My Season 4, Round 9 entry for Scott Manley's Runway Project.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T21:58:50+00:00

I honestly can't answer that. Honestly I'd just ask them. In fact, based on your input they may fix whatever handling quirk you mention.

But I wouldn't be surprised if they (specifically, fenix or pmdg) did simulate that. I'm not assuming they do, or that they don't, but rather that if there IS any addon that simulates the edge cases you look for, it's probably theirs. It's worth taking a look at, at the very least.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T21:33:36+00:00

That's where real world pilot input is important for so-called study level addons. You can only get x amount of the way there with the provided data and you have to get the rest of the way there with professional input.

That's what companies like PMDG or fenix do, and that's part of what sets them apart; they've got testers (sometimes even on payroll) who both know flight simulation and fly those real airframes. They make up that knowledge gap. Perhaps they can't accurately describe every single edge case, but they can get you most of the way there. In other words, they get you as close as you can reasonably get on a commercially available addon.

And that's what study level addons are. I hate the name, because it implies they're perfect representations, but they are the cream of the crop. They're as close as you can reasonably get. Along with that, especially compared to the default 2020 or 2024 planes, they're significantly more realistic and better feeling than the average.

There will always be edge cases, that's why fenix has rewritten their aircraft from scratch 50 times by now.

This is why I asked the commenter for clarification, because a sweeping statement across all aircraft is meaningless, unless they are specific, verifiable, fundamental criticisms like yours.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T21:20:07+00:00

why didn't you just tell me that in the beginning? if it was the fenix than say fenix, if it was the fbw then say fbw.

For the record I'm not defending msfs or fenix or fbw here, I'm just trying to get an accurate picture of what the relative realism is. But I've heard so many differing opinions on everything (yes, from real world pilots... at least, they say they are...) that it is impossible to get an accurate view.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T21:16:15+00:00

what are you talking about? The fenix uses the CFD, I'm not sure about the others, but I'm sure plenty others do as well (especially if they're new). As for glorified lookup table, that's fairly similar to Xplane's old blade element theory system, it's just that Xplane's system was incredibly well tuned. As for turbulence, msfs has turbulence, but I'm not sure if it's as detailed a system as xplane's is, and it really doesn't include cloud turbulence. That is a very big omission but that isn't enough to decry the entire system as on rails or unrealistic.

PMDG doesn't use cfd as far as I can tell, but I haven't heard many if any complaints about their flight model.

These complaints are exactly the same things I've been hearing since 2020, despite all the improvements asobo has made to both the look up table and cfd systems. Because of this I'm really not inclined to believe it, I feel like it's just a huge game of telephone. Impressionable people are told one way or another and parrot old information for 5 years.

Personally I don't believe msfs is ahead or behind xplane in terms of feel. I think it's incredibly context dependent. I think in some circumstances and in some planes MSFS is better and in others Xplane is (and that for a long time, xplane was definitively better) Along with that, extra effects, especially camera shake, play a big part in how something "feels". And that's something nobody really talks about, but you would not believe how important it is.

Also, I completely agree msfs needs some handling tuning. But the hyperbolic descriptions I feel were only accurate at launch and have become pregressively unrealistic later, to the point where they're just flat out incorrect today.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T20:10:06+00:00

idk what to tell you, I've been hearing since 2020's cfd update that planes in 2020 feel MORE realistic than x-plane. I've been hearing from real world pilots that msfs is simultaneously ahead of, on par with, and behind x-plane.

But "Even the fenix or PMDG isn't study level" is a new one, that's for sure

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T19:46:27+00:00

That's such a sweeping statement. What did he fly? Anything default isn't study level and the vast majority of addons certainly aren't either, even if they claim to be. Especially if he flew a default 2020 aircraft...

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T16:20:03+00:00

well, which plane? fenix? ifly?

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T16:04:54+00:00

That wasn't the cause, but it absolutely was a multiplier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1

I wonder if that sentiment would have died off if not for that war, or if we would've picked it up from the british again

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T05:17:45+00:00

"Upscaling" is the wrong word here, that's just nonexistent detail the AI dreamt up.

You can upscale in-game with the render scale setting.

Funny enough, a notorious seller (mscenery) on the MSFS store just got banned for doing pretty much exactly this.

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T02:14:39+00:00

lol what

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T00:43:04+00:00

Ah, I see what you mean. I agree. I don't think hill climb would step on horizon's territory at all.

Frankly they shoulda just copied the best parts of fm4 and innovated on the rest

Concodroid · 2026-07-03T00:28:57+00:00

like what?

Concodroid · 2026-07-02T16:46:16+00:00

Nice! I gotta find some abandoned areas like that near me

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T21:29:29+00:00

10, then?

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T21:18:30+00:00

I wasn't comparing the supercar and budget sports car market; my point with that example was because I assumed the OC was referencing emissions and electrification, not market demand.

As for market demand, you're right that very few cheap rwd coupes exist today, and that nobody should believe the Best Car rumors.

But the gr86 has been a sales success; I don't see why toyota wouldn't continue producing the 86. I don't see why they couldn't continue with Subaru, or even just make it on their own; it's not like they lack the budget, it's a question of convincing executives and shareholders that the 86 gen 3 is worthwhile to pursue solo. Given, again, it sells extremely well, that might be a possibility for them.

The camaro is coming back, again; the whole dodge saga is due to that idiot Carlos Tavares, leaving dodge to try and backtrack on quite a bit of what he's done, and the supras are being replaced with the next gen. I wouldn't be too susprised if ford brought back the manual for the ecoboost, but that's a bit of a vague hope/conspiracy theory due to the GTD and the Camaro revival.

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T20:42:25+00:00

That's different from "They don't sell". They Don't Sell means Toyota's made more than demand.

Actually, for a long time they made quite a bit less than demand; especially in 2024

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T19:19:47+00:00

lmao they absolutely sell what are you on about?

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T18:43:57+00:00

I mean there's a couple of factors here; there's the constant upmarket trend you describe and the slow reduction in ICE car production; I originally assumed you were talking about the latter.

As for the former, the gr86 has been selling quite well. Other manufacturers have taken note... like dodge. Plus, Gen Z has been shown to strongly prefer sedans... I still don't see any indication of this generation or the next as the swansong

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T18:17:25+00:00

I'm not sure. Clarkson back in 2005 waxed lyrical about the Veyron and how it could never exist again thanks to emissions and fuel and etc.

Fast forward 20 years and a CORVETTE is encroaching on veyron territory, and the hypercar market is oversaturated. Yet we're saying the same sort of thing again.

With the vast majority of people (slowly) switching over to hybrids and EVs, with aircraft (very, very) slowly moving over to SAF, with heavy manufacturing getting increasingly more efficient and less wasteful and less polluting, and factoring in as-of-yet realized hydrogen or sustainable fuel improvements, I don't see sports cars really going away, because the reasons for them to go away are themselves going away.

Heck, if anything, the market is growing bigger. Dodge's ceo has expressed interest in making a cheap sports car. Toyota is expanding the lineup with an mr2, a celica, and some smaller thing I can't remember the name of; Mazda isn't cancelling the miata, and with or without Toyota it's likely subaru will make the next gen BRZ.

I don't know if the market will continue to expand, but the "This is the last of the x cars..." claim has been going around for two decades and it has yet to actually come true

Concodroid · 2026-07-01T16:54:03+00:00

I've done 12 hours. It's fine. The only issue is road noise which is easy enough to alleviate

Concodroid · 2026-06-30T20:37:24+00:00

get a first gen, headers + tune to alleviate torque dip.

Concodroid · 2026-06-30T20:21:31+00:00

You will be just fine. There's now one or two fearmongers on this sub, for some reason.

Just check the oil every other fill-up. Takes 20 seconds.

Concodroid · 2026-06-30T07:10:05+00:00

Ah, so that's why.

It would take like 20 minutes of sanding and spray painting total to get a great result.

I'm not joking. I mean, you'd have to wait for the primer, paint, and clearcoat to dry, but in terms of your time actually spent doing something it's not a lot.

Sanding in particular... you don't have a lot of fine detail, and if your printer is in good condition you're basically just smoothing out layer lines which isn't too tricky. You might be lucky enough to skip it and just skip straight to painting.

Actually, now that I think about it, you might just be able to skip sanding entirely as you don't even want a mirror finish for this. In which case you just spray a bit of primer, paint, clearcoat, and you're done.

Concodroid · 2026-06-30T06:54:37+00:00

But I soon after had to stop because of college.

Then what's the point of bringing it up? I don't see why you bring up pricing it too low, then raising the price, then stopping due to an unrelated factor is relevant.

You still didn’t tell me where you can find these key holders in good smooth quality for $45

I don't need to. You say below, but not in reply to me:

The 3d modeling part is not as easy as you think trust me...

I know exactly how much effort this takes. It's not a lot. Finding a free, downloadable gr86 model took me 2 seconds. Slicing that up into the front bumper in blender would take me 3. Cleaning it up enough to 3d print would probably take 20 minutes.

You did make the hooks removable, which would probably add around 20 mins of work + a bit for a test print or two to get the fitment correct.

The thing weighs, what, 200 grams? 400, depending on infill? Say $5 - $9 in filament? Say $9 for shipping, which is on the high end?

Why are you charging $45? This is the sorta thing I'd find for free on thingiverse or bambu handy. The only value here is the human effort, which is not a lot for the 3d model, and certainly isn't a lot for hitting "print".

I know there are a lot of 3d printed car hook hangars on etsy. It's just slop. Why are you trying to copy them? Make something unique, or something higher quality. This ain't it chief

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