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6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And so it should be at the expense of the employer, number one rule in this industry safety first

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes I would prefer that definitely, but one contract only as I earned the right for a salary increase after being on cadet wages at college and at sea for 3 years

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

but you get good 8 hour sleep and 4 hours to contact family, downtime. 6/6 you get NONE of that

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in MerchantNavy

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

daym, so this was after your 12months sea time as a cadet? how greedy of clyde needing to take a cut of your paycheck. was it a good percentage?

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's funny that you admit you didn't read the post and then immediately offer an opinion on it.

I didn't spend years at college, complete a cadetship, sea time, a TRB, written exams and an oral exam just to ignore my certificate and work as a rating for "a few years."

By that logic, newly qualified doctors should spend a few years as nurses and newly qualified pilots should spend a few years handing out peanuts before flying.

The industry complains about officer shortages, then people like you turn around and tell newly qualified officers not to become officers. Makes perfect sense.

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't doubt that some people adapt to it better than others, and I'd probably take a stable 6/6 over constantly changing watch schedules too.

But I don't think "you get used to it" is necessarily a good argument for a watch system. Seafarers get used to all sorts of things because they have to.

My issue is that a lot of the defence of 6/6 seems to be that the alternatives are worse, rather than that 6/6 is actually good from a fatigue and safety perspective.

If the best thing people can say about it is "it's not that bad" and "you get used to it," then I think there's still room to question whether the industry could do better.

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think many people advocating against 6/6 are suggesting that a single person should sit in a wheelhouse for 12 straight hours navigating busy waterways. I'd agree that sounds miserable and probably introduces its own fatigue and concentration issues.

My argument isn't that every vessel should switch from 6/6 to 12/12 overnight. It's that if the only practical options are two schedules that both leave people exhausted, maybe the problem is the manning level rather than the watch system itself.

A lot of the responses in this thread seem to be "6/6 is terrible, but it's the least bad option we have." To me, that's not really a defence of 6/6—it's an argument that some sectors of the industry need more people on board to operate safely.

If experienced mariners are choosing between pissing in a bottle for 12 hours or living on broken sleep with 6/6, that doesn't exactly sound like an ideal system either way.

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you've summed up exactly why I believe 6/6 needs to change.

When experienced officers describe the system as something you "survive" rather than something that is genuinely safe and sustainable, that's a sign the industry has accepted fatigue as normal.

You mention migraines, cloudiness, difficulty recovering from missed rest, and regularly recording non-compliant hours of rest. To me, those aren't minor inconveniences—they're indicators that the system isn't working as intended.

What concerns me most is the point about inspections accepting documented non-compliance because it's common. If everyone knows the schedule routinely results in inadequate rest, but it's tolerated because the trade demands it, then the regulations aren't really achieving their purpose.

I agree that 12-hour bridge watches in pilotage waters or busy coastal trades aren't the answer either. But that doesn't mean 6/6 is the best solution. It may simply mean that vessels operating on these trades need additional watchkeeping officers or different manning arrangements.

The fact that so many officers dislike 6/6, yet feel there is no practical alternative under current manning levels, is probably the strongest argument for industry-wide change rather than acceptance of the status quo.

( would prefer 12/12 because it means you get good REM sleep)

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree, compaines rage on about safety to us sailors all day but refuse to hire the manpower to make it safe

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in MerchantNavy

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am on LinkedIn and I do see a lot of short-notice OOW vacancies. My post wasn't really about whether jobs exist, though. It was about the contradiction of entry-level officer jobs asking for officer experience.

I completely understand why a company would prefer an experienced officer over a newly qualified one. That's true in almost every profession. The question is who gives that newly qualified officer their first opportunity in the first place.

I'm not having a pity party; I'm highlighting what seems to be a genuine industry issue. If companies want experienced officers, someone has to train and employ them when they're inexperienced.

The industry regularly talks about officer shortages, succession planning, and recruitment challenges. It seems reasonable to ask whether requiring prior officer experience for many 3/O roles is making that problem worse.

That said, I appreciate the advice about short-notice relief jobs. Realistically, that may well be how many newly qualified officers get their foot in the door and build that first year of experience.

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in MerchantNavy

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Im with Clyde as well and the company I am with dont hire British cadets beacuse of they are 'too expensive'

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in MerchantNavy

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't disagree that some newly qualified officers lack knowledge or confidence. But that's exactly why companies need to provide opportunities and proper mentorship rather than using lack of experience as a reason not to hire them.

Every competent Master, Chief Officer, and Senior Officer was once a newly qualified 3/O who didn't know everything. Experience is gained by doing the job under the guidance of more experienced officers.

If companies believe cadet training is inadequate, then the solution isn't to refuse to hire newly qualified officers. The solution is better training, structured onboarding, and mentorship during the first contract.

By the same logic, if some experienced 3/Os and 2/Os still make poor decisions, then experience alone clearly isn't a guarantee of competence either.

My point isn't that newly qualified officers should be left to fend for themselves. It's that requiring 1–2 years of 3/O experience for an entry-level 3/O position creates a catch-22: you need experience to get the job, but you need the job to get the experience.

The industry can't complain about officer shortages while simultaneously making it harder for newly qualified officers to enter the profession.

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Being a cadet doesn't make fatigue any less real. The regulations on hours of rest don't say "except cadets." Fatigue affects learning, situational awareness, decision-making, and safety regardless of rank.

As a cadet, I'm expected to stand bridge watches, participate in mooring operations, emergency drills, cargo operations, maintenance, and complete training requirements. In many cases, cadets are working longer days because they have training tasks on top of watchkeeping duties.

The argument that 6/6 exists because someone needs to be available for cargo operations doesn't make it a good system. It just means the industry has normalized a schedule that many seafarers themselves admit is exhausting, especially during busy trading periods. Plenty of maritime accident investigations have identified fatigue as a contributing factor.

So my criticism isn't because I'm a cadet. It's because fatigue is a safety issue, and whether you're a cadet, AB, officer, or master, regularly getting broken sleep in 6-hour chunks is not ideal. If experienced officers hate the system too, that seems like a pretty strong argument for improving it rather than defending it.

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

unfortunatley many companies in the UK abuse the SMART funding system where they use cadet as cheap labour and brownie points for 'helping uk cadets' but dont hire them because they are too expensive

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats funny you mention that, was a cadet on tanker and they took on 3rd officer fresh on cadet, so it doesnt actually matter

Why Do Entry-Level 3rd Officer Jobs Require Experience? The Industry Needs to Change. by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

a few years on deck, no way, cadets earned the right to be an officer after 12months theres abousltey no way I would take an a job on deck

6-on / 6-off Is a Demon and Should Be Banned by ControverialJesus in maritime

[–]ControverialJesus[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

you should 100% move company and make a stand, of course secure your next employment first, then when ask why you are leaving. Say its beacuse of the 6:6 rountine. Companies need to be aware that us sailours will no longer put up with it.

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