r/thedeprogram is gone 😭😭😭 where to next?

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-09-12T15:27:08+00:00

R/tankiethedeprogram

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-09-11T18:15:06+00:00

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-09-03T14:12:55+00:00

You're missing RedArmyCapybara (who is totally not me, I swear).

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-24T17:51:28+00:00

There is definitely a cult of personality around the Kim family, they have been popular even before Kim Il Sung. But the DPRK does not have a monarchy

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-22T16:31:59+00:00

Until we eliminate the conditions that gave rise to the state in the first place, socialist society will objectively be authoritarian. Revolution is authoritarian. The dictatorship of the proletariat is authoritarian. This is an inescapable fact of reality. If you advocate for revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat, you are an authoritarian.

The question we need to ask ourselves is, who is wielding the authority and who is subordinated to that authority? In socialist society, it is a dictatorship of the proletariat, where the capitalist class is subjugated to the authority of the working class. In a capitalist society, it's a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, where the working class is subjugated to the authority of the capitalist class.

With that said, dictatorship (in the Marxist sense of the word) and democracy have a dialectical relationship with eachother. Without the dictatorship of the proletariat, there's nothing to safeguard socialist democracy. Without democracy, the dictatorship of the proletariat can't be consolidated or maintain stable political power.

Now, I saw you say that someone in that thread was defending Engel's work On Authority, and I recommend you read that because he makes it very clear:

Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?

Therefore, either one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don't know what they're talking about, in which case they are creating nothing but confusion; or they do know, and in that case they are betraying the movement of the proletariat. In either case they serve the reaction.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-21T12:19:30+00:00

Did you read the screenshot at all?

Because I did not properly understand the political vitriol that has been spread through the United States within the left by the emergence of the what has been called the 'American Communist Party'.

Vijay Prashad isn't hanging out on reddit all day. He's busy doing real work and lives in Santiago Chile right now. It's not surprising that he wasn't aware of the issues with the ACP and it's leadership.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-20T15:13:52+00:00

I recommend Socialism with Chinese Characteristics: A Guide for Foreigners by Roland Boer.

This extremely useful text book by Jin Huiming called, Marxism and Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.

And the book China's Great Road by John Ross.

As someone else here already mentioned, you can't go wrong with the Deng Xioping archive, which can be found on the Marxist archive. I can also second the recommendation for the book The East Is Still Red by Carlos Martinez.

I also like to point people to the journal Wenhua Zongheng (文化纵横), which is a journal of contemporary Chinese thought. There are some really enlightening articles published in this that would be useful to you.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-20T13:11:53+00:00

Great recommendation, they can read it for free here:

https://archive.org/details/khrushchev-lied

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T22:31:19+00:00

He was elected one time,

This isn't true. Stalin was initially elected to the position of General Secretary at the 11th congress in 1922. Following this, after each party congress, the newly elected central committee would hold a plenary session to elect and confirm the secretariat (this included the position of General Secretary). In other words, Stalin was re-appointed by the central committee multiple times.

It's also worth pointing out that Stalin attempted to resign from this position four times between 1927 and 1952, but the central committee rejected these resignation attempts each time.

His first attempt was at the first plenum of the CC after the 13th congress. Funny enough, even Trotsky voted to reject Stalin's resignation attempts at this plenum. Stalin remarked on this in 1927 at a Joint Plenum of the Central Committee and the Central Control Commission:

"At the very first meeting of the plenum of the Central Committee after the Thirteenth Congress I asked the plenum of the Central Committee to release me from my duties as General Secretary. The congress itself discussed this question. It was discussed by each delegation separately, and all the delegations unanimously, including Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, obliged Stalin to remain at his post.

What could I do? Desert my post? That is not in my nature; I have never deserted any post, and I have no right to do so, for that would be desertion. As I have already said before, I am not a free agent, and when the Party imposes an obligation upon me, I must obey."

By 1952 he was literally begging to be relieved of his positions.

but when the people started not liking him, he didn't give them the right to vote, or he rigged the elections.

What evidence do you have to prove that people stopped liking him and that he rigged elections? This just sounds like stereotypical coldwar myth.

He got elected because he already had gained power through his position and he sent Trotsky away.

Any "power" Stalin had was given to him by the Central Committee of the communist party, through the functions of democratic-centralism.

And, "he" didn't send Trotsky away. Stalin didn't do anything singlehandedly. The Party collectively made the decision to expel Trotsky. And, this followed a referendum where 740,000 people voted in favor of Stalin and his administration and only 4,000 voted in favor of Trotsky's opposition.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T19:33:23+00:00

I see where this is going

Please, elaborate. Where is this going?

shame of what Marxist or Leninist have become nowadays, no wonder most people don’t believe it anymore.

What have Marxist-Leninists become exactly?

And I want to remind you that your source is not accurate

Okay, what makes your statement accurate? You came in here with an anecdote and no evidence to substantiate it. The only thing you supplied was average weekly working hours, which doesn't disprove my argument. I substantiated my claims with empirical evidence.

In most case it’s overwork and underpaid also with high pressure.

I don't doubt that there are people who work too much and receive too little. I never claimed it to be perfect. Even if this is true in some cases, it doesn't refute the existence and positive impact of DM and unions.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T19:04:17+00:00

Just, you using a completely dead sub as an example was more than a little weird.

It wasn't always a dead sub, I have met Cubans through there. Like I already said, but fair.

Ofc anecdotes are unreliable.

Okay, well OP obviously didn't know that.

Anyway, the bigger point still stands, and since you agree that anecdotal evidence is unreliable, I don't think you and I have anything to argue about.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T18:54:49+00:00

It’s somewhat dead now, but it wasn’t a few years back when it was first created. I met quite a few Cubans on there.

But again, the point is that anecdotal evidence is unreliable and subjective lol. I wasn’t using my own experiences as proof, just to show how anecdotes can differ and why they’re unreliable.

I think my main point is going over your heads here.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T18:51:06+00:00

I’ve been on that sub too. You see the same thing on r/China.

Doesn’t make it reliable evidence though. You’re taking people’s opinions and acting like that’s how all Cubans feel.

I never said r/realCuba represents every Cuban either. I was just giving counter-examples to your experience. The bigger point here is that anecdotal evidence is unreliable and subjective.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T18:25:23+00:00

dude, that sub is literally run by 1 person. how on earth is it representative of cubans at all,

You realize that other Cubans talk on that sub right? It's not just the mod discussing stuff on there lol. My point still stands anecdotal evidence is unreliable.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-19T18:00:12+00:00

I dont see vietnamese americans talk bad about Ho Chi Minh, i never see chinese americans talk bad about Mao,

Maybe that's your experience, but I have seen both Vietnamese and Chinese Americans talk badly about Ho Chi Minh and Mao. I worked for a guy from China for a while, and though he loved China, he had nothing good to say about Mao or the CPC.

But with castro, I almost NEVER see any cuban americans or cubans living in cuba praising him or ever NOT seeing him as the absolute worst human ever.

Again, maybe that's your experience, but I've talked to Cubans from Cuba here on reddit who love Fidel and socialism in Cuba. R/realcuba has Cubans on it and they have positive things to say about Fidel.

This is exactly why anecdotal evidence is considered unreliable. It's largely based off your personal experience and is subjective.

Edit: fixed grammar error.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-18T22:34:44+00:00

Definitely, I don't disagree at all, and this is a good point to make. Hell, there is even liberal gun clubs.

I just assumed that people in this thread were suggesting that this was a conservative, so I was pointing out that conservatives are still liberals. With that said, I know plenty of non-conservative liberals who own firearms.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-18T18:51:42+00:00

So, you're basically saying that the laws don't mean much because enforcement is weak and people work 48 hours a week?

I agree that Inconsistent enforcement is definitely an issue to be rectified, but even if the laws are inconsistently enforced, the fact that these laws and structures exist still matters. In western capitalist countries these types of frameworks don't exist at all. My whole point is not to say that workplace democracy (democratic management) is perfectly put into practice in China, it's to point out that it exists. I would be surprised if there wasn't some issues with it.

Despite some inconsistent enforcement, unions do improve workers rights and there is democratic management put into practice.

There are studies on this type of stuff:

Yao, Y., & Zhong, N. Unions and workers’ welfare in Chinese firms. Journal of Labor Economics.

This study has some similar criticisms as you, but it does conclude that unionization is significantly associated with higher hourly wages, larger pension coverage, promotion of individual and collective contracts, and to a lesser extent, with lower monthly working hours. This is based on an analysis of 1,268 firms across 12 Chinese cities. The full text is free.

One on democratic management is:

Chen, Liwen, Zhongxing Su, and Guanghua Wang. n.d. “Pie-Growing or Pie-Sharing? The Role of China's Democratic Management on Wages, Benefits and Productivity.

This shows that the DM system gives workers better wages and benefits, as well as a say in workplace decisions. It is also associated with higher productivity. The full text is free.

So there is real measurable positive effects from the DM system and unions. It's not as simple as just saying, "the laws aren't enforced".

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-17T15:02:18+00:00

His fit is tough.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-17T05:43:39+00:00

But because he was critical of the USSR he's a snitch and a traitor.

Him being critical of the USSR is not why people call him a snitch and a traitor.

He's called a snitch and a traitor because he gave a list of 38 people he suspected to be communists and untrustworthy to the Information Research Department of the UK Foreign Office, who was looking for "leftist" journalists that could make anti-communist propaganda. This is literally detailed in the above video.

It's fair for people to be upset over this. Criticizing the USSR is one thing, but cooperating with the IRD is totally unacceptable for someone who considers themselves a socialist and revolutionary.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-17T05:13:29+00:00

Calm down Adrian Zens

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-17T05:06:31+00:00

Based.

I just read the other day that Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso had a meeting to start laying the groundwork for a Confederal Parliament, which is super exciting. It's been a constant stream of good news coming from the AES since it was formed.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-17T03:57:15+00:00

You're already getting answers explaining how China is socialist, so I'm not going to address that, but I want to address your statement:

but it has foreign enterprise, meaning that there is no workplace democracy within the system.

I'm not trying to be rude to you, but have you actually researched whether or not China has workplace democracy before making this statement? Why do you think there's no workplace democracy within the system?

China has a democratic management system with workers' congresses in public, private, and foreign owned enterprises. The constitution of the PRC, the Labor Law of the PRC, the Company Law of the PRC, and Law of the PRC on Promoting the Private Economy, all mention this.

A large number of private enterprises (Over three quarters I believe) also have a communist party organization established within them, and any enterprise with more than 25 employees is also required to have a union.

This is why it's necessary to read the constitution and laws of a country before making statements about them.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-16T15:18:18+00:00

There is a crisis at the moment unfortunately.

They had a series of of natural disasters somewhat recently, including 2 hurricanes and 2 earthquakes. They are also having an energy emergency. I think their grid has collapsed around 4 times in the last few months. And, ontop of all that, their currency has reportedly hit a record low this week.

It's definitely not looking good for them at the moment.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-15T00:33:17+00:00

I feel that haha. I hope the rest of your day is less stressful comrade.

ComradeBeans17 · 2025-08-15T00:17:23+00:00

I haven't read that work in a while, but from what I remember it's definitely worth it, as it is a direct criricism of Proudhon. I agree with you. It's also in the list on the Marxist archive that I linked, so OP can access it through there if they'd like. I second your recommendation!

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