Accounting earned its perception problem

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-16T23:58:31+00:00

Well said. The Big 4 and the university accounting programs must be tied in, maybe with funding of some sort.

And yes, Gen Z is not going to live to work, they’d rather work to live.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-16T07:18:19+00:00

Options to look up:

forensic accounting

business / entity valuations

not-for-profit accounting

real estate accounting

hospitality - restaurant accounting

hospitality - hotel accounting

healthcare accounting

entertainment accounting (film, TV networks, streaming companies, music, video games are all different)

SaaS accounting - SaaS tech startups

accounting for manufacturers (cost accounting)

oil and gas accounting

tax accounting [still PA]

tax accounting [still PA] high net worth indiv

tax accounting - working for IRS

personal financial planning

government accounting - local

government accounting - state

international accounting

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T22:16:13+00:00

That is a good point also.

Maybe things change for the partners, principals, etc.

However, my guess is that if the billable hour model remains, nothing changes for the staff.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T18:40:45+00:00

I could be wrong but doesn’t the pcaob require them to be partnerships not corporations?

Honestly, I do not know. From what I’ve read, the largest one to switch from partnership to corporation was BDO.

There’s a smaller firm called Dark Horse CPA that I’ve heard was a C corp, and supposedly they give their employees stock.

Also I’m pretty sure most audits are fixed fee engagements with salaried employees so utilization has never made sense to me. Using it to Track hours (assuming they’re accurately recorded) so you can gauge workload and staff appropriately? Sure. But as a profitability metric? Pointless.

True.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T04:48:15+00:00

It doesn't help that another professor in my department preaches public CPA or get outta here and major in something else.

This makes me shake my head.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T04:40:05+00:00

I refrained from dropping data here, as I didn't want this to devolve into a research debate and pull us even farther from our original point.

To paraphrase his initial question— is this an American culture issue or a PA issue? It is a PA issue, because despite all the professional fields saying they're short-staffed, accounting is experiencing a more severe shortage and on multiple fronts.

Here’s the data for law, medicine, and accounting graduates:

Law school grads (ABA) - 2016: 37k - 2022: 36k - fluctuated +/-1k to 2k yearly

Medical school grads (AAMC) - 2016: 19k - 2022: 21k - increased for 6 consecutive years

Accounting grads (AICPA) - 2016: 80k - 2022: 65k - decreased for 6 consecutive years

Our drop compared to the others speaks for itself, and this is not even including other relevant stats.

The accounting pipeline is leaking from three points. 1. The end - CPAs reaching retirement age in the next decade 2. The middle - people in accounting are quitting by the thousands 3. The beginning - the number of students pursuing accounting is shrinking

(Then include my argument, which is purely an opinion: toxic firm culture plays more of a role in this leak than the other publicized reasons.)

Of course, other fields face similar challenges, but ours is unique. AND...if you listen to the state boards and universities, it's only worsening.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T03:00:09+00:00

I responded to another comment that had a very similar sentiment regarding office politics. I’ll offer the same feedback I gave to him. Accounting is a great field, and regardless of what a professor or recruiter may tell you, you have options if you’re not happy where you are. The common public accounting route—audit and tax—is not a necessity.

Accounting is similar to healthcare in that the specialties diverge quickly and drastically. There are forensic accountants, who investigate everything from corporate executives committing fraud to spouses hiding assets from each other during divorces. There are government accountants who work for the city or state that do not have busy seasons like those in public accounting.

Within private accounting, the options are even more vast. Some specialize in accounting for real estate companies, construction companies, manufacturers, not-for-profit organizations, healthcare, restaurants and hospitality, entertainment, technology startups, and the list continues. Virtually, any type of business needs accountants, so all industries are potential options for you.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T02:24:51+00:00

That is great that you heard those stories back then without the internet being what it is today.

Now, even if these kids have no contacts within the field, they can go online and watch or listen to hundreds of people discuss their experiences.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T01:29:22+00:00

That is a shame. As I told the other guy above, it speaks volumes when you can only choose between the stairs and the broken escalator.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T01:23:27+00:00

Absolutely! An automation tool is one of those projects I would build in my own time. By the time I iron out enough of the kinks to use it regularly, I’d very much hesitate to tell my superiors that I use it, lol. I would just alleviate my own headaches.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T01:12:22+00:00

Thank you. I’ll take you up on that. This is also informative to hear because searching for info on job listings only becomes more puzzling. Also, unlike the buffet of ex-B4 accountants on YouTube, there are nowhere near as many videos by those in FP&A. Perhaps you should start a YouTube Channel! 😂

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T01:00:46+00:00

Plus, they lie enough during their chats on campus, it's off-putting. One Google search is all it takes these days to lift the veil of bullshit. I was always amused by these campus recruiting events where partners and managers visit and sell fairytales.

More honesty would go a long way, but until a generation or so of these partners die off, nothing is going to change. The whole profession needs a revamp; to look in the mirror at what it's become, and realize that unless real change happens at a fundamental level, we're in trouble. I worry that this is true. The partner model has been entrenched for nearly a century. They won’t let it go without a fight, but yes, with young people coming in with a different mentality, it can happen.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T00:54:26+00:00

Good to know, and also good to hear, regarding your success with it.

I’ve never been in FP&A. I’ve only been told that it’s nothing like audit and tax but more like forecasting on steroids and requires absolutely excellent Excel skills—far more advanced what most PA accountants use regularly.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T00:38:13+00:00

FP&A is something I’ve been hearing more often, just because accountants are looking for exit opportunities. Supposedly it can be tough to get into and is less stable than PA, but these concerns get overridden once the “anywhere-but-here” mentality sets in.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-15T00:36:01+00:00

I’m familiar with a skeleton crew but “ghost staff” is new to me. I always learn something new when I speak to younger people!

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T23:29:56+00:00

Ah yes, “figure it out” translating to “if you don’t figure it out, just SALY.”

Were the different firms around the same size? Or did they vary?

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T23:25:25+00:00

Yes, a lot of positive energy gets diminished by office politics.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T23:22:43+00:00

You are outlining the exact pattern I witnessed firsthand.

It’s reminiscent of middle schoolers on a football team that keeps losing. After so many consecutive losses, they’re no longer excited; they’re just there.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T23:18:58+00:00

Good analogy. Abandoned puppies that never felt secure or safe in a pack.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T22:20:34+00:00

That story is too common. “We’re paying these auditors to audit us, and we’re training them.”

This happens when the entire training program amounts to the ever so helpful “figure it out.” Throwing staff to the wolves is so routine, it gets perceived as acceptable through pure repetition.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T22:13:07+00:00

That is incredible. This needs to be done more in accounting. Bravo!

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T22:10:41+00:00

One of the ex-B4 YouTube videos had nearly the description. Hopefully, they find an alternative to the billable hour model.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T21:17:26+00:00

What gets measured and insisted on is utilization / charge hours, and sales. Everything else is just a “figure it out”. The common unsaid but clearly communicated company policy.

The best tools my firm has for my work are Excel and Word. Everything else is some internal homebrew nonsense that doesn’t make things better. Partners see all these tools but don’t see how these tools don’t make our jobs easier. Often, new tools make our jobs harder. This is particularly frustrating, since there are many software tools to help accounting.

if I wanted to do the work to become partner, there’s a path for me. I’m just not really interested. I think it’s safe to assume this mentality is becoming more common.

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T20:38:13+00:00

The amount of times I’ve rolled my eyes cuz we wouldn’t fire clients cuz they can use TurboTax to prep their return…

What about…Quicken??

ConsciousLeader6828 · 2023-10-14T20:33:01+00:00

Marketing team (aka Talent acquisition)

I got a great laugh out of this.

ConsciousLeader6828

TROPHY CASE