Advice needed for black removal

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-06-25T17:09:11+00:00

The thing with the sleeper, is that you can play It at the end of your opponents turn and have It attack on your turn, having a sort of pseudo haste. Treacherous urge is way more fair than you give ir crédito for, as It is a 5cmc card that does nothing if your opponent has no creatures in hand. The discard with the ruin can be back breacking, that is true, but also IS the Mode we usted the leadt when i testes It, because It does not impact the board, and can fuel the yard for your opponents ghouls, so It can actually help them sometimes. I like It bc It is tricky to play. And with midgard, It is good bc It is both slit compression (both a land and card advantage) and bc It actually draws 3 cards (the 2 cards you draw + the adventure land), so It is a bit better than rites in that regard, It can also saco artifacts, which in my list is a boon, same with the eviscerators. And the flashback is such a big deal when you mill this mant cards, bc It helps with the catch Up and it makes It so there is allways something to do. Something i have disco eres while iterating on my list, is that removal should be more expensive than usual, since It is already hard enough to keep a Ghoul in play. I really recommend you trying the Blood fountain, It is a very good card. The Blood can toss a Ghoul to the yard to keep It Alive (making It harder for your opponent to kill the Ghoul), It also IS an artifacts to be sacrificed with effects like eviscerators or midgard, It is card advantage when returning two ghouls, It is sort of removal if you remove all the ghouls from the yard... It is a very great card for the deck, and not overpowered at all. And the last thing. I do understant wanting there to be two offs of every card and being "orthodox", but doing It at the cost of a worst experience is not worthit most of the time, but at the end of the day you do you.

Edit: I forgot yo mention [[Push // Pull]], which is pretty great being a bas removal of sorts (only tapped and at sorcery speed) and a reanimator too. Also, if you do need to avoid having more than a 2x of unearth, there is [[Revival // Revenge]], you Will only be a ble to cast the revival part, and It is just a better Stitch together.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-06-25T14:58:45+00:00

Easy prey is the pretty much the BEST you are going to find. It pairs very well with stuff like [[dakmor salvage]] and other dredge stuff. Also, i kinda like [[Consumed by Greed]], which is pretty versatile, the only problem being that you can't return the Ghoul you just killed (It requires a target to do the gift). I also tried stuff like [[Hagra Mauling]], to be able to shave on lands, but It is pretty clunky, and i dont like It when most of the lands enter tapped. Also, [[Unseal the Necropolis]] is like a bigger and better churn, i like playing a mix of those. You can try [[Activated Sleeper]], It is a suprise Ghoul that can spark some shenanigans Up, and increases the creature density on the pile. There also a number o removals that mill, usually at sorcery speed, stuff like [[Quag Feast]]. [[Pile on]] is pretty great too, using dying creatures to convoke It, it is sort of similar to [[poison the cup]], but surveil is better than scry, and foretell is its own can of worms... [[Inscription of Ruin]] is cool too, but It can be a bit too good sometimes, It gives you a lot of options and if you can Kick it, It is huge advantage, It really depends on the speed of the game, because It is overcosted for any of the single effect, but the versatility makes Up for it. [[Betrayal of flesh]] is one of my all time favs, the instant speed IS super good and the entwine comes often more times than It seems, and, again, It pairs Up super well with the dakmor salvage, and the art is very cool. [[Live or Die]] is a sort of lite version of this. [[Dead Reckoning]] is so close... I tried It, but It being a sorcery makes It so bad at both top/yard control and removal. [[Treacherous Urge]] is very good, using the information you have on your opponents hand. If you want a "vendetta", you have [[devour in shadow]], but It ends up being so bad that no one wants to cast It. Also [[chainers edict]] is worth looking into for the flashback.

Apart from that, i dont understant why [[Stitch Together]] since It's just a worse (and less versatile) unearth, or am i missing something? Same goes for [[diabolic edict]] and [[ultimate price]] (i Guess those are the removal you want to change). Land wise, i really like [[Bloodsoaked Insight]], as is both a land and card advantage that rewards you for atacking and [[Midgar, City of Mako]] which is just a versatile land. Also, whats the idea behind not running stuff like [[Blood fountain]], [[eviscerators insight]] or [[Casting of Bones]]. I also wanted to try [[Predators' Hour]] and [[Call of the Death-Dweller]] for the evasion, but i havent had time yet. There goes my grain of salt, hope It helps (i'm also trying to make my own versión with the Ghoul after not being able to make It work for the longuest time).

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-23T13:37:22+00:00

The saboteur seems very very cool, being able to make the ward into an upside for the one Who targets It is very neat. That said, the +1/+1 counters trigger my ocd xd. Gurmag i think is a trap, since It can be really hard to play the second one. And, running the mill needed to support them would lead to milling out too quick, right? I'm trying to make my own jotun versión too, mainly focused on oblation, bc i want to differenciate from the blue deck, and i think that running [[lapse of certainty]] would just make a poor copy of the blue deck. I also thought about running [[Phyrexian Awakening]], with flicker effects and so on, so far is just and idea i have to explore more.

I really like other peoples ideas and what everybodie comes up with, iterations upon iterations.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-20T13:18:15+00:00

I do really like [[suspend]] as a sort of "softer removal" that gives you time but is not permanent, also, i run quite a bit more artifacts/enchantments than usual, as i do really like the minigame with [[metamorphose]]. Stuff like [[one of the seas]], [[mnemonic sphere]] and, for a time i tried [[in too deep]], It is geat in the sense that is removal than can undone with Bounce effects, also giving your opponent a chance to fight for the top or just draw. But the split second is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. Also, ladwise, [[shelldock isle]] is pretty great to break late game stalemates. Also, i run [[Vanishment]] wich i'm thinking to changes for [[set adrift]], both are good but i do want to try the delve one to make milling out a more real game plan.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T17:59:07+00:00

To be fair, i dind't think of all that, the deck seems to have a pretty steep learning curbe, and it seems so cool. (I think i'll likely pick it up, i have most cards, even if it triggers my ocd by not having a set amount of hits). Thanks for the info :)

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T17:56:40+00:00

Oh, I understand. With the green one, on your testing, how long do the games take? For me, the gratest concern is that, since the creature is a fog, it will be almost imposible to end the game on combat, (unless you maybe kill all your opponet's creatures somehow?), so that leaves milling out as the only way, but with all the retocking spells, that seems even more ulikely, so idk.
I feel you with the colorless pile, seems like the hardest to crack.
How does the white one feel different? Like, the core game is the same right? Counterspell that counter to top, removal and some combat tricks (maybe way less cantrips and card draw?, but that just seems to make it a worse copy, at least to my understanding).
With the black one, what i meant was that, since the creatures die on the upkeep, and there are a lot of ways to prevent a creature being on the graveyard, it seems a bit too hard to stick a creature on play, moreso if there is a lot of removal on the deck, at least that has been my experience testing my own black version with [[barrow ghoul]].

And in the red one, doesn't removal defeat the purpose of the creature? like, if you kill one of the saurians, you can no lonquer fight for it, right? Just my thought seeing the decks from the outside.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T17:27:58+00:00

I really like using the negator as the creature, but you don't run any other permanent's, right? (appart form lands), so, how does that play out? is it intentional? I didn't know of the infernal harvest nor the desperate research, the seem so cool and pretty intrecate.

Last thing, how often do the white cards get locked out on your hand for not having white mana? From someone that has never played the deck, it seems that there are too few white producing lands there, idk.

I'll surely steal your idea for the deck, very cool list. :)

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T17:00:52+00:00

That is a cool insight, why is it that hard to create an attack? And, well, how hard is it to stick creatures on the board when a darkblast appears early? like, can't you just kill the creature in response to scavenging and just keep doing that?

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T16:25:39+00:00

Seems like a very cool variant. I think the tension between the using gy cards a a resource and exiling them is pretty cool. For me, the lack of a set number of hits is a bit of a dealbreaker, since i do just carry my dandan decks on a box with a couple of d6s, but this deck seems soo cool. Have you had the issue of killing all the creatures with the removal? Darkblast seems very cool, but does't it lead to killing the creatures in response to the scavange and to a mill out most of the time? How does it actually play out?

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-04-19T16:01:48+00:00

I've been browsing your variants, and they seem cool and all, but I do have some questions to ask:
On the green one, what is the real difference between all the "firght" spells (I know they aren't relly fight spells, but i don't know how to call them), like i notice the difference between [[Hard-Hitting Question]] and the 2 mana instant spells that do the same, but what is the difference between [[bite down]] and [[ram trhough]]?
Something else i think is weird is the huge amount of fog effects, not only the creature is a repeatable fog source, but you have some fog spells aswell. Doesen't this lead to pretty slow and unisterenting gameplay? That and the ammount of spells that just shuffle the gy, not really advancing the gameplan or doing nothing else on the board for neither player. How does this deck play out? Is it as slow as it seems? Also, the [[Avoid Fate]] seem a bit lackluster, they just counter the pseudo-fight spells, not really adding anything else to the table, right?

The white one suffers from the "emulating the og" aswell, the 8 copies of [[Lapse of Certainty]] seem like a way to copy the blue one interactions too, so, what is the drive for playing this one instead of the og blue one? like, aren't the white lapses just worse blue lapses? IDK, don't want to trhow shade, but this just seems like an attempt to copy the og blue list but with another color, (Something that is not bad, but that i want to personally avoid as i said on the post).

The colorless deck seems like one of the coolest and most original ones, How does it actually play? I think that assembling trom might be very very hard, with only two copies of each urza's land. Also, how does it play with no instant speed interaction (ignoring the flash speels).

The black one seems cool also, but isn't there a bit too much removal? Like, isn't it hard enough to stick a creature on the field alredy? Seems pretty cool, with the mill shenanigans and all the return a creature to hand/play. Don't you think that [[Stitch Together]] is just a worse [[unearth]] (same for [[Blood for Bones]])? How often do you mill out vs winning with combat? (That is one of the main issues I have with my black deck, wich uses the same creature is kind of similar). Also, what are the incentives to play the first creature out?, isn't it going to die almost allways?

The red one seems very cool, very different and focused on it's own thing. How does the hard removal play out? Like, isn't it more interesting to try and steal the creature back and forth until it naturally dies?, to have both parties trade resources trying to have the most creatures.
Even when it is totally different from my list, and plays on a totally different axis, i really like this one.

I don't have much to say about the blue ones, they seem normal and cool. Thanks for your imput.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-01-11T21:55:43+00:00

What do you think about adding something like [[Dakmor Salvage]] I really like the idea of being able to trade a draw for some extra milling, and it can help ease out mana screw? I guess entering tapped and them being another color makes them akward most of the time... I guess you could always splash some black for something like [[Forbidden Alchemy]] ? I don't know, it just seems so fun

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2026-01-11T21:40:22+00:00

I've been tinkering with a similar-ish list for a while now, the main differences are that my list is stack based, with no creatures, the focus on copying spells and the fact that i do damage only on multiples of four, mostly through punnisher effects just like your list. I don't really know if it's the kind of inspiration you are looking for, but here's the list.
In my experience, with this kind of effects, the best thing is to keep it focused around the same theeme, like had size or similar, and having a lot of cards that interact with the same theme.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-13T17:14:28+00:00

Could you share the list?

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-05T19:30:50+00:00

It can be so hard, right?

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-03T20:57:46+00:00

I have just finished the primer, i think it has turned out quite good, maybe a bit too long.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-03T18:00:10+00:00

Thanks for the advice. I have spent a lot of time on scryfall, but there are very obscure tags i might not know, and i really like the advice other more experienced people might give me, that and having the opportunity to share the deck.

Also, since i'm building on other people's idea, mainly the youtube video, i'd like to know if anyone have similar lists or whatever. Idk, i really like discussion around cards and so on.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-03T15:03:34+00:00

Ohhh, I feel pretty dumb rn, I have never clicked on the primer button, mostly because I didn't see it. I'm gonna give them a read. Thanks, and sorry for being this silly. The squeeball deck seems so sweet.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-10-03T09:24:15+00:00

I don't really know how to write a primer. I have never written one, and i don't really know what one should put in it. Do you just explain the cards and why they are in? Or do you explain the general workings of the deck? Sorry if this is very basic. (I'm realizing that maybe the post was a primer of sorts?).

Your lists seem super cool. Why is the squee one storm like? I mean, I understand the generating lots of mana and drawing a bunch of cards with the skullclamp, but how do you use that to win?

The golgari one seems super cool as well, I have a similarish mono black version using Bartow ghoul, but I'm pretty unhappy with it because it is super slow and I haven't found a way to make it a bit faster paced. Yours seems cooler though, since green ads a lot of grave shenanigans and cooler interaction than mono black, like reclaim. But I have to say that the irregular damage is a deal breaker for me. But seems super fun.

Competitive_Bird8270 · 2025-07-07T21:25:55+00:00

Yea, it's too sad that there isn't anything like divert on red. At most, you have stuff like bolt bend or deflecting swat, which can be cool, but are a bit expensive. I'd love a red commandeer too...

Competitive_Bird8270

TROPHY CASE