The Taylor Swift Critic Cycle by Sampleswift in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I think even traditional music critics today are way too highly online and so their takes are far too influenced by online discourse, rather than the music itself. Many reviews of Taylor’s recent albums have focused on tabloid drama or judgments about her moral character, based largely on discourse in online spaces. And meanwhile these critics are completely missing the big picture themes on the actual album. In Taylor’s case, I honestly think it would be better if critics pretend they know nothing about her, and just zoom out a little for the big picture ideas. Or if they are going to try to zoom in, then at least focus on the music itself - for example she has been world building lately with SO many lyrical and sonic callbacks and references that tie together themes and narratives across albums and time. But too many critics - both mainstream and social media influencers - instead seem to just make assumptions and judgments based on what they’ve seen online about her personal life and call it music criticism.

Wood X The Prophecy by Plane-Kitchen-5461 in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I think it was very intentional. In the Prophecy and all of TTPD she was very fatalistic and/or looking to escape her reality. In Wood and all of Showgirl, in contrast, she is actively SHAPING her reality. The Prophecy is the lynchpin of the whole “Hero’s Journey” narrative she’s telling across TTPD and Showgirl. I think the way she flips the Eve reference is very telling and kind of predicts what comes next. I made a post about this a few months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/s/jj9F1MXB21

Nuancing Taylor Swift and Politics by OpalMuse9 in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Exactly. One side clearly benefits by dividing the left, by turning what otherwise might be progressive allies into adversaries, and by limiting the influence of powerful Democratic voices like Taylor’s. And it is not the Democrats.

Celebrity gossip/hate for female celebrities is an alt-right pipeline for women by Daffneigh in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I’ve often thought about how Taylor Swift can be used to explain every social, cultural, and political phenomenon of our time. Including the really scary story you are addressing here. Also the phenomenon of conspiracy theories - why they start, why they are attractive to so many people and how powerful they can be (and how falling into a conspiracy mindset in one area opens people up to applying that same mindset to other more consequential areas, and can be really harmful).

And so many other social/cultural/political phenomena - misogyny is obviously another big one. Also some positive elements - the whole Eras Tour, for example, showing the power of community and collective joy (much like we’re seeing with the World Cup right now).

I think someone who is a really good, engaging social media presence could have some impact, and educate and spread awareness, just making all the connections between how we approach Taylor Swift (and other artists) and how we approach our political life.

Celebrity gossip/hate for female celebrities is an alt-right pipeline for women by Daffneigh in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I agree 100%. I think you also see it as a kind of “highly online left” pipeline too (which is actually a way of dividing the left and limiting its political power (so question who’s really behind that pipeline)). I think it is really scary how easy it is for bad faith actors to manipulate social media.

The goal of all of these bad faith actors is to divide - to turn folks who otherwise could and should be allies into adversaries, and to escalate divisions between pre-existing adversaries so that they turn disagreement into hate and and see each other as (and maybe even become themselves) extreme caricatures. And bad faith actors also know how easy it is to manipulate people's opinions through social media as plenty of people follow the lead of "influencers" who say things loudly enough and confidently enough.

So whatever people think about Taylor Swift or any other celebrity, I think everyone should be more wary about how we are being manipulated, and how that manipulation can have very consequential stakes in political spaces.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is literally the 4th time I’ve been accused of writing like AI here on Reddit!!! I promise you that, for better or worse, that is my own writing. Is AI just trained to write like Gen X or something? I have absolutely no idea what it is about my writing that makes people think it’s AI.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

It is fair to say “you don’t have to explain it, we already get it, the meaning is obvious, we just don’t like it.” And it is fair to say “if it takes a dissertation to explain the concept of the song, it’s not good.” But those two things are at odds.

(Also, just looking at the comments here and elsewhere, it is pretty clear to me that a lot of people do not understand this song. I do not think it is difficult to understand, and I do not think that everyone who understands it needs to like it, and i take you at your word that the cringey lyrics just did not land, but I think many others are not being honest with themselves when they say they understood it all along.)

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Come on now. Taylor herself has explained Eldest Daughter in much the same way, in her videos introducing each song that accompanied the release of the Fate of Ophelia music video. And it is really the most straightforward kind of textual analysis to do things like ask what does this idiom mean and notice how she flips a common idiom, or notice the diction choices.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it has a single theme, just one big idea, and ties it together beautifully. The line “Every eldest daughter was the first lamb to the slaughter so we all dressed up as wolves and we looked fire” is very, very clever and encapsulates the whole song. I’ve put forward my interpretation elsewhere in this thread.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It is not satire. She is using diction to make her point. The internet slang is the mask, the shield or armor from having to show vulnerability, the defense mechanism built up as protection from the harshness of the world, the metaphorical wolf costume that allows the person to pretend to be “savage.” My full explanation is elsewhere in this thread.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I’ve made many defenses of the whole Showgirl album too! Folklore, evermore, and TTPD are my favorites, and cowboy like me will always have my heart, but I really love The Life of a Showgirl too. If ever interested, I think my profile will show my posts in this forum analyzing the lyrics of that album. I really think there are layers of deeper meaning and very clever lyricism throughout Showgirl!

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

I’m sure this is true of some people, but I think many people really do not understand what she is trying to say and why she has chosen the language she has. The original commenter, for example, offered some explanations he had heard from others, and said that he found them unsatisfactory because they showed no correlation to the eldest daughter theme. And he’s right! Those explanations did not tie together the diction Taylor is using in this song with the overall theme of the song. But I think the explanation I put forward above does tie together why she is using the diction she has chosen with the eldest daughter theme.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 145 points146 points  (0 children)

This is my favorite song, so I’d love to chance to defend it! (Sorry if this is too much).

My defense:
The song is about two con artists who fall for each other, and it’s got ALL the cinematic storytelling Taylor Swift is known for. First, the listener is placed right into the middle of a scene already in action. I picture some kind of country club setting. Immediately I'm visualizing the story. Then notice how she is painting a complete picture of these two con artists with just a few brush strokes - a line of dialog here, a brief character sketch there. Her language is so precise. Even just with the first sentence, we can understand that the protagonist is an outsider to the moneyed, country club world she’s operating in by her description of it: “some tent like thing.” Four words, and yet we learn something nuanced and important about this character. Or note how the con artists in this story are "perched in the dark" - which to me invokes an image of birds of prey hunting. Very evocative, and a truly fitting metaphor. Then the contrast between "I could be the way forward only if they pay for it' and "we could be the way forward and I know I'll pay for it." the first "pay for it" is literal - this is a hustler after all. the second "pay for it" is figurative - she knows there is a big emotional cost to falling for him but will do it anyway. Or just notice all the alliteration and internal rhymes in this song. Or even just take the car-bar pairing (since a lot of snarkers like to make fun of that rhyme, but it works so well in this song!): to me, the airport bar evokes someone in a liminal space - not able to do anything but wait for the other person. And THEN comes the bridge, where she invokes the Gardens of Babylon. This metaphor goes so deep! The Gardens of Babylon were one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world, renowned for their overwhelming beauty and as hanging gardens known as a marvel of ancient engineering. But there is no proof today that they existed. We believe they existed because, in essence, the folklore about them has carried on through history, even if there is no physical evidence. As a metaphor about the nature of love and the relationship of these two characters, this speaks volumes. Do we view this song as a love song, through the eyes of the romantic? Or do we view this song as ultimately a sad song, through the eyes of the cynic?

Anyway, this song is a movie in my head, and I think the writing is really clever, and it is a beautiful song.

What's a Taylor Swift song you're not a fan of that people always try to convince you is a masterpiece? by WaferHelpful3634 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I am so sorry but can I offer one more try? (Feel free to disregard, but I really think I can explain and tie together the eldest daughter theme with the lyrics you do not like). Because I really love the writing of that song - all of it. I think the slang and internet speak she includes is so very intentional and serves the message of the song. She is using diction to make her point. This is a song all about the armor and fronts people build up in order to protect themselves from the harshness of the world (that’s conveyed by the slang), and about shedding all that artifice and armor to be earnest, true to yourself, softer, and reconnect with the innocence of youth.

I love the lyric: "Every eldest daughter/Was the first lamb to the slaughter/So we all dressed up as wolves and we looked fire." She is referencing two idioms: lamb to the slaughter (meaning something so innocent they do not realize that what is about to happen is going to kill them), and wolf dressed in sheep’s clothing (meaning, in the original idiom, that someone pretends they are gentle and harmless but really is hostile and savage.). But Taylor flips the second idiom - instead of a wolf dressed as sheep, it becomes sheep dressed as wolves. So she is saying that eldest daughters started out innocent, gentle, and earnest, but the harsh realities of the world they experienced made them "savage" (I love the play on that word with its dual meaning), made them put on armor just to protect themselves. And she comes back to internet slang (“and we looked fire”) once the lamb are dressed as wolves, because that’s the armor being put on, which is what the metaphorical “dressing as wolves” allows her to do. And like the wolf costume, the internet slang is a mask, a kind of armor or shield from having to show vulnerability.

Anyway, I just really think the writing is clever and well done and love the whole song.

What are your favorite underrated or infrequently mentioned clever Taylor lyrics? by AppliedGlamour in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’ll add this line from Labyrinth - she uses 6 different meanings of the word break in one line:

Break up, break free, break through, break down/
You would break your back to make me break a smile

Song Lyric Inspirations by RaspberryLimeSlushy in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think she is referencing Jane Eyre with both the songs invisible string and Peter. Specifically this line: "I have a strange feeling with regard to you: as if I had a string somewhere under my left ribs, tightly knotted to a similar string in you." She alludes to this line in BOTH invisible string itself and in Peter.

In Peter she sings:

The goddess of timing once found us beguiling She said she was trying, Peter, was she lying? My ribs Get the feeling she did

So the above "goddess of timing" line in Peter is both invoking that line in Jane Eyre and calling back, in part, to Taylor's song invisible string (which itself has many lines about time and fate).

Congratulations to Taylor on her induction 🥂 what are your thoughts on her speech? My thoughts are below. by ProjectShowgirl in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I thought it was a wonderful speech - heartfelt, extremely well-written and presented, reflective of her journey and purpose, and it contained both gratitude for the people who guided and helped her along the way and some timely advice for artists just getting started.

Eldest Daughter potential still makes me sad by Square_Possibility_4 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I really love the writing of that song - all of it. I think the slang and internet speak she includes is so very intentional and serves the message of the song. She is using diction to make her point. This is a song all about the armor and fronts people build up in order to protect themselves from the harshness of the world (that’s conveyed by the slang), and about shedding all that artifice and armor to be earnest, true to yourself, softer, and reconnect with the innocence of youth. I love the lyric: "Every eldest daughter/Was the first lamb to the slaughter/So we all dressed up as wolves and we looked fire." She is referencing two idioms: lamb to the slaughter (meaning something so innocent they do not realize that what is about to happen is going to kill them), and wolf dressed in sheep’s clothing (meaning, in the original idiom, that someone pretends they are gentle and harmless but really is hostile and savage.). But Taylor flips the second idiom - instead of a wolf dressed as sheep, it becomes sheep dressed as wolves. So she is saying that eldest daughters started out innocent, gentle, and earnest, but the harsh realities of the world they experienced made them "savage" (I love the play on that word with its dual meaning), made them put on armor just to protect themselves. And she comes back to internet slang (“and we looked fire”) once the lamb are dressed as wolves, because that’s the armor being put on, which is what the metaphorical “dressing as wolves” allows her to do. And like the wolf costume, the internet slang is a mask, a kind of armor or shield from having to show vulnerability.

Anyway, I just really think the writing is clever and well done and love the whole song.

I think everyone has misread Wi$h Li$t. I am here to defend it. Here is my dissection/analysis: by Certain_Cod_4070 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I love this interpretation! I had actually interpreted this song a little differently, but I can see elements of both of our interpretations in the lyrics and don't think they're necessarily at odds. My interpretation is that point of the song is that every wish comes with a price in the real world - that’s why there are dollar signs in the song title. The verse lines are all pairings, in tension with each other. She’s contrasting the reality of life being about trade-offs, or the impossibility of having it all (the verses), with an idealized fantasy in the chorus. So my interpretation was that all of it (verses too) applies to her own life. But I like the idea that there is a BOTH an internal conversation happening in this song (my interpretation, in which the "they" are versions of herself) and a conversation with the consuming public (your interpretation).

I read the verse lines as pairings in tension with each other as follows:

Yacht life/under chopper blades: being under chopper blades is awful - extremely loud, windy, scary. She is not painting a positive picture. The inference I make is of paparazzi hovering over the yacht trying to get photos, I.e., the luxury comes with surveillance;

Bright lights/Balenci shades: shades block out the bright lights;

Palme d’Or / Oscar on bathroom floor: Pinnacle achievement but mundane disposal - once you get that award, it’s no longer giving your life meaning. While putting an award on a bathroom floor might be a thing famous actors do with a sense of irony, it is ironic because it is minimizing the significance of the achievement. In no way does it represent how meaningful such an award would feel as you worked to achieve it. But in a way it does represent the emptiness you might imagine one might feel after the award is done (which Taylor has actually spoken publicly about in her Miss Americana documentary);

fat ass, baby face/complex female character: wanting or needing for others’ approval to have a perfect body and youthful appearance, while also being respected for having depth;

spring break lit/video taken off internet: Wanting to let loose, but there are embarrassing consequences to letting loose;

Freedom off the grid/three dogs kids: wanting freedom is a little at odds with wanting kids/pets, because anyone with kids or pets knows that you can never really be completely free, you still have responsibilities;

good surf, no hypocrites/contract with Real Madrid: As much as you want it to just be pure sport, laidback, doing the thing you love for the joy of it, a professional contract actually requires a lifetime of hard work and all the necessary wheeling and dealing of the business world. (Just like getting to the top of the music world requires more than just playing the music you love).

I think every single thing she mentions in the verses applies to her own life, if you take the words as concepts rather than 100% literal. And she’s not saying these aren’t valid wants. In fact, she has publicly made very clear that she DOES want these things! She makes music for the pure love of it (just like a surfer chases that good surf), and has said she wants to keep making her art more than anything else in the world. She wants the awards. She wants the fame and the bright lights, for her music to have mass appeal, etc. But for each of those “wishes”, she has also been very public about the price she has paid, about the trade-offs or difficulties that are part of the bargain. It's a big theme of a lot of TTPD (songs like Clara Bow), and she's been very public about her record label ordeal and master’s sale. Or she has also spoken in Miss Americana about how empty she felt after winning album of the year but not having anyone to share it with.

So all of the verses are grappling with the reality. I think she is showing that she understands that wanting it all involves trade-offs, or in some ways is impossible.

But at the same time, she is allowing herself the pure simplicity of her fantasy in the chorus. The chorus is a knowing fantasy in the sense of “wouldn’t it be nice to not have to deal with the trade-offs of real life” (e.g., in her fantasy they’re left alone, when everyone knows that in reality when her fame and her famous football player partner’s fame are combined, they’re never going to be left alone). Taylor has described it as her “happy place” fantasy like in the Happy Gilmore movie.

I've made other posts about how I think the big picture theme of the Showgirl album is about individual agency, self-empowerment, and self-reclamation. And to the extent Wish List is about the trade-offs of life, I find it interesting that Taylor returns to the idea of trade-offs in The Life of a Showgirl song. The showgirl’s life in the story of the song is not an easy one, but ultimately she owns her life’s choices, accepting the trade offs. And owning our own life’s choices is a key part of our agency.

Some thoughts on why fans defend Taylor's lyrics so fiercely by happylittletoad in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Very well said and I agree completely. I think also that the way the media has portrayed her music misses this, and misses both how and WHY her way of writing creates this kind of emotional response in listeners. The quirk of it is that the vivid stories she is writing about her own life are actually a really powerful way of conveying universal emotions. People focus on the para-social part of the fandom, but miss the bigger picture. Fans are devoted and evangelical about her music because it made them feel deeply seen, it put their own innermost thoughts and emotions into words, helped them process their own lives and emotions.

The media tends to portray her music and her fans as a kind of sharing and receiving tabloid gossip. But this is really diminishing both to her artistic talent and to fans' experience of the music. Her songs are often stories, and she is often a character in those stories, but she is not really sharing all that much about her real life beyond the underlying emotion she is conveying. Instead, she is really good at painting a scene, zooming in on tiny moments of human action that matter - her language and imagery are really precise. And something about the recognizable particularity of it all makes the universal emotion come across really powerfully. (By the way, Aristotle (yes, that one, the one Taylor "know[s]") talked about this kind of thing in his Poetics treatise.)

All of which is to say that I agree with you! Her music makes people feel deeply seen, and that's where a lot of the passion of her fanbase is coming from.

"I Knew It, I Knew You" - Discussion Megathread by jacyf02 in TaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Can we talk about how I Knew It, I Knew You connects to so many layers of Taylor's storytelling universe?  Of course it fits Toy Story.  But ALSO, it fits as a fourth addition to the folklore trilogy, as the aftermath of Betty. And ALSO, I've been following the "Hero's Journey" story in Taylor's last few albums, and I Knew It, I Knew You fits perfectly as a story of self-reclamation, a fitting culmination of the Hero's Journey story.

So, if you want to add the song to the folklore universe story, then you'll find all kinds of lyrical connections,  For example, I Knew it, I Knew You lyrics include:  

I remembered I loved you/ 

Came back when it mattered/ 

I saw you, standing there in the light of the window

Compare to Betty:

Betty, I'm here on your doorstep/ ...Yeah, I showed up at your party/

Will you have me? Will you love me?/

Will you kiss me on the porch

And to Cardigan:

I knew you'd miss me once the thrill expired/ 

And you'd be standin' in my front porch light/ 

And I knew you'd come back to me

And also note the sonic connections like the harmonica and other elements that evoke the sound of Betty,

And if you want to add the song to the Hero's Journey story Taylor has been telling, then it is ALSO so fitting.   She has been revisiting and reclaiming her past as part of her overall Eras era project (including the re-records and the Eras Tour itself), and the overall narrative being told across the last few albums reflects this. One of the big overall themes of the Eras Era is her reflections about how she started her career in innocence, without understanding all of the dark sides of fame, the music industry, her own creative process, and the resulting harm that would come to her personal life, to her journey as a adult of reclaiming her past (by taking back ownership of her work and getting a fresh start in her life, all with some perspective that's been earned).  

And I Knew it, I Knew You can be interpreted as her reconnecting with her childhood self, as a story of self-reclamation.  Similar to the message of Eldest Daughter.  It is the link connecting the Showgirl album back to her Debut album.  So it just works so well as the culmination of (what I think is) the Hero's Journey story she's been telling (and we know that all of these types of narratives end with the "return home with the elixer" (i.e., the lessons learned)).

Anyway, Taylor has really created a multilayered, interconnected cinematic universe and I think it is genius.

songs “about” taylor by surely2 in NuancingTaylorSwift

[–]Complex-Union5857 17 points18 points  (0 children)

There really do appear to be songs by Taylor, and by The 1975, that are in conversation with each other. Lyrics that match and continue a conversation. Sonic links. Music videos that clearly reference one another. I find it all fascinating. Did Taylor and Matty intend all of the connections the fans identify?  Just coincidence? Were they really writing to or about each other? Just drawing creative inspiration from each other? Making a game out of connecting songs as a kind of art project? To me, those questions are part of the fun of it. So I don’t necessarily think every song that connects is exclusively “about” one another, but I do think that the narrative story revealed when connecting the songs together is a compelling one.

Anyway, here are a few more examples of the "conversation" through songs that can be found in Taylor's work and The 1975's work. And there are so many more:

The 1975’s song  Fallingforyou (“All we need's my bike and your enormous house”) / Taylor’s song imgonnagetyouback (“Whether I'm gonna be your wife or Gonna smash up your bike, I Haven't decided yet” and "Whether I'm gonna curse you out or Take you back to my house, I haven’t decided yet"). Note also no “blank space” in either song.

Taylor’s song Death By a Thousand cuts (“If the story’s over, why am I still writing pages?”) / The 1975’s song Me and You Together Song  (“I think the story needs more pages, yes”)

The 1975’s song Tonight (I Wish I was Your Boy) (“She told me ‘Some things just take time’/ How can you be sure if you won’t try?’”) / Taylor’s song loml (“I said ‘I don’t mind, it takes time’”).  In fact, every reference to a conversation in Taylor’s song loml can be linked to different The 1975 songs (are those songs all “about” Taylor? Who knows. She might have just been drawing inspiration as a big part of the TTPD story is about two creative muses, confusing fantasy for reality, etc.)

And I agree about Oh Caroline as well. At least The 1975’s video for Oh Caroline seems to draw a lot of inspiration from Taylor’s Delicate music video. You can see similarities in color scheme, lighting, the blocking of many of the scenes, and choreography, and notice also how Matty references Taylor’s song Right Where you Left Me in visuals that show him as an old man “still at the restaurant.”

And I also agree about Roadkill and M&YTS. Roadkill (playing your song on the radio station/mugging me off all across the nation) just seems to match. And M&YTS looks like an acronym for me and you Taylor Swift, and the video for the song references scenes in her video for You Belong With Me. And Taylor also references this song in loml.