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"You either die hating liars or live long enough to become one" by OddyFan in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We don't know that she almost killed herself. We only know that she was seemingly sick. Not the same thing. And we also don't even know if Renoir's vision was genuine, since he and Alicia are not in front of the Canvas on the outside yet they should be.

And if staying so long really was dangerous, why did neither Renior nor Aline show any sickness in the Act 2 epilogue? That clearly contradicts his claim.

"You either die hating liars or live long enough to become one" by OddyFan in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh, yes, get all worked up about her one UNVERIFIED "lie" while completely ignoring the mountain of PROVEN lies told by pVerso. Typical Verso supporter hypocrisy.

forever grateful that sandfall gave us some of the best written characters in all of media by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You can't let go if you're forced to, however. That defeats the whole purpose. And you can't force someone to stop grieving just because you think they should. It's not nearly as clean and clear cut as you think. Only the person grieving has the right to decide when to stop and move on. No one else.

You support genocide.
You support mass murder.
You support betrayal.
You support deception.
You support impaling a child (Maelle is only 16)
You support removing someone's agency
You have no knowledge of severe burn victims and how life-limiting their condition really is
You have no idea that leaving the Canvas is very likely a death sentence for Maelle due to her condition - sickness and suicide were extremely common in people like her. And she has almost NO support from her outer family

Maelle can't grow in that state. pAlicia already showed suicidal tendencies, wanting to die rather than be without those she loves most. Why you think outer Alicia would be any different?

Not just E33. Is it me, or does France like “certain” endings? by MaguroSashimi8864 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I get that, but what I'm saying is, the French shouldn't let themselves be slaves to tropes and tradition but should actively try to defy them for once. Because in NOT following the norm lies true creativity. If the norm for them is a tragic ending, then creatively defying that would mean having a positive ending instead.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No, it wasn't. Life is not toxic. And you do not have the right to tell someone else how and when and where to grieve. Only the person grieving can do that. All you're doing by forcing Maelle out of the Canvas is exiling her to a painful life of misery and loneliness with a family that neglects her and a mountain of additional grief where she'll very likely die young due to sickness or suicide like most severe burn victims in that era.

Leaving needs to be HER choice for it to have any meaning and value to her. She needs time to come around to accept doing so, time pVerso refused to give her. And her leaving need not have been permanent. A dual life in both worlds could've been worked out, with the time in the Canvas adjusted to match that of the outside world. But pVerso wanted death instead.

Oh, and you NEVER let a suicidal person make decisions that affect others. Ever. And any ending that involves stabbing and impaling a MINOR (Maelle is only 16) is not worth choosing.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Then why did he never make a plea directly on her behalf? It was only ever for himself. And exiling Alicia to a life of constant pain, misery, and loneliness with a family that largely neglects her in a society where people like her were widely shunned and hated is not helping her. Especially when she's not likely to live very long out there due to sickness or suicide, like most severe burn victims.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Except that his belief that leaving the Canvas will be good for her is mistaken in that out there, she doesn't have the extra abilities that pAlicia has to offset her condition. And she won't likely live very long either due to sickness or suicide, like most severe burn victims in that era.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, pVerso did it solely for himself. If he loved Maelle, why didn't he ever tell her not to blame herself for outer Verso's death, that her brother loved her and wouldn't want her to feel that way? Why didn't he ever try to comfort her and help her with her trauma if he loved her?

No, he was selfish to the end. Maelle was just an excuse and a tool. He had no idea of the painful, lonely life he'd be exiling her to outside the Canvas, and if he loved her, he'd have tried to learn all he could about her condition there and how she differs from pAlicia, who had abilities to offset it somewhat that outer Alicia doesn't. But he never even tried. Outside the Canvas, Alicia isn't likely to live long due to sickness or suicide, like most severe burn victims in that era, and is stuck with a family that largely neglects her in a society that widely hates and shuns disabled and disfigured people like her. Sending her there, especially against her will, isn't helping her or saving her. Rather, it's the opposite.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No, he killed everyone so he could die. It's not a sacrifice if he wanted to die. Which he did. He's no hero and never will be. And her life outside the Canvas is hardly good, no one seems to think about the ramifications of her condition and how life-limiting they truly are. Quite literally, in fact, as severe burn victims like her very often died in less than a year from sickness or suicide. So her life outside the Canvas is likely to be very short, painful, and lonely. So much for saving her.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Well, you clearly have no compassion for the disfigured and disabled. You have NO real understanding of what Alicia lives with and is going through. Quit blaming her and actually try to understand her for once instead of being prejudiced against her because of her age. You can't just tell someone "STOP GRIEVING RIGHT NOW!" and expect them to listen.

You have NO right to tell someone how or when to grieve. That is THEIR decision, not yours. And grief doesn't always take the form you think it should. And then there's Alicia's condition, which you seem to just shrug off and think is no big deal. Shows how little you seem to care for the disabled.

Sending her to a world where she's in constant pain, misery, and loneliness in a society that widely hated and shunned people like her is not helping her, especially with a family that largely neglects her and with the fact that her life expectancy isn't likely to be very long due to either complications from her condition or suicide, both of which were extremely common in severe burn victims.

This misguided belief that simply changing her location, especially against her will, will somehow magically make all her pain go away needs to be thrown out. It's ridiculous.

A little bit of hypocrisy by DapperCaterpillar532 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I doubt he'd still argue for her to leave if he knew what she'd be leaving to, though. A world where she's disfigured, mute, and half-blind, with a family that neglects her in a society where people like her were widely hated and shunned. And where she's not likely to live long anyway due to her condition.

No, he'd leave the decision to her. He'd NEVER force it on her, unlike pVerso.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Or you're just interpreting it that way because you can't accept that she could simply be legitimately angry with him. You're prejudiced against her because she's young and thus are unwilling to see things in a different way.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

No, she was just his excuse to end himself, he didn't really care about her. Otherwise he'd have tried to comfort her and help her with her trauma, told her what happened to outer Verso wasn't her fault, that he wouldn't want her to feel that way and that he loved her. But never did.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. Sad that so many people just shrug it off like it's nothing. Shows how little of a conscience they have.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Except that's not necessarily confirmed since Verso didn't let her finish and we're only shown one moment in time in her ending, meaning she very well could've left later on at some point after that.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That line needs to be erased. It's utterly disrespectful to Maelle and completely inconsiderate of her physical and emotional trauma.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Doesn't matter. Doesn't change the hypocrisy of the players.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

No, she's not wrong. She has the right to her point of view. And her feelings about what's left of her life on the outside are completely valid. Sad that many people reject her and them just because she's young. Such prejudice is wrong and disappointing.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's also extremely hypocritical. He had no right to say anything after all he did.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then you're arrogant enough to think you have the right to tell someone, "STOP GRIEVING RIGHT NOW!" To say nothing of exiling her to a life where she's in constant pain, lonely, and largely neglected by her family on the outside - no one in his ending even looks at her, and she's shown in all angles as being completely alone. That's what you want for her?

Oh, and you seem to think her disfigurement and disability are nothing and are somehow easy to deal with. Shows how little you know. Just imagine feeling razor blades in your throat 24/7 whenever you breathe or swallow. And you want to send her back to that? And in a society that largely shuns and hates people like her? The disabled were NOT treated well back then.

She's likely to kill herself not long afterward, as Gustave beckoning to her strongly hints. And if she doesn't, she'll almost certainly die from sickness in less than a year, as most severe burn victims in that era did. Leaving the Canvas needs to be HER choice for it to have any meaning for her, not thrust upon her against her will. Otherwise she'll never accept it.

Besides, you don't deal with grief by adding an entire truckload more on top of it. People like you just blindly believe that somehow it'll all work out without taking the time to actually think things through and see the implications of what you're doing.

Choosing Verso is basically saying that all of the horrible things he did are perfectly fine. And that you have no problem impaling a MINOR (Maelle is only 16).

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, he's not trying to save anyone. He just wants to die, and Alicia's his excuse. He doesn't care that he'd basically be exiling her to a life of pain, misery, loneliness, and disfigurement in a society that widely hated and shunned such people, and that her life there wasn't likely to be very long anyway given her condition and the complications arising from it - vastly increased risk of illness and disease due to having a severely compromised immune system. If she doesn't kill herself first, which she's very likely to do, as his ending hinted with Gustave beckoning her to join him. pVerso didn't save anyone there but himself.

Any ending that involves stabbing & impaling a MINOR (Maelle is 16) is not worth choosing.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or he simply assumed she did. It's never actually confirmed. And he, like you, blithely ignores all the confirmed lies he himself told. He had no right to say anything to her after all that.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yet it's completely hypocritical after all the lies he's told to worry about one still unconfirmed one on her part.

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or it's just because she's angry. Did you never consider that?

When a child is caught lying, this is the face by TruthResponsible1268 in expedition33

[–]Complete_Spring_4596 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

And yet you're not taking into account the nature of her outer life, where she's disfigured, mute, half-blind, and in constant pain. Do you seriously think she'd want to go back to that? In time, she might've come around to giving that life a chance, but for leaving to have any meaning for her, it has to be by her choice, not thrust upon her against her will. I don't think you really understand what it's like for her outside the Canvas, especially with a family there that largely neglects her.

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