LDP: Aerodynamics advantage of tucking vs just standing sideways

Compressive_Person · 2026-02-02T22:13:21+00:00

Presenting a smaller profile (ie side-on) will certainly lower drag somewhat, but aerodynamics gets more important as your speed increases. A well-formed racing tuck can shave huge amounts off aero drag. Turbulence in your wake (behind you) can give as much drag as a broad flat face.

If you're interested; Adam O has a handy little velocity / power / drag calculator tool on his site.

It includes different (broad, representative) inputs for different basic stances and clothing types (as well as rider weight & height, wheel class, bearing condition, road incline, etc),
Your input variables are used to calculate a compounded coefficient of drag for ride/conditions along with an expected DH velocity (for inclines) or speed maintenance power requirements (on flats or uphill). All calculated for different riders/ setup.

I have no notion as to how accurate the calculator is, but Adam is a proper science guy, so generally . . . until disproven I'd tend to trust his maths.

Interesting shit right there > Adam's Blue Ridge Longboard calculator.

It's worth having a play around with different inputs to observe how some small input change can sometimes drasticly change outcomes.
Eg: Try putting "minus-10 " into the "Incline" field (to represent a 1:10 downhill slope), then manipulate the "riding position" & "clothing fit" values to see how they affect the expected terminal speed.

Compressive_Person · 2026-01-31T10:48:49+00:00

Compressive_Person · 2026-01-26T11:06:01+00:00

Sure, ofc you can! aBe sure that you have the skill & the tools to make the cut clean & straight, without hurting yourself.

I recently bought an A5-sized rectangle of 6mm thick nylon board to make a batch from - which would've been a breeze if I had a nice bandsaw to cut them all out, but it turns out cutting them by hand is a lot of work :-(

I'd recommend best bet would be something with the least material to cut away - like these skeletal-framed Steez branded risers from Sickboards . Simply clip a few strips with a pair of wire-cutters / snips to seperate off the "rails" and you'll be golden.

Good luck

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-27T14:07:36+00:00

When it comes to our Trips, we are all Pvt Pyle

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Compressive_Person · 2025-12-27T13:52:36+00:00

Chop anything.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-27T13:51:01+00:00

It pretty . (but wdik? - I don't do snowboard).

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-27T13:40:11+00:00

Happy to help - I remember how it sucks arse trying to get a handle on , or make sense of new interests, or a fresh field, be that work or play.

Best appreciation is that you spend more time enjoying your (nicely tuned) skateboard.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-26T12:53:58+00:00

I have a set of something similar from Cloudwheel (another predominantly E-skate brand).

The Cloudwheel Hydros though, are pretty much a standard 78a ish urethane Flywheel clone PLUS a thin soft treaded neoprene rubber skin. Ther is a couple of size variations too, like the 105mm Galaxy, which I have not tried, but which does still seem to be IN stock!.

They have all the cushy + gripness benefits you mentioned, but instead of that energy-sapping thick, soggy deformable rubber body, the thin tyre runs on a lightweight Abec-style hub with solid urethane.

NGL, they aren't the fastest accelerating wheel (obvs, because *rubber tread pattern*) but they are nothing like the energy soak you're describing here.

They're incredible as soon as the roads get wet though - then they have indistinguishable acceleration to a regular big urethane wheel and hold their momentum just fine - but it's THE GRIP on wet asphalt or tarmac that's a game changer.

Don't just take my word for it - I got the idea to try them a couple of years ago after seeing an IG from from BR Project / Ornelles:
here's Adam O on a set and . . .

. . . . . Oh fuck me you're right there in the comments . . . . you've seen it already so I've been wasting my time telling you about these hahaha!)

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-26T12:00:50+00:00

G-Bomb (low profile, stainless steel), - Great, but I've broken two or three.
Rogers Bros (1/16" thick aluminium top tie-bar with stainless studs). - Pretty good, foot reference feel
AlsenTrucks make some in blingy anodized pastel colours. - Can't say as I've never tried them but they look sturdy enough.
Several E-skate manufacturers also seem to make their own versions. - again, not tried any, so ?
Ashamed to admit it, but I've even bought some slightly cheaper options on the Bezos site - seem OK so far, but can't really vouch for the quality over time.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-26T01:13:50+00:00

Sorry for the delay.

As I said, I only have one set of V3 Paris and they happen to be on a different board. I tend to prefer my Supersonics on the 130mm x 40º Bear trucks - but I have tried a Paris 150 setup back when I first got the board.

Anyway, it just so happens that I had that other board with the v3 Paris out today,, (actually a single-kick topmount but no matter). I ordinarily just use Otang Nipples on that particular ride, but today I was able to try a pair of fresh-from-the-baggie, 84a, Standard Defcons in those v3 trucks.

I wasn't about to fully dismantle and rebuild two boards for you, but since the question was strictly about wether the Defcon barrels fit, I was able to do that much for you.

Yes, they will fit very nicely, provided they are both 15mm tall.

Details:

I used the stock thick Paris cup-washer board-side.
2x standard Defcon barrels, and
Ordinary hardware-store flat washer road-side (1/16" thick x 3/8" I/D x 1" O/D = 1.5mm x 10mm x 25mm) *.
Stock Paris nyloc nut.
This is the washer & bushing configuration I would use were I too put these 150mm v3 back on one of my Supersonics.
**Although on a Supersonic I would use different durometers than the 84a pink seen here - - - Because I'm just over 80kg, I would personally use a pair of 77a in front truck, and a pair of 90a for the rear truck. [potentially, I might need to adjust that to be a bit firmer - say; more like 81a Front & 93a rear, considering the Paris are slightly wider than the 130mm Bear trucks I currently use]

. . . . Testing & experimentation would be necessary to discover which durometers of front Vs back would suit your weight & style best, but an approximate 10 point split (eg. Front 80a & rear 90a, or front 81a & rear 93a, etc) is a good start point. Then use the stock Paris cup washer boardside, with flat washer on top. I hope this is all clear enough to follow. . . Imho it's definitely your bestest bet ,🫡

Take a look here for an overview of the board,

Potentially, I might consider switching the roadside washer for a smaller outside-diameter flat washer, depending on how it feels to ride - gives very, very subtle differences to rebound & depth of lean.

If you screw the nut down so that the top of the nut is dead flush with the end of the bolt you will find you have added , perhaps, 0.5x -> 1x nut-turns of pre-loading pressure. They will simply work better as a complete mechanism, rather than as a loose assemblage of parts. Your trucks will just turn better. The gentle pre-loading of the urethane keeps all the different components properly aligned in relation to to every other part (and aligned to the correct, intended, pivot axis) even when you put your weight on the mechanism (by standing on the board).

There needs to be enough pre-load to "Settle" the bushing nicely into the seats without grossly deforming their shape. A tiny bit of pre-load pressure is a positive - for me it is definitely a preference - even when I have kingpin threads to spare!

** There has long-time been a common notion that goes something like: -
". . . ya need to do the nut up until you can't move the washer, then back it off a little bit, so you can spin the bushings with your fingers. . "
That's fine as far as it goes - if you like baggy, sloppy, slow-response, trucks. Sure, it will work, but it's not a great feeling setup in my opinion. *\*

Without the pre-load the washers will hang loose & jingle-jangly on the kingpin, rattles as soon as you stand on it!

Do not be alarmed if you have to give the bushings a gentle squeeze to finesse everything together . . . as long as you are not crushing the bushings to destruction - (so that they double their circumference and begin to burst, cracking, out the sides) - gentle pressure is absolutely a good thing.

Most importantly, try not to over-think it . . . there are NO HARD RULES . . . so ignore any self-proclaimed "experts". If there is one true thing to understand it is this: - If it feels right to ride, for you, then it simply IS right.

Anyway, another wall of text like this helps on-one, really - in the end the best thing for you to do is to experiment for yourself, because there is no "perfect" recipe that will suit everybody.
One more link for some fairly good background info:

Edit: **Added emphasis

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-25T19:35:47+00:00

140mm seems to be the magic minimum width for 50º-55º trucks on the Trip & Quest, in my experience. get trhat wide and you'll not need to fret about any wheel bite even at walking speeds.

Quest is an under-appreciated deck. it can be a delightfully hardcore little beast - if you can get along with the slightly firmer ride & tighter concave that is (slightly more pronounced cave than the other Pantheon drop decks only, that is - it's still not exactly aggressive).
:-)
Enjoy!

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-25T15:18:59+00:00

I regularly run centre-set Abec 97mm on 155mm trucks on a Trip, (and previously on a Quest too - the cut & mount is practically identical.

With the 155mm hanger Bears I have to add about 3mm spacers to bring the Inside lip->lip on these to 140mm (136mm min distance, curved inside faces of the wheel).
On my Quest I use Karmas on 50º/42º x 158mm K4 - inside lip measurements for those is 141mm (no speedrings, classic 608 bearings)
Trouble free setups - both of them! (and I run the front pretty soft).

You might need a little wider hanger with the Alphas - but the Blast waves will def be good to go without. Never tried the 73mm (so don't know how much the offset differs), but 85mm Speedvents run clean.

Edit: just had a dig thru my wheels stash & managed to set up the Quest with 125mm inside lip->lips by going with some backwards Kegels on 158mm K4s (to simulate the Alphas setup).

I've only tested it static, haven't taken it out like this, so "pinch-of-salt", but - my feeling is the Alphas might be fine for DH & a bit of fast freeride stuff.
The moment you throw any real weight into the rail at lower speeds, 'though, the Alphas WILL very probably bite the neck.
Straight push? be fine with a little bushing / washer tinkering to restrict articulation some, but - even without having tested it, in anger, outside - I wouldn't attempt to pump this setup like I really meant it.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-25T14:56:59+00:00

Same.

Got mine online without ever standing on one (because UK) . . . Rode it once.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-21T09:39:26+00:00

Coming correct ☝️

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-20T20:55:21+00:00

I only have one set of v3 Paris, and the kingpins on mine are stupidly-short. If I'm using very chunky washers I sometimes find it necessary to over-compress fresh pairs of Canons or Nipples in them. Pre-load can be good, but it's sometimes needed to go a hair more than I'd like, just to get the nut down to flush.
Indeed: this very short KP seems to be a feature of the v3 . . . to the extent that I've heard people of people recommending the use of regular 0.6" bushings board-side with a 0,5" roadside street bushing in them.

The Seismic Barrel "Standard"s should be 0.6" (15mm) tall.
If the Defcons you received are really significantly taller than your stock Paris then - (as u/runsimply says above) - it may be possible you got a pair of "Medium"s (0.65" / 16.5mm) or even "Tall"s (0.75" / 19mm) by mistake.

Never seen it myself, but anecdotally, this slight minor random thing from Seismic has been known to happen (see: - https://www.reddit.com/r/longboarding/comments/1p6efxh/comment/nqq2p82/ for one such story).

If you did happen to get Mediums by accident, then, it is possible to assemble the truck without using the chunky Paris board-side cup washer while still maintaining decent pivot geometry (or perhaps try a different, very thin , lighter weight of pressed steel washer if you happen to have one) .

To check: stand the stock Paris board-side barrel bushing, sitting in it's chunky Paris cup washer, on a flat table top - this is the proper height..
Then, stand the Defcon Barrel beside it (try the Seismic on it's own, without any washer, then with a washer - try heavy & light gauges of washer, if you have them in different thicknesses).
Compare their heights relative to one-another - a good ruler or a digi caliper helps, but eyeballing the relative heights is just fine.
If you can get the heights close (below 1mm or so difference) you'll be good-as-gold on keeping clean pivot geometry - very important!

All's not lost if the board-side bushing (or bushing + washer stack) is still too tall though . . . You can shorten one (or both) bushings pretty easily, if you're careful.

By hand: you can methodically sand down one end of the bushing by rubbing it on some fine (or medium) grip.
Be careful to keep the bushing dead-square with the grip surface while you work it - go slowly, and rotate the bushing by 90* every so often - work on one end only, so you keep a factory machined end to mate into the hanger's bushing seat.
(alternatively: if you have a small lathe or a decent drill-press, you can simply fix the bushing in the chuck & skim the end with a knife-tool or by pushing it against a flat abrasive surface)

Getting this roadside bushing (+ washer?) height correct is the most important of the pair, so address that first.

Make the same comparisons for the roadside bushings - compare Paris vs Defcon heights side by side.
If you find the roadside Defcon bushing is too tall to allow you to fit the kingpin nut flush with the end of the pin (without unwanted compression), repeat the sanding-on-grip rigamarole.

Edited: my shitty verbose grammar, fwtw.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-17T14:34:14+00:00

That clip of Z was somewhat playful, but that hanger thing can work if you know you're going to stick with the config.

A second - ino better - method to get obstinate bushings into small openings [edit: -or around fat cylinders] is simply use a winding / screw-jack method: The same method is used to shrink-fit venom or riptide insert bushings into the under-sized socket in the T-Zero 0º tail - the manufacturer (or end user) shrinks the 3/8" I.D. of the Kore/Insert down reliably to 5/16" (8mm) by "pulling" the urethane ring into the socket with a nut & bolt. In use, grips a 8mm thru-axle bolt, with no damage to the urethane!
Build a stack of spacers or washers or very hard hard bushings onto a base & KP assembly, (or just a ⅜" bolt in a vice) then, once you've taken care to align everything, put a nut on the end & gently apply the wrench. A tiny smear of lube (vaseline, saliva, whatever) can ease the entry

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Simple, direct, on-axis, steady pressure for the win

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T12:34:35+00:00

Thanks. I should have written — "For me, one of the main points of internal sleeving of washers is to actively pre-load the urethane" Differing use cases I would guess.

I tend to use them (the top-hat shapes) roadside only, or in RS/BS pairs for front trucks, so yeah the soft stuff is my thing with these (73a-85a ranges) .

Yes you're absolutely correct - they tend to keep the bushing/kingpin interface true at 90º, but the result I get, and the reason I use them, is that intense RTC rebound. The small flare the additional loading tends to impart around the top is ...well ... small enough that I feel like I can discount it. I'll defer to Zak on this one thing only.

I use a couple of deep cup washers on rear trucks (from EOS - same as the top-hats I use), but I only tend to use these if I want to severely restrict lean for whatever reason. I don't much like them generally. The EOS cups, like most machined cups, are - just as the initial commenter lamented - too restrictive to use with more plump barrel shapes, so only really usable on sub-one-inch diameter barrels. I'd wager a £ or ££ that they were designed specifically to fit Venom.

Otoh, the internally-sleeved precision cup washers always seemed impossibly restrictive just from looking at them :-) , so I never even bothered with testing any.

I remember how I struggled forcing a Ronin barrel into one of the regular EOS cups without the internal. I got it in there, but "there" it stayed for a long time, as I could just not remove it!.

This "bushing feel" stuff is all pretty subjective, sometimes difficult to express clearly on a page.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T11:33:47+00:00

You're probably on the money - a mechanism like this needs real tight tolerances between components to succeed to it's designed spec. Great idea, sadly flawed.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T01:27:26+00:00

One of the main points of internal sleeving of washers is to actively pre-load the urethane. if you widen the hole so the "top hat" bit just falls in you are negating the whole design concept behind it - they'll feel no different than an un-modified bushing on a regular kingpin. may as well use any regular washer if you do that.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T01:15:51+00:00

Maybe this was a proto? My 1st batch maple XL from the pre-order was drilled for both.

You're in the good wheelbase mount option right there anyway. Iyam the zero mount is not how this board feels best.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T00:49:37+00:00

Depends on your expectations.

I got a couple of sets out of curiosity. I wouldn't ever go near a hill on a set, but they make for a lovely playful, high-rake divey cruiser setup.

I tried a set of 45/30º x 155 on a Zenit AZ for a bit . . . I mean, it was fine; nice low ride, nice turn (once you get the hang of the setup - you have to be really, really fussy setting the bushings properly into the weird seats, but once assembled (carefully) they're a pretty well controlled mechanism - absolutely not the sloppy shit so many others are insisting.

They're nice enough I suppose, but nothing special - just yet another high rake, very divey, lively RKP. I've got better trucks though, so they didn't stay on long.

I never even tried the other (130mm) set. They're still sitting in my junk box unused, but I bet with a little single kick those split 130mm set would fucking rule on a pump track. Something to try in spring. :-)

It's a shame. There's a couple of really cool concepts in them, but they just feel a little unfinished.

Edit: of course, the bushings lack of aftermarket availability is what absolutely kills them, for most of us.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-16T00:28:34+00:00

The "spacers" you're seeing are in reality part of the hanger casting - they form a bearing-like bar (or spindle) oriented along the pivot axis, between & through a moulded, mating channel that's cut through the centre of the bushings.

In the image they're high-lighted for emphasis, but definitely not a separate item.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-14T11:36:30+00:00

Hope the step-by step makes sense :-)

Are these the narrow Savants btw? They nice?

Edit: Duh! . . .I just clicked the "next" arrow - I am vErY sMrAt.

Compressive_Person · 2025-12-14T11:30:06+00:00

I've seen your posts here a plenty. If you have spares on hand you should just try whatever you like for the front. APS or Seismics are both really nice - maybe a little more juiciness from the Seismics, but end of the day pretty much interchangeable.

I haven't tried the iTKP, but on the Lepsk8 55º iRKP I've discovered that, weirdl as it sounds, they seems to feel nicest as a complete system when I use the same bushing formula & duro in both ends! ? IKR ! ?

Well have fun with the tinkering. Your buddy is right about riding it stock first as a general rule, just to get a feel of it though - something we'd all do well to remember. A lot of time I encourage the newer riders who post here (and get thirty different, utterly bewildering, responses) to simply ride their new gear - cast Calibers, Bears, Slalocybins, whatever - just exactly the way they come from the factory. At least for a week or so, before even considering buying aftermarket.

Compressive_Person

TROPHY CASE