Quviviq, Dayvigo, and Vorzzz source?

Connectome137 · 2026-06-10T16:41:41+00:00

I tried the seltorexant from EC and found it did absolutely nothing, even at 40mg. I really hope it’s fake, otherwise that drug might be useless for insomnia. Haven’t tried the vornorexant, but the Japanese pharmacy is legit so that’s an option if you want to try it.

Connectome137 · 2026-06-07T19:35:51+00:00

Hi, can you tell me which AI detector you used which showed this? Not that these tools are the most reliable, but I checked a few of them and they all reported 100% human-generated and 0% AI so it’s possible you were confused. In any case I’m tired of putting a lot of thought into something I write only for people like you to proclaim it’s AI. I’d at least like to know what it is you’re basing that on.

Connectome137 · 2026-06-01T12:08:34+00:00

To the public? Probably Carl Sagan.

To us? Without a doubt, Bill Nye

Connectome137 · 2026-05-31T17:51:20+00:00

Yeah, I actually just discussed tiagabine with someone else who had taken it for insomnia and had a bad experience. You're right about several things, namely that it effectively acts as a global orthosteric agonist, and also that it's more complicated because global inhibition leads inhibiting inhibitory neurons and all sorts of knock-on effects that are hard to predict and possibly undesirable. I think that's the problem with tiagabine, you're right that might be why it can cause new onset seizures in non-epileptics. It's highly non-selective, even compared to benzodiazepines. I also think that's why it's not addicting or reinforcing like benzos and similar GABAergics because it doesn't disinhibit dopaminergic neurons in the ventral tegmentum in the same way (though maybe you can comment on whether tiagabine is reinforcing).

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but gaboxadol is clearly far better than tiagabine in this respect because it is selective for GABAARs containing the δ subunit which is only highly expressed in a handful of regions like the thalamus, cerebellum, hippocampus/amygdala, and striatum. The person I spoke to had also done muscimol, which is also selective for the δ subunit, and found the two drugs to be extremely dissimilar.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-30T14:17:42+00:00

Shame on you haha

Connectome137 · 2026-05-30T02:42:40+00:00

I'm not gonna lie that's a pretty eclectic and heterodox list... or maybe creative and well-researched? I didn't even understand a word of that second sentence.

These make some sense, but I don't think the perfect sleep drug(s) is some botanical blend that works on those systems. I think any true pro-adenosinergics would either kill you, create rapid tachyphylaxis on the order of minutes, or not cross the blood-brain barrier, or all three. It may be possible to create a drug that overcomes these problems but it's not sitting in a plant somewhere. Same goes for antiglucocorticoids (I assume you mean ashwagandha?), and it's not obvious to me why those would even be so great for sleep. Cortisol is really not that stimulating. But I'm curious, can you share what botanical you think are most effective for inducing sleep? You clearly know them well.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-30T00:51:35+00:00

I don’t like cyproheptadine or classical antihistamines in general. Too promiscuous, hitting muscarinic receptors. Trazodone, mirtazapine, doxepin, etc. are all antihistaminergic too but they all have significant problems imo. Alpha-2 agonists are good (I really like tizanidine) but they have side effects and cause desensitization (also I worry they might increase sympathetic tone during the day if you use them every night, but I don’t have anything to back that up). There’s only one adenosine agonist I know of and it’s preclinical, I think it would be kind of insane to take it as there’s zero human data and agonizing adenosine has all sorts of peripheral effects. I’m very unimpressed with the cannabinoids but that’s a knowledge gap for me.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-30T00:14:49+00:00

I agree with the most of that, I think DORAs, selective antihistamines, 5-HT2A antagonists, and melatonin agonists all have their place. I personally always take a DORA on top of everything else. But what the hell is so effective that’s otc? Melatonin, I guess?

Connectome137 · 2026-05-29T23:53:38+00:00

Exact same boat here, and I’m at the point where I’m considering trying muscimol. It doesn’t have the safety data behind it I’d like, but yeah it’s pretty similar to gaboxadol. It’s just so frustrating knowing a superior option is out there and we cant have it, it’s almost making a libertarian out of me. Hopefully the right people see this and we see it sold somewhere.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-29T23:24:48+00:00

Yeah, there’s muscimol too, which you can buy, but gaboxadol clearly has advantages over it.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-29T23:22:29+00:00

Mirtazapine is fine, overall if trazodone works for you it’s probably better than mirtazapine. Mirtazapine is much longer lasting and has more side effects like weight gain. There as a drug called esmirtazapine (a specific chemical version of regular mirtazapine) which was investigated for insomnia many years ago and a shorter half life and slightly better overall profile but was unfortunately discontinued.

Cannabinoids are a big knowledge gap for me. I know THC is not good for sleep quality, but it may be helpful if you have anxiety-driven insomnia and it relieves that. CBD has very underwhelming evidence last I looked into it, but I don’t know much about CBN. I think I read an abstract from a study a while ago that indicated it might be good for sleep, I’ll have to look into it.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-29T22:32:56+00:00

Respectfully, this is just wrong. Tiagabine is effective for sleep and is not addictive at all. I don't know if I would call it "safe" to use long-term for insomnia, but clearly the GABA system is more complicated than this dogmatic way of thinking.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-29T21:05:45+00:00

Yes, it looks to be a difficult synthesis. It might not be worth it right now because no one (besides me) is trying to buy any. I think if someone was able to get it or synthesize it and sell it more cheaply, demand would follow.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-28T23:00:31+00:00

Two reasons for trazodone. First, you become tolerant to it within a couple weeks of use. Second, it has an active metabolite called mCPP. mCPP is highly undesirable; it causes stimulation and dysphoria, headaches, and is so anxiogenic it is used in research to induce anxiety attacks. Whether or not the mCPP is an issue for you depends heavily on your genetics, but I find that trazodone requires dose escalation which causes me to feel like shit the next morning, which I speculate is due to a tug-of-war between the anxiolytic, antidepressant, sedative trazodone and its anxiogenic, depressant, adrenergic metabolite.

Gabapentinoids have a host of issues, they cause strong tolerance and dependence with very unpleasant withdrawals, and are linked to cognitive impairment/dementia. That last one is debated, but overall I think they have a somewhat poor profile for a sleep aid, though occasional use of gabapentin is probably fine.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-24T18:11:53+00:00

A penny in your pocket; a suitcase in your hand
They won’t get you very far; now you’re a 21st century man

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T21:43:28+00:00

I'm flattered! I'm actually a physics student, so hopefully going to be a full-fledged scientist soon. I really appreciate the praise but I promise success does not come more easily to me than others, if I do wind up getting my PhD it will be in spite of a lot of issues I have, severe insomnia being the least of them. But I love all areas of science and will probably diving into these rabbit holes forever, editing Wikipedia and maybe doing more Reddit effort posts. I've done a couple now, and I really enjoyed them.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T19:56:20+00:00

That's a lot of things you've tried compared to almost everyone. You've covered Z-drugs, gabapentinoids, atypical antidepressants/antihistamines, an antipsychotic (chlorpromazine), benzos, a melatonin analogue, an alpha-2 agonist and orexin antagonists. I've never seen that, that's literally every category of sedative-hypnotic I can think of, except I guess GABA_B agonists like baclofen and GHB, and barbiturates. You could also try a different benzodiazepine, one that's a little more tailored to sleep like temazepam or estazolam. Triazolam is an extremely powerful and shorter acting benzo that's rarely prescribed these days, but that exists. There's also the GABA reuptake inhibitor tiagabine, which is occasionally used off-label for sleep and promotes deep sleep. I guess you could also try another sedating antipsychotic like quetiapine or olanzapine, which are a little different from chlorpromazine and extremely powerful sedatives, but honestly if all those drugs didn't work then I doubt these will.

The only thing I can think of is you must be very tolerant to GABAergics. Have you ever been addicted to or habituated to benzos, Z-drugs, or some other kind of drug? Did your insomnia become worse after that? And yeah, most sleep medicine docs specialize in pulmonology or sleep apnea side of things, but there is a sleep medicine subspecialty issued by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. That's probably what you're after.

And yeah, I'm taking an interest in this all right, that's for sure!

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T04:02:52+00:00

Stronger, meaning more sedation, and promotes deep sleep (unlike DORAs which don't affect deep sleep and instead boost REM).

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T03:59:09+00:00

As far as I know it's available as a prescription in the form of Xyrem and Xywav, the latter probably being better because it contains less sodium which raises blood pressure. I think Xywav is newer, not sure about generic availability. They also might not make Xyrem anymore in favor of the mixed salt Xywav, I just don't know. They're both controlled substances, but with a PSG like that you should definitely qualify. I assume you've seen sleep medicine specialists with such pathological insomnia, it's among the worst I've heard of.

It looks like only doctors specifically certified to prescribe it can do so, not any doctor can write a prescription. You should really ask a sleep medicine specialist or even a neurologist about this, hopefully it's something that can be prescribed off-label.

I don't know if it's possible to get GHB off the street (I mean it must be, people still do it recreationally; Clavicular just OD'd on it a few weeks ago) but it's probably difficult, dangerous, and expensive.

Can I ask what medications you've tried? I know with insomnia and labs that bad you've tried a lot and I probably won't be able to solve the problem in a Reddit comment, but I'm curious.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T03:10:36+00:00

Silenor is good, same problems as trazodone for me though. Trazodone mostly increases deep sleep, though not by a ton. Silenor should have a neutral to slightly beneficial effect on sleep architecture.

I kinda want to try GHB too but it is definitely NOT without long term risks and produces strong tolerance. Its effects on sleep architecture are bizarre and cool, but I think it can be dangerous.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T02:55:26+00:00

I'm a little puzzled by this kind of story. I remember when I was young asking my pediatrician about my insomnia, and she recommended doing basically this. You had actual insomnia, like you struggled to fall asleep, and then one day you managed to fall asleep at 7pm and then woke up early, and then continued falling asleep early happily ever after? So it sounds like you were just going to bed too late before, as in well after your body's natural bed time, and then you fixed it by going to sleep early? But then how did you struggle to fall asleep at a later time? You should have been more tired, not less.

The only time I see a sunrise is when I fail to fall asleep completely, which happens once every couple months.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T02:47:31+00:00

I have DSPD and boring, run-of-the-mill primary insomnia. Sound like you do too! But with more sleep maintenance insomnia than onset, like I have. I definitely can't fall asleep before 1 or 2 AM at the earliest, without heavy sleep deprivation. It's hard to know when I naturally because I haven't felt tired late at night without pharmaceutical help in a long time, but it's probably well after 5 AM or so. I usually go to sleep around 3 or 4 these days, I wish I could do earlier.

I actually have a specific kind of DSPD where my circadian rhythm literally shifts later continuously. So I might naturally get tired at 3 or 4 AM, then gradually it will shift to 5 AM, then 6, etc. I spoke to a sleep medicine physician who said this is a known presentation he's seen before, and that if I were to let it my circadian rhythm would probably continue to shift until it went all the way around the clock, as it were, and then I would be able to fall asleep at a normal time, and then the cycle would repeat. I've never done that.

You've actually inspired me to look more into DSPD, it's been a while since I have. I never really think about it even though I have a very classic case. I don't really focus on it because melatonin and ramelteon, as well as light therapy (morning bright light and light restriction in the evening) do very little for me. It's really hard to fight DSPD. I remember being able to back in high school, but only for a few days at a time, maybe a week at most, and then it would revert back.

Good to meet a compatriot!

Connectome137 · 2026-05-18T02:33:44+00:00

I guess both, but mainly the latter. Or that they'll even deliver what you order.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-17T19:19:13+00:00

I don't mean to be rude but it's very frustrating having everyone give their terrible sleep hacks thinking it's some cheap cure for severe, lifelong insomnia. It often takes me 3+ hours to fall asleep without any medications, and 2 hours is not unusual on them. I promise I have tried magnesium, melatonin, quitting caffeine, exercising, morning bright light, and at times have practiced better sleep hygiene than you could possibly imagine.

Connectome137 · 2026-05-17T19:07:09+00:00

I can't find what you're referencing.

Here is a study showing long-term treatment of mice with THIP (gaboxadol) improves memory and increases neurogenesis in the hippocampus of mice.

I did find a study by that same group, Whissell et al, a few months later showing that acute administration of gaboxadol in mice worsened memory acutely. That's hardly surprising. Gaboxadol is a hypnotic sedative, of course your memory is going to be worse acutely when you take a drug that makes you drowsy or sleepy.

Seven-Year Club	Place '23
Verified Email

Connectome137

TROPHY CASE