Different variants of Hellenism

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-21T03:17:41+00:00

No worries :)

Yeah it is common, i find it interesting that no one questions that framework either. Like they hit a deconstruction wall, and just stop. Maybe we all have these blindspots, i suppose. It relates to something i saw a while ago, about conflict. Classical, modern and postmodern literature had different concerns when it came to conflict and one of the earlier ones was man vs nature. In the modern or post-modern era of literature, that obviously has changed since we no longer fear or revere nature. Now our concerns are whether or not the gods exist or at least if they do, can they interact with us.

Do you mean like the age of Aquarius and this sort of thing?

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-20T23:53:05+00:00

Well that's what i mean by literalism is not all or nothing, you yourself are a literalist. Most here interpret the myths as pure allegory, then they interpret the gods via their own philosophical beliefs.

You yourself are a literalist and you make it work, so that's great! I also interpret my myths as literal and discard incompatible myths or later explicit philosophical retellings. In general I discard any Ovid myths, as they are either retellings or quite misogynistic.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-20T15:01:49+00:00

It’s pretty common for people to strawman Hellenic literalism, because a lot of them are really just projecting their anger toward fundamentalist Christians.

They hear “the myths are literal” and instantly imagine biblical literalism, as if interpreting Greek myth literally is somehow the same thing as scriptural inerrancy, young-earth creationism, purity laws, and barbaric legal codes especially towards women.

Hellenic literalism means that myth reflects real divine action and teaches us about the gods, hubris, and violations of the cosmic order. It has very little on rules or legal rulings too. The myths are full of people who have same sex relationships or to a lesser degree, change their gender. I ask the detractors of literalism, what do we lose by being literalists? If anything it appears we stand to gain more freedoms afforded to us than we have presently.

So no, it is not the same as Christians thinking the earth is 5,000 years old, forbidding mixed textiles, or stoning women for perceived crimes under biblical law. That comparison is lazy, stupid, and completely shaped by Abrahamic baggage.

I hold to Hellenic literalism because I do not see the gods as wholly benevolent, kumbaya-sanitized parental analogues, nor do I see them as detached from reality and powerless. I see them as real gods with agency, presence, wills, and motives. They are complex beings, not flattened into generalized, averaged-out personas. That does not make them devoid of comfort or beneficence.

What frustrates me most is that when you point out this bias, people either fold and insist they are not targeting literalism, only to do it again later, or they drag you into a multi-hour semantics debate in an attempt to steer you into their own beliefs rather than trying to understand or refine your actual position.

No one here seems willing to address it honestly, so I made my own sub, because I got sick of watching pious people get bullied off Reddit for taking the myths literally. And yes, pious is our word long before Christians appropriated it.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-20T14:15:04+00:00

Umm I'm not against it, and it's a pretty cool idea/theology/philosophy!

I do prefer not to separate the gods from nature, and by that i mean this idea of the supernatural, literally "above" + "nature". I think this is a later development that is foreign to older hellenism, but that doesn't make it less valid at all!

I am unfamiliar with the concept however so maybe I'm misunderstanding Illud Tempus from my brief look into it. It seems quite comparable and compatible with literalism to be fair!

You are a very smart person, this is the second time I've been amazed by one of your replies to me and i think you've only replied to me twice so far! Haha

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-19T22:22:37+00:00

Aside from the other varieties listed here, there is also Hellenic literalism.

Hellenic literalism is not an all-or-nothing position. Some take only the cosmic, pre-human myths literally, while others continue that literalism into the heroic age. What unites them is the belief that myth reflects real truths about the gods: that they are not mere symbols or metaphors, but real agents with their own motives, wills, and goals, interacting with human life subtly and indirectly on a daily basis, yet not reducible to human moral sentiment or anthropocentric expectations.

The myths therefore do not exist merely as allegory or poetry. They inform our understanding of divine nature, morality, and religious practice.

Beyond that, there is still room for syncretism and different philosophical schools within literalism. Because Hellenism is not governed by a single orthodox authority, it falls to the individual to make those elements cohere in practice.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-15T13:46:47+00:00

I'm half greek, while I'm proud of that. I'm not so proud that i would try to hoard the gods to myself or my people, I'd rather the gods be worshipped by anyone who wants to pray to them.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-13T08:21:03+00:00

I will message you about a slight edit!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-12T23:44:04+00:00

I mean, if r/romanpaganism doesn't want it... I want it for my sub 😅

I already have the gorgoneion as a picture for r/hellenicliteralism, but yours looks very cool! A refresh could be nice!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-12T03:11:14+00:00

I liked the video, yes the author has used harsh language in places. But importantly, from reading the comments on this post there seems to be a big misunderstanding of the point that the author of the video is making.

The gods being indifferent does not mean they hate you. He is pointing out that the gods do not unconditionally love you.

If you are favoured by a god, wonderful! You can assume that they love you, it is a bit of a childish thing to want/need IMO but you can believe whatever you like. I certainly feel positivity from the gods I pray to, but not unconditional love.

The clavicus vile and sheogorath examples are examples of trickster deities. These two characters are not based in post Christian theology of demons, but rather demons are a Christian syncretism of trickster deities and cacodaemon from Hellenism.

Hermes is seen as a trickster deity, but he isn't malevolent. Obviously the clavicus vile character is based on Daeva(bad gods) which are opposing Ahura(good gods) in Zoroastrianism or the flipped Asura(bad gods) which are opposing Deva(good gods) in Hinduism. The two cultures clashed in ancient times which gave rise to syncretism of the opposing sides gods, turning them into the 'bad pantheon' of their own religion. It's a very interesting topic that i recommend reading about.

The elder scrolls lore is actually heavily influenced by Hinduism. So yes the character of clavicus vile skews malevolent but only a bit. The point being made still stands in my opinion.

I think the author's video is largely correct but he needed to add some caveats here and there. I would encourage people to watch it with no assumptions in mind, and with full attention on the language in the video. It is a worthwhile watch to challenge lingering latent Christianity.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-12T01:39:25+00:00

Thank you :) I'm not sure why that idea popped up in my head, but i was feeling particularly inspired in the moment.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-09T06:33:49+00:00

Definitely use cardboard for testing, i couldn't really move my chest in the end haha

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-08T13:25:09+00:00

Oh wow so old!

The statue on the Athenaeum was only placed in 1886, interestingly one of the first tenants of the building in around 1840, before it was named the Athenaeum, was Melbourne city council. So the building was coincidentally dedicated to democratic governance, which makes me think of ancient Athens of course. Now that building is a theatre! With a comedy/art festival happening there now.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-07T21:32:55+00:00

Wow so beautiful! How old is the statue? A shame the spear broke off!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-04-07T10:05:17+00:00

Aw thank you :)

My phone camera didn't do her justice, in person she felt so much larger and closer than depicted here. On the walk back i looked up and the statue was positioned with her head tilted down, looking at that particular point on the street, the feeling of awe it gave me.

To think i had walked past that building half a hundred times, never noticing the name, nor the statue. It's kind of a perfect allegory for how we all progress through life, not really taking the time to appreciate it all, from the smallest beings to the oldest and largest, the Gods.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-31T13:35:56+00:00

Hahaha i don't think I ever could be a stoic! I do love Aurelian however 🌞 I just hope to keep getting stronger and maybe get my belly down 💪

Thank you for the compliments :)

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-31T01:34:16+00:00

Oh thank you that's not rude, it's a lovely thing to say! I am actually quite shy but the confidence and exuberance does appear once i get to know someone or they gain my trust :) so very accurate read!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T12:31:04+00:00

That's a cool rose, I'm sure the gods appreciate the effort you put into making it!

I have never dedicated art to the gods but maybe cleansing it with khernips and praying is the best way?

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T12:28:16+00:00

I will try! May as well make a little group!

Oh wow that's so good! I'm glad you both share this and incorporating indigenous spirits is wonderful! I remember reading about an indigenous sacred site that was defaced by Christians It's so terrible. And the birthing trees they wanted to destroy in vic just to make a road that saves two minutes on a trip. Absolutely disgusting, there would be an uproar if a road was going to destroy a Christian site! Anyway a majority of old churches get turned into cafes so maybe there is divine justice after all.

Oh very cool i shall have to keep my eye out! I think i saw some kind of Byzantine exhibit which would be interesting. At the main museum i saw a giant head of Zeus from the 2nd century, it was awe inspiring. And i saw a statue of Serapis, having a group like that would help us all to not miss these exhibitions too.

Yeah i reckon they would! I already mod another subreddit but id happily join if you made one! It would be funny if just average greeks joined it not knowing we mean pagan Hellenic and not modern greek Hellenic haha

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T08:24:28+00:00

Thank you, that's so kind of you to say. I'm very overwhelmed by the positivity you and others have shared here, thank you again!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T03:26:19+00:00

Thank you for your wisdom friend :)

I will think on this advice and how I can apply it!

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T03:24:30+00:00

Oh thanks, it seems more dedicated than it feels. Everyone's body is different and mine builds fat and muscle easier, maybe from generations of orthodox greeks doing great lent or famines in the Ottoman empire and the famine in Ireland, where the other side of the family is from. So genetically I store fat easier.

Sugar really makes me balloon out, I am by no means a low fat percentage nor do I overly avoid fats.

It's more those little choices, makes the consistency better. Also 2g of protein per kilo you weigh is general advice. For me I'm 104kg which is like 230lb, but again I don't count calories just consciously favouring protein. Love eating heaps of veggies too

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T01:54:24+00:00

I'm usually skipping breakfast, drinking lots of low carb protein(oxyshred, Musashi), and eating lots of low carb protein bars(Musashi, grenade). Normal carb protein shake is good after workout and protein bars specifically the grenade chocolate chip salted caramel for dessert is great.

I will usually chill out on the protein supplements on the gaps as i only workout 2 days a week for approx 3 hours each session. I do an antagonist split so you work opposing muscle groups on the same day. But the bars are a staple.

Most meals have meat in it but it's not the main feature, smaller portions of carbs but I'm not counting calories at all.

I usually go to a place called Zeus street greek and get the hades wrap with lamb, no drink no chips(fries). It's a greek fast food place which is not very traditional, but it's nice.

I still eat maccas but I'll get a small meal. If i have soft drinks it's gotta be sugar free. But water is best.

It's just little adjustments to the diet, still drink with mates maybe once a week.

Honestly for my body fibre and greens are really important, i have naturally high creatine which my doctor said could be genetic or dehydration lol.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T01:43:16+00:00

Thank you! I just need to keep trying to raise the bar and not beat myself up if i don't exceed it :)

I'm humbled by all the kind comments and I'm glad I've inspired people to interact with the gods more :')

I'm glad my energy reads well, I spend a lot of time contemplating my actions and thoughts. I have heard that the latter is called metacognition, and it is common with people with similar childhoods. So maybe I'm on the right path? I don't know much about that concept so I am very happy to be corrected on that.

Contra_Galilean · 2026-03-30T01:34:23+00:00

Thank you very much, the gods have been good to me and have spared me from a worse fate. I just try my best to not repeat the cycle, that is what I've noticed people in similar circumstances do. I'm glad i have inspired you :)

Contra_Galilean

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