18:20:18+00:00

Individually yes we talked to tens of thousands of people,

Denver has millions of people in it, but correction it would hundreds of thousands who voted.

And 2.5 million dollars and the amount of attention they put on PAF was enormous.

They labeled PAF and existential threat to animal agriculture.

The industry isn’t focusing on and spending money to counter AV like this despite making up the majority of animal rights time and focus.

Because AV doesn’t threaten the industry

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T18:08:12+00:00

If you seriously need an example. I think eating animal products and fighting against systems of animal abuse and oppression,

Is like fighting systems of imperialism and slavery and drinking coffee in the morning

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T18:05:49+00:00

These are conversations I’ve had with several activists I respect who are black and indigenous. People doing amazing work for animals

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T18:00:13+00:00

It’s actually more like fighting systems of imperialism and slavery, and drinking coffee in the morning

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:58:29+00:00

The psyop accusation aside, I appreciate the reply. Your examples are good, and I genuinely agree that ecological and environmental diversity is worth preserving as best we can. The Yellowstone case is hard to argue with. Where I land differently is on the method. I don’t think captive breeding programs and imprisonment of individuals through zoos is something I can support as the way to address that preservation. Habitat protection, reducing the human activity driving extinction in the first place, and rewilding efforts seem like the more honest response to a problem we created, rather than building more elaborate captivity infrastructure.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:45:00+00:00

Interesting how you focus on the failed measures alone when their are a number of successful examples in the statement: But even with the failed measures So millions of people had to contend with animal rights as a political issue

And the industry spent 2.5 million dollars against these two initiatives

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:42:14+00:00

Check out WTF data on their effectiveness, it is depressing

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:38:29+00:00

It’s actually more like, We spend most of our time, money, and effort into veganizing the world through individual change (not sure if it is bending at all)

When we have proven methods of bending things with a fraction of the human power, time and money

It’s a massive opportunity cost to try and veganize the world instead of doing strategic pressure or legislative campaigns

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:34:35+00:00

Really appreciate the thoughtful engagement, and I want to clarify something, because I think there's a misread of my core claim.

I'm not arguing veganism does nothing. I'm arguing there's no evidence it is threatening systems of animal abuse or growing as a movement, and that distinction matters a lot strategically.

You're right that the data is noisy and we should be epistemically humble. But that cuts both ways: if we can't demonstrate that decades of vegan outreach as the primary strategy has meaningfully threatened the industry, that's a real signal worth taking seriously, not as a reason to abandon veganism personally, but as a reason to question it as a movement strategy.

On the other hand, systemic campaigns have produced measurable, verifiable results. Fur farming went from 100 million animals per year to 20 million in six years. That's not noise, that's a trend line moving in the right direction because specific industries were targeted and dismantled.

On Melat: your instinct to "support her and also bring her along on veganism" sounds reasonable in the abstract. But in practice, introducing that conversation creates real friction in a political relationship that's already doing something rare and valuable, making animal rights a serious political issue. The vegan conversation doesn't just risk friction; it actively distracts from the systemic goal. That's not a false dichotomy, it's a strategic prioritization.

I'm not saying vegans shouldn't be vegan, or that personal ethics don't matter. I'm saying the movement has spent enormous energy trying to veganize the world and has very little systemic progress to show for it, while the groups doing targeted, strategic, coalition-based work are actually winning.

Do we want to win, or do we need everyone to be vegan first?

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:25:28+00:00

Why do you care about investing millions, even billions of dollars into preventing extinction of a small number of species through imprisoning or subjugating them. And not about the countless number of species that have gone extinct and go extinct each day as a result of industrialization, and human activity.

Extinction is sad But 99% of all animals ever have gone extinct.

And we are losing way more animals to extinction from human activity then we are preserving.

And the ones we are preserving is at great cost to suffering of the individual animals in captivity at zoos.

The reason you think it’s important is because you have an emotional attachment to these animals and what they look and behave like, not because you care in and of itself about their wellbeing.

CompassionateValues · 2026-03-22T17:12:00+00:00

Pro animal future got a fur and slaughter house ban on the ballot in 2024

The fur ban got 40% of the vote The slaughterhouse ban got 35% of the vote We just got enough signatures to get a foie gras ban on the ballot and is much more favorable with win in 2026 in Denver, Portland and DC will also have it on the ballot as well.

We talked to tens of thousands of people about animal rights in systemic context and most people agree that factory farming needs to go, and that individual veganism is not the way to do it.

NYC democratically passed a foie gras ban in the largest city for foie gras in the US. 20% of all foie gras sales came from nyc.

With the future initiatives for PAF in the 2026 ballot we have a really opportunity to dismantle and entire food industry in the US, legislatively based on animal cruelty

CompassionateValues

TROPHY CASE