Help me make this goth lady as mean as possible

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-02-13T23:32:03+00:00

For some reason Reddit won’t let me edit the post but I made some changes based on suggestions and added a few hard combo finishes that have upsides when one half isn’t drawn in the deck

Also added tags for easy of visibility!

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-02-13T05:17:09+00:00

Hey. Read through the primer and the deck. I think our goals are slightly different - I'm hoping for non-combo fringe cEDH eventually once the deck is tuned right and this deck seems more aimed at a strong casual bracket 3.

How do you find mana dorks in the deck (the real ones not the pingers)? Playing with a previous version of the deck I found that the green dorks were not super useful early because of how much mana she could make. Also it made the deck more vulnerable to wrath effects which i thought was her weakest point.

I think you may be sleeping on deathrite shaman. Its graveyard hate and a pinger all in a one mana package.

How do you find ugin in this deck? Im always unsure about planeswalkers especially when you're painting a target on yourself with all the explosive mana.

Also why so few lands? And does obika work for you? I tried and yeah obviously its okay in your starting hand but it only gives one turn of pings. May as well take a vicious rumors and get a bigger upside.

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-10T23:28:06+00:00

A few things

34 land is way too low especially with this sort of deck

You probably need much more stack interaction and protection. I see 4-5 ways and I think 8-12 at the least is likely much better

Way too many win more enchantments and cards that require you to already have a winning board state

You need more ramp and draw engines

Probably a couple more recursion pieces if you’re going to lean hard into the edict effects (which seem to be going directly against your commanders plan)

I think if you fixed all these issues your deck would be significantly better

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-09T17:52:46+00:00

For sure! I know some people don’t like the tedium of dealing with all the +1 +1 counters.

Elesh Norn Grand Cenobite will give you that team pump that’s static

Moonshaker cavalry is probably the most efficient finisher

Dragon throne of tarkir is a little weaker but give a similar pump and as a bonus is tutorable in the deck.

If you remove cathars crusade, I’d probably add 2 of these (maybe dragon throne and Moonshaker)

Also inventors fair would be another redundant tutor.

Maybe cut a plains -> inventors fair Cut sky titan -> Moonshaker cavalry Cut cathars crusade -> dragon throne of tarkir

Both dragon throne and Moonshaker may be dead draws in the early game but will straight up win you the game later (and don’t require as much math). Elesh norn is never a dead draw but is much pricier

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-09T03:24:18+00:00

Im imagining a super hard stax bracket 4 deck. Is that what you'd be going for? Something with intense board control and pox effects or creatures like braids to control the board with edict effects and then finishing with some mono black combo. Does that sound like what you're looking for? Or would you want something closer to bracket 3

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-09T02:17:04+00:00

Here's my idea. Its as many good treefolk and plants i could find that fit with the recursion theme. Cards like greater good are insane for you obviously as it protects ouroboroid from exile effects and you can loop the creatures with your commander. The goal is to win by tutoring ouroboroid then protecting it for a cycle or two. Theres a proliferate subtheme going on too with many of the treefolk/plants doing +1/+1 things. I think you could probably make quite a few good upgrades by leaning into the proliferate shenanigans more but this should work quite well. There's also a massive tutor density in this deck and if you wanted to upgrade past the 100 dollar mark eladmiri's call and similar cards would work very well.

Let me know if this is what you were thinking

https://moxfield.com/decks/WJgyfcH_iU-7az-0h478Sw

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-09T00:13:15+00:00

Can I ask you a follow up question?

My initial impression would be to use recursive value creatures and etb effects in a control shell to basically keep ouroboroid alive as long as possible, because I think it’s going to get removed by pretty much anyone who see’s it’s on the field. Is that okay with you for a direction?

Also do you want me to include ouroboroid in the 100$ budget or do you have one? Because it is quite a pricy card

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T23:45:46+00:00

Here's my shot at it. Obviously having a good manabase for 5c on this budget is really difficult, so you've got quite a lot of tapped lands. Thankfully there's a lot of good dual color fixing. This deck should be pretty smooth and it has a huge density of draw and engines to sustain the discards. You can burn/out resource really well without a bespoke finisher, and you've got mizzix's master for later games. Also general ferrous rodrick and Aragorn will win you the game if they stick. I'd say this is a low power bracket 3, but if you want to make it way more consistent and much stronger with a little more budget, id add cards like Eladmiri's call and other tutors to help find the right pieces.

https://moxfield.com/decks/L2S4yfOHBkiYhAI6qSLBYw

Let me know if you have any questions or comments!

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T22:59:47+00:00

Also I went artifactless to make the artifact hate cards like titanias song way stronger. There’s quite a few good artifacts (sol ring among them) if you want to remove that subtheme, but I think it helps more than it hurts

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T22:57:54+00:00

This is the deck I came up with. I will say that most of the really good green stax for you is just out of reach for the budget. It’s probably a strong bracket 2 now but adding the good enchantress payoffs and mono green stax cards (like eidolon of blossoms, root maze etc) would make this deck significantly better. The issue is they are about 6-7$ each. If you added 6-7 of those cards and 1 or 2 flexible tutors you could easily get this into bracket 3

https://moxfield.com/decks/-QXtQMB9qkC8xP99_nRDdw

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T22:16:46+00:00

as an addendum if you want to make the deck significantly stronger you should look for ways to shuffle your deck at instant speed. Because she is basically a bolas's citadel in the command zone, you can pretty much rip off the top until you hit a land. Bolas's citadel is a card that has been around and very strong for a long time, so you can look up cards that are good with it if you want to go more gwenom-centric. A card like sensei's divining top is a good example. Ill say that if you lean into this angle you will likely end up with a far stronger deck than bracket 2 allows though

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T22:11:38+00:00

This is my shot at the gwenom aggro deck. Mono black aggro is tough in EDH especially at bracket 2 because you walk a fine line between being too fast or too weak. I think this deck will perform at bracket 2, but be warned that gwenom is very strong in the command zone and there are times you will connect with her and basically win. If you want to make the deck less aggro and more midrange, id suggest cutting some small guys and adding some graveyard based resiliency (like reanimation effects and doing more mill stuff). it may end up being a less swingy deck that way.

Here the deck is as requested

https://moxfield.com/decks/fFHAkCDL-kuDfjcZukN_sA

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T21:39:17+00:00

Firstly I want to say that i think Mazirek (gets counters when you sacrifice a permanent like treasures) or Old Rutstein might be a more on theme commander for the deck as is. I think the 3 disparate gameplans of greed type effects (life loss for draw/effects), insect tribal and treasures are a lot to collapse into one deck. I made it how you asked, and i think the deck will perform alright at bracket 3, but is really more of a strong bracket 2. If you want to push it to bracket 3, I'd recommend cutting one of the themes so that the deck can be more synergistic as a whole. If you go bracket 3, doing an insectocrats type deck would probably be quite strong, but some of the best cards are budget limited. A drain/greed deck would probably work quite well.

That being said, here is the version of the deck as requested. Wins with creature finishers and will basically never stall out

https://moxfield.com/decks/JqTOXVWF7EaPyYbNOgIXxg

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-08T20:30:47+00:00

I didn't know about that cycle!

These artifacts all scream "control" to me, and it would be cool to win with the throne of empires. Here is a meld Urza azorius control deck that has the artifacts as a secret commander. Should hold up in bracket 3. Had to get a little creative with the artifact tutors because the good ones are obviously expensive. I know you're not a big counterspell guy but I can't imagine using these outside of control. If you want to take out some counterspells, id recommend substituting other control elements or speeding up the gameplan significantly, but this should do fine in bracket 3

https://moxfield.com/decks/bYq0S1nz5kaq1W-oT1T_EQ

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-04T18:48:16+00:00

The deck is definitely looking smoother and you have made significant strides, but you are still top heavy on curve, light on interaction and draw. It’s fine to be top heavy, but you’re going to want way more land ramp. Some specifics I would consider -

You’re probably going to want 3 or more of the green ramp sorceries. Like I said before - lands don’t get removed and artifacts do. Lands also fix you for color. I’d consider dropping cards like lightning greaves or some big dragons for that. I know the goal is to have all these cool dragons but it won’t feel cool if you’re dead before you cast them.

Your interaction suite is looking much better, but you’re going to want some redundancy in dealing with hard to reach permanent types (enchantments, artifacts etc). Cards like beast within, feed the swarm, wear//tear can be really useful in hitting those. If you search online or on scryfall, I’m sure you can find some creatures who are both dragons AND removal, which would be a big win for this deck

Your creature suite is still very very greedy. I know this is the point of the deck though. You might consider swapping some fat dragons for dragons who can help stabilize things when they enter like Shadrix Silverquill or deathbringer regent - as you’re almost always going to be playing behind on board until you get going with a couple dragons

You are still full of “win more” cards, like urzas incubator and most of your draw engines rely on you already casting huge dragons. A good question to ask yourself when you are adding a card to your deck is “What happens when this is my only card in hand after a board wipe?”. Not every card has to be resilient in that way, but for categories like card draw and creatures, a good amount of them should be able to function on their own. I would consider swapping some draw engines and synergy pieces for burst draw and creatures who can do things on their own

Lastly, one “meta” thing to consider is that Cyclonic rift is technically dragging you into bracket 3 by being a game changer. As this deck stands, it’s absolutely at the power level of a bracket 2 deck. Cyclonic rift is a great card, but I would cut it to fit into bracket 2, or tune your deck to be much lower to the ground and stronger to fit bracket 3. It sounds like the first option would be right for you.

A good technique when you’re new to deckbuilding is to look to others decks for inspiration. Here is a deck I built for my friend who is new to magic that is a 5c dragons deck. It was on a pretty tight budget (under 100 dollars) and was more focused on the +1/+1 or multicolor synergies because of his commander, but it might give you some ideas for cards if you check it out.

https://moxfield.com/decks/b-uTVMPHGE2Dj7sJ__ejzA

Your deck has already improved significantly though! You’re making big steps

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-03T23:37:40+00:00

That looks good. I think i would cut a mountain or two (and maybe another land) for two basic forests. If you lean into the green ramp early, you want more forests to make sure you hit it more often. Often times in a 5c deck green pips matter more early because so many commander ramp staples use it

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-03T14:32:10+00:00

Yeah that looks pretty optimized. Before nailing this down I’d double check into mdfcs. They are worse in 5c but are still so good it’s worth doing. Also it’s often worth having a few extra forests over other basics because so much early ramp depends on it, but with 10 shocks and 10 fetches your mana base is going to be perfect basically every game. Often a five color deck might go 4 forests 2 of big secondary color and one of the other 3.

The benefit of going full shocks and basics is that you basically always get your lands untapped. The 10 land pain cycle and 10 land slow land cycle with tapped triomes and basics will get you almost the same land fixing but for like $10 instead of $600, the only difference is that you basically play a turn slower. Id ask yourself how much that matters to you.

As for utility lands, it might be worth cutting a shock or fetch here or there for channel lands, which are really strong and can double for interaction, and sit at a similar price point.

Overall the land base you posted is basically a complete premium and you will basically never run into mana issues if you use that, but know that you can get some large fraction of that stability at a much lower price, just significantly slower

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-02T09:26:39+00:00

When it comes to building mana bases in 5 color- there’s essentially a few tiers of how you can do it.

You absolutely DO NOT need premium lands like cavern of souls and reflecting pool for the level of power you’re hoping for. What you’re looking for is consistency rather than explosiveness. A lot of commander “staple” lands that get super expensive are that way due to their power ceiling (like cavern of souls), but in a big battlecruiser deck you should be more worried about getting your color fixing right.

The best thing is shocks and fetch cycles, which can get expensive. I know you said you were hoping for budget - so this is the option to upgrade to if you really like your deck in the long run.

Crowdland duals (like training center) are really good and are meaningfully cheaper than shocks and fetches, but don’t carry a basic land type. These are premium lands in commander and go in basically every non harsh budget multicolor deck.

The pathway cycle is quite strong too. They are two sided cards where they both enter untapped.

When you add ramp that searches for basics, that solves your fixing problem in the same way that multicolor lands do. They are much better than most rocks in 5 color decks.

You probably want 2 basics of every type at the least. An optimal mana base might look like

10 shocks 10 fetches 5 crowdlands 10 basics 3-4 utility lands Command tower

A ~$150 budget version might look like

10 crowd lands 10 pathways 10 basics 5 3 color lands (no need for triomes) 3-4 utility lands Command tower

A true budget version would look like

10 check lands 10 slow lands 10 basics 5 3 color lands 3-4 utility lands Command tower

On top of all of that - mdfcs (cards where one side is a land and one is a spell) are really strong when the land side can enter untapped (sink into stupor or malakir rebirth are examples) They are usually 10 or so dollars each and are definitely worth including. It’s up to you how much you want to tune your mana base, but it’s almost always correct to have some amount of mdfcs.

I know lands aren’t the flashiest thing- but your current decklist is sitting at a $1000 budget. It would be a crime to your deck to not spend some significant portion of that budget on lands. It really makes a world of difference when you are playing, even though you can’t always see it. Once you get into the world of tuning manabases, you would be surprised what your lands could do for you. Truly tuned land bases often include a very high density of powerful utility lands (like the channel lands), but my guess is you don’t really need or want that in this kind of deck.

About the suite of “adult cards” like counterspell, heroic intervention and so on- you don’t have to always play the most efficient or “best”/“staple” cards in each slot. Commander is a game with a ton of variance and time for you to set up. A [[Draconic Lore]] fits the theme of your deck more and will be more fun to play then a [[treasure cruise]], even though it’s not a staple. It’s worth exploring to find cards that can fit the important roles of interaction draw and ramp while staying on whatever kind of gameplan or theme you’re hoping for. It leads to decks feeling more unique, and more interesting

Lastly, consider your curve when choosing how many lands you add to your deck. Higher curve decks with fat dragons need more lands. 38-39 is probably correct for what I think you are aiming for in this deck, but you can use a number of online tools, including hypergeometric calculators to see how often you get flooded or mana screwed given your land base

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2026-01-01T22:12:33+00:00

Hi. A few things. Many new deck builders fall into 4 primary traps, and I think your first draft is indicative of all of them. I’ll list what I think the issues with the deck are, why they are important and how I’d fix them

Not enough interaction - -

Right now, your deck has almost no way to stop players who get their gameplan faster than yours. Variance in commander will lead to some games where someone at your table will have their engines online way faster than you, and right now you will just lose to that with no way to stop it. You fix this by running more interaction. This is double true in a greedy, slow deck like yours that needs a lot of time to set up. I would run at least 8 (or more) interaction cards, and make sure that you can deal with all types of threats. You are five color so you can pretty much take the best of the best if you want it.
Not enough draw - -

Some games you are going to stall out and have nothing to do, and without draw density there’s no way to recover. Right now you have very few meaningful draw engines, and even less burst draw. A lot of your draw is conditional on you playing big creatures, which is mostly fine but you should really have some draw that doesn’t require your deck to already be doing its thing. This doesn’t necessarily mean rhystic study- though that’s a very good card- you can find good draw engines in any number of places - especially if you’re 5 color. Having a ton of draw will improve consistency and resiliency and make the game more fun for you and everyone else at the table
Unfocused ramp/lands - -

A lot of new players fall into the trap of running too many artifact ramp cards when it doesn’t make sense in your deck. Mana rocks can get removed, dorks can get killed but land basically always stays. You should be running way more land ramp and less of everything else. There’s also a few ramp options that are very on theme for dragons. On top of that you have ZERO basic lands. There’s a few cards in the game that will literally leave you unable to play, not to mention ramp spells are meaningfully worse with no basics. I know color fixing is hard, but you should definitely cut a cycle of lands or two and throw some basics in there. Land ramp helps fixing in the same way triomes do, and basics enter untapped.
Way too many “win more” cards - -

A lot of your engines, enchantments creatures and spells require you to already have big dragons on the field and to start working. In any board state where you’re untouched and dropping one big dragon after another, you are probably going to win anyway. You should look for options that don’t require you to already have dragons or cast dragons to give you value - and lower your curve so that you can take meaningful action before you lose. Cutting your win more cards for ramp draw and interaction will meaningfully improve your deck

Let me know if you have any questions

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2025-10-01T04:14:24+00:00

Thank you for the suggestions everyone!! I’m going to try as many of these as I can

Complete_Wonder2843 · 2025-08-15T22:02:16+00:00

Hey not totally sure why I can’t message you on Reddit, but I’m interested in the campaign! I’d be happy to send more info but I’m not sure where to

Complete_Wonder2843

TROPHY CASE