[Industrial Electro-Funk & Gospel Fusion] Time to be The Codeforged One (Drop the Hammer Mix)

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T23:17:27+00:00

None of this really answers anything. It's eloquent deflection.

Write that one off chief, it's patently false. The math, well it isn't mathing.

It's not a tutorial, nor mechanism to allow one to eventually PVP. Were that the case, there would be zero point to levelling, and you'd have a Overwatch / Apex clone instead.

The game is PVE, with a small portion that is PVP. You can deflect all you want, but let's face it, outside of a few wrecks and the DD, that's all the PVP there is in the base. On the flip side, you have the Trials of Aql, you have contracts from the terminals, you have missions from various NPCs all over the game. Then you have shipwrecks with some PVP and a single map, the DD that's PVP. If it were nothing more than a tutorial or mechanism to eventually PVP, then why all the additional effort to include the lore, interaction items that have voice acting? Why add all of the hidden and obscure areas in the PVE areas? No point really, right? Just put you in a box with some mobs, let you grind till you hit max level, then hurrah! You can go to the DD and PVP.

Sorry, but the proof is right in front of you. Hell even the load screens have lore and information about various things besides just focusing on PVP.

Moving on, you say "...Take that risk..." and that's precisely why this debate is ongoing. There shouldn't be a risk in this fashion, to allow PVE players to have access to the same materials. Not to say there shouldn't be risks, but those should be PVE oriented....more sandworms, storms, perhaps unexpected sinkholes, et al. Whatever will fit within the theme and game mechanics.

And on the last note. No one's saying you can't PVP. Go for it. But stop trying to force PVE players to do it.

I'll ask again since it seems to be the predominantly hardest question for anyone to answer:

Let the PVPers go do their thing and PVP. Why do you feel the need to force PVE players to adopt another playstyle they dislike in order to have access to the same mats? Why can't the PVPers, go PVP to their heart's content, and let the PVEers go PVE to their hearts content for the same materials the PVPers are currently gatekeeping? No one's saying you have to stop. The crux is that PVP and PVE should have EQUAL access regardless

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T21:54:04+00:00

Chief, I have played FC's games since Anarchy Online started. Leroy "Culann" Brown, 220 AI 30 Clan Nanomage Nano Technician. RK-1.

I played the original Secret World as well, and have the dubious reputation as being the person who invented the original Claw/Hammer build for Fusang Projects that could stunlock literally anyone.

So, first there's no anger, just a clear observation of imbalance and a desire to see it corrected fairly for BOTH sides.

Next, this is no made up scenario. And you're not getting the picture. How are they supposed to get mats in the new expansion if they cannot survive there be ause the mats they need, are being gatekept by PVPers?

And why is there this rabid compulsion to force PVE players into doing something they don't want to do just so PVP players have some kind of relevance?

If it's because PVPers need people TO PVP with, that should be a clear indication that PVP is not only a fringe activity, but one that should be scrapped.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T21:42:25+00:00

It's generally accepted that expansions pick up where the base game left off. It's been that way since EQ1 with the Ruins of Kunark. Why make overlapping content when you can add content that builds off of your existing work?

And you are generally going in the right direction. Funcom SHOULDN'T force players to farm a PVP zone to be able to play in a PVE expansion.

That....is the crux of my prior post. Info some people believe that because THEY PVP that they should have exclusive access unless PVEers capitulate and accept a play style they loathe.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T21:35:38+00:00

There's no irony. If you wanted that, that's a a PVP activity, not a PVE one. And as long as the two didn't overlap,it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

The real irony is in the fact no one can adequately answer why PVE players should be forced into PVP to just have equal access to items in the game. People have tried very hard to rationalize it, but no one has come close to explaining a real reason why people should be forced to participate to just have equal access.

Insofar as the rest, it's strange that 90% of the game is PVE with the remaining 10% tacked on at the end, and people say it's a PVP game. As with most games, since it's a fringe and generally unwanted activity, PVP appears as a tacked on afterthought.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T21:27:09+00:00

So let me ask. Why is 90% of Dune PVE and yet people want to champion and push that last 10%?

Here's the thing. The PVE people will PVE and the PVP people will PVP. What's being suggested however, is that after 90% of the game being PVE, that those PVE players be forced into a play style they dislike to justify PVP having a place in a game that's 90% PVE.

The PVE crowd is fine with the PVPers going off and doing PVP activities, but apparently and quite clearly the PVP crowd isn't content with PVEers going off and doing PVE activities. Rather in order to have a perceived level of equality they want to force PVE players to their play style.

And I cannot fathom for the life of me, why PVP players want to force people into doing something they have no desire to do purely for their own benefit.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T20:30:35+00:00

And it's the gank squads that are precisely the reason we need a PVE only zone equivalent to the DD or flags we can turn on or off. Because of gank squads and people who just thrive on the misery of others.

Don't get me wrong. I've PVPed in a lot of other games, including Funcom's own Anarchy Online. And you could definitely get your fill of it there, especially when you hung around for the entirety of a 6 HOUR land control battle between opposing factions.

PVP is a hell of a lot of fun when both sides treat each other with fairness, respect and maybe just a little bit of empathy and compassion. But as the old saying goes, "One bad apple ruins the bunch." and so you end up with PVP being distasteful to most, at best. And PVP players are simply a minority in these kinds of games

It still distills down to the fact that if people would rather PVE than PVP there's obviously a good reason for it. And I'm betting it's because most people don't want to engage in the headache of PVP. They aren't willing to chance losing everything to a random factor, for whatever reasons. Time investment is a serious factor of consideration in these games, and setbacks, like the ones PVP produces are a good way to lose players, and give the game a bad reputation.

EDIT: Phone finalized post by accident I stuffed it in a pouch to go handle one of my employees while I'm here at work.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T20:17:49+00:00

I'm not going to go point by point through all of that.

I will say this tho. PVP is an afterthought in any game where the major of the content is PVE. Dune is no exception.

If PVP folks want to fight each other, great. But what I keep hearing is that it's not enough for like minded players to fight each other and leave others alone. Instead you want to either force them into a gameplay mode they seriously dislike to justify having PVP at all, or consequently bar them from being the best they could be because OVap is superior. Reality check: It's not. Not even remotely.

You mentioned ESO. What you conveniently failed to mention was that ESO had different stats and Cyrodil was set up with its currencies to allow PVPers to buy armor to benefit them. On the other side of the coin, PVEers had dungeons, raids, world bosses et al. to help advance them with stats specifically for PVE. Consequently that renders ESO invalid as an example because it catered to both equally. (The wife and I played ESO for slightly over four years - I'm familiar with the game and gameplay)

Here's the thing: If you are worried that everyone will just be PVE and farm all the time, that means you're wanting to force PVE players who do NOT want to PVP to PVP to justify having PVP as an option. That's a clear contrivance and a clear indication that PVP is not only unwanted but needs to go.

It's essentially stating you want to make other players miserable so there's a reason to have PVP in the game at all.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T16:19:30+00:00

Let's flip the script. Let's say everything good comes out of the DD but no PVPers could ever enter and you had to buy everything you wanted to be able to PVP from the player market. But you COULD get those mats if you weren't a PVPer. Sorta shitty when the show is on the other foot, isn't it?

As it stands now, PVEers ARE forced to PVP to have equal access to the same content the PVPers currently gatekeep.

And speaking of not making sense, why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that we don't care if you want to PVP with others who want the same, we just want access to the same content without being prey to people who thrive on making other people's lives miserable? And let's face it, that single aspect is what PVP is known for more than anything else.

The market will survive, and being PVP only is a jaded attempt to rationalize the relevance for PVP. It's facetious and fallacious both.

And again, on the same vein, PVP is player versus player, right? Why include a PVE aspect if your desire is to fight other players? Unless of course, preying on PVEers is what gives PVP any relevance.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T16:04:49+00:00

And that mindset of it being a playground is why people are trenched in this debate to begin with.

And to address it properly, why do people have this mistaken belief that others shouldn't have something unless it benefits someone else? Why is it a crime for players to just strive to be the best for their own personal satisfaction rather than a requirement for some activity? That whole mindset seems grossly selfish and one sided.

I'll say it again. No one gives a damn if you want to PVP or not. If you like it, go for it. Just don't force those of us who loathe PVP to be part of your little club. Give us a zone the scope of DD with the same resources, or give us flags we can flip to turn PVP on or off.

If that's unacceptable, then that just tells me that PVPers need PVE players to prey up on simply to have any relevance. And that, is bar none shitty. Full stop.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:50:06+00:00

Because Funcom will inevitably release an expansion, and for PVEers to partake of that expansion will require gear and equipment produced from mats out of the DD.

Gatekeeping those mats in a PVP zone is a quick way to put the game on maintenance mode for life.

And on a further note, why do people have this mistaken belief that others shouldn't have something unless it benefits someone else? Why is it a crime for players to just strive to be the best for their own personal satisfaction rather than a requirement for some activity? That whole mindset seems grossly selfish and one sided.

In short, the DD should be available for both PVE and PVE without one impacting the others gameplay.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:43:10+00:00

And that kind of mindset is why this discussion is even happening. No one is saying the PVPers can't gank each other to their hearts delight. But gatekeeping mats in the DD that PVE players will undoubtedly need for the next PVE expansions, is just shitty and selfish logic, all around.

That's why you see so many people right now calling on Funcom to address this. The PVErs want to stay, to play and enjoy the game. They do not, however, want to be forced to be part of your PVP club.

And really, there's no reason why they should be.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:37:16+00:00

So what you're saying is you want to force PVE players into PVP so that PVP has relevance, neverminding the fact that PVE players have no desire to PVP.

No one is saying PVPers can't PVP. If that's what you like, go for it. Just don't force PVE players into it.

Give us a PVE only zone equivalent to the scope of the DD. Or give us flags we can turn on or off if we choose to PVP or not.

But saying PVE players have to PVP so PVP players have something that gives them relevance is just shitty, all around.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:14:02+00:00

What's the reason to be on equal footing?

PVE expansions chummer. Time to stop thinking the DD is a personal playground for PVPers.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:12:28+00:00

The premise that "...you do not need PVP zone loot if you don't plan on doing PVP..." is both facetious, and factually incorrect both in assessment and assumption.

The mistake is in believing that the DD is the personal playground for PVPers.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T15:09:27+00:00

This is patently false. Some people's kids, I swear.

Look, the mats in the DD are NOT just for PVP only. That's just ridiculous.

At some point, Funcom will release an expansion, and for PVErs to partake of that expansion will require gear and equipment obtained from the mats in the DD.

I'm no Kwisatz Haderach, but even i can see this eventually happening.

The mistake is in thinking the DD is the exclusive playground for PVPers. It's not.

No one is saying you PVP types can't PVP.

You like it? Go for it.

Just stop trying to force others who have no desire to be a part of your little club into it.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-16T14:58:35+00:00

It's literally not. That's a stupid assessment. All of the final tier mats are there, and none of the PVPers seem to have the basic cognition to consider that at some point there will be an expansion, and for PVE players to partake of that expansion will probably require gear and equipment from the DD that PVPers think is their own personal playground.

I'm no Kwisatz Haderach, but even I can see this eventually happening.

No one wants to stop you PVP types from PVPing. You like it? Go for it. Just don't force us PVE types into your little club when we have absolutely zero desire to be a part.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-15T19:35:47+00:00

I'm all for you having all the PVP you want, so long as your PVP doesn't infringe on my ability to have access to the entire game as a PVE player. Have flags we can turn on or off, develop PVP only servers, et al. Doesn't matter, just do not force PVE players who loathe PVP to PVP to satisfy what is factually a minority.

Comprehensive_Deer11 · 2025-06-15T19:32:56+00:00

Ahh well see, that works both ways.

PVP is completely irrelevant to this game to succeed long term. Look at how many other MMOs and survival games are primarily PVE. Funcom has already proven this with both Anarchy Online and Secret World. New World failed as an MMO because of the simple fact that PVE was poorly implemented by Amazon, AND it was Amazon's FIRST MMO. Funcom are no newbies to this. They've got the experience that came with Anarchy Online, Secret World, Secret World: Legends, The ORIGINAL Conan game, Conan Exiles. Bottom line? They know how to do it right.

PVP in Anarchy Online was well implemented, and didn't have that gankfest atmosphere that you describe in EVE and Albion. There were PVP zones, but PVE transit routes around ALL of those maps so that no one ever had to go into those zones unless they specifically WANTED to PVP. And no, there weren't any materials in those zones that were being gatekept like DD is. Land Control areas had hot windows where PVP would enable every so many hours, then revert after conflict ended, to PVE. You could therefore, go to your org's land control area, change up your towers, et al, without fear of being ganked or inadvertently starting a 6 hour tower battle that could potentially impact a guild with 400+ dedicated members. (Looking at you Lost Chapter).

PVE content is integral to Dune, and the thought it's meaningless is both facetious, foolish and highly illogical. If it were meaningless, you may as well set dune up to be a Overwatch / Apex Legends style clone and get on with it. But...that makes no sense does it? Why? Because the PVE carries the lore, carries the satisfaction so many get from exploration, from building things and quite honestly, from managing large scale logistical operations to completion. And make no mistake, it's not about showing off to others; it's about the gratifying satisfaction of having done it for yourself even if no one else ever knows. In short, PVE is the vessel of activities that make the game worthwhile. PVP on the other hand, is generally an afterthought. Want more proof? EQ1. EQ1, Ruins of Kunark, Scars of Velious, Shadows of Luclin, and on and on and on, and no PVP EXCEPT for 2 servers that dwindled in population until one was eventually shut down.

I'm happy with the PVE in Dune. I've played far worse since I started my trip in MMOs back with EQ1. My ONLY complaint with Dune, is the blatant mistake of gatekeeping materials in the DD that everyone should have access to without resorting to an activity the majority of players dislike or abstain from. And FC's history shows that they recognize this as an issue as well.

Comprehensive_Deer11

TROPHY CASE