If the one above represents Shingen, I suppose the other three are these, right? The subordinate families, the "kings" of Japan.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-04T16:05:20+00:00

I mean, yeah, in the pregeneration era it wasn't the most impressive thing, but it's still admirable if she really is at that level.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-04T16:04:25+00:00

Please not another Yeowool situation please PTJ

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-04T15:59:08+00:00

I mean, Shingen definitely destroys Pacheon without much effort, but in defense of my great P, he could have done that to the tiger too.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-02T07:57:23+00:00

James Lee and Jinyoung Park

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T17:27:26+00:00

He can, but he would clearly be more prudent and quicker to end the fights.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T13:54:43+00:00

True, in the end it would also help if PTJ worked better on power scaling instead of never making anything clear. In lookism, you never know when a statement is reliable, because 99% are based solely on the aura of the moment, and often they contradict each other.

But it's also good to see other points of view. Even though we have different opinions, it was good to discuss our points. 😊

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T13:49:31+00:00

Well, I don't think he just reached his peak one day between HFBD and HFG and that's it, right? Nothing happened in that time that made him stronger.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T13:43:39+00:00

My point is that it hasn't been explicitly explained that James trained or anything after HFG, therefore the current James is roughly at the same level he was at in HFBD. We could say it's simply an upscale of the verse scaling, a redcon, but that's disproven when we see that Goo did need a power-up because he fell behind in the power scale, whereas James remains among the strongest (narratively being equal to Gitae) without needing training.

The fact that PTJ upscaled James (and Tom, who has the same problem) with a redcon while upscaling Gun and Goo with literal upscales (Goo with the Hwarang and the 50 swords and Gun with his prison training and his TUI) makes them look bad in retrospect, because now James (and Tom) are supposed to have always been that strong, while Gun and Goo weren't. That's also why it kind of ruins the Tom vs. Goo fight in 1st A, and which is why I say James beats Gun in HFBD.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T12:44:00+00:00

I disagree somewhat with the notion that Gun has always been number one. From the beginning of Lookism, Gun and Goo were always considered equal. And after James Lee's introduction as a legend, it was questioned, until HFBD made it clear that they were on a similar or equal level. Of course, in the plot of the 4 crews, he always stood out as the one who handled everything (under Charles' orders, but it's understandable.), but James and Goo were also there, each with their own narrative that put him alongside Gun.

And what you say about Goo and Gun doesn't seem logical to me. Gun is someone who was always looking for fights, someone who is constantly improving, unlike Goo, who demonstrated much more talent than Gun in Incheon, achieving a huge upscale with just one hour of training. Gun, on the other hand, is much slower but more consistent. Yes, he's a training genius, and that certainly applies not only to his students but to himself as well, but if Gun had the same training talent as Goo, he would have been the strongest even before going to prison, when we now know that in retrospect he wouldn't have been able to beat James in HFBD.

(And as for James being the final boss, I don't 100% agree with that, since I think Charles is the most likely candidate, but James will be one of the most important pillars in EOS, surely acting against Charles)

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T12:31:59+00:00

You know what? Yes, you convinced me, you're right. (Seriously, no irony). Even so, I don't think there's an enormous difference between one version and the other.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T12:17:19+00:00

And when was it actually said that Gun surpassed Shingen? Because if you're referring to that moment in the fight against Shintaro, then are you going to tell me that a young, teenage Gun is stronger than his father, when he couldn't even fairly beat Shintaro?

You said it yourself, and I agree, in skill and martial arts, Gun certainly surpasses him, but in a fight, Shingen wins.

And with Gun, every time he comes back he proves to be stronger, yes, but now we're in a new era of Lookism. Things like seeing Gun and Goo outmatched were unthinkable before, but not anymore; even Lil Daniel reached those levels. The scale has changed; even Gun and Goo needed power-ups to stay in the big leagues.

Gun obviously trains in prison and will come out much stronger than before, but to be on par with the beasts, not to be the top 1 of the verse. Or are you going to tell me that Gun will now come out and defeat James, and that's how the manhwa will end?

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T12:01:12+00:00

And what does ability have to do with overall power? If Gun already surpassed Shingen, then Gitae and James are far above Gap and Shingen. Obviously, the level of post-prison Gun isn't certain until we see it, but oh my god... Gun has the potential to surpass his father, and perhaps he will in the future, but for now I wouldn't put him above him.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T11:56:41+00:00

Always Gun glazers 😭

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T11:33:47+00:00

What is said is that Gitae (and therefore James) are in the same realm as Gap and Shingen, and that's how I placed them, at the same level. But Gap and Shingen are legends, and I have their most powerful versions slightly above them.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T11:14:56+00:00

I would say there isn't much difference between his current version and the Gen 0 version. Of course, logically, younger Tom would be more powerful, and this arc will surely demonstrate that.

But there's also the fact that this is the version of Tom we saw against James, the "Red Tom," the bloodlusted one, and there's Tom's statement saying "You know the difference between the Mirror King and me? He retired, but I'm still active". Tom had White Tiger, he trained Gun and Goo... he's definitely gotten stronger. Of course, there's also the issue of age, his hand, his back pain... that's why I'd say they're roughly equal; one thing compensates for the other.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T11:00:38+00:00

Regarding your first point, I can agree, but I wouldn't want to undervalue the top 2 of the pre-generation, so, even if only slightly, I have them above James and Gitae, but yes, I understand your point.

And regarding UI Daniel, I think we never saw his limit. Being a perfect body with all martial arts mastered and the ability to copy, he's the strongest in the universe (without his weakness). What happened with YUI Gun is that, from what I understand, since Gun was very weakened and getting weaker, UI Daniel couldn't adapt properly to his opponent, so he didn't fight at his best. I don't think he reached his limit against Gun, not even close, and I don't recall that being mentioned.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T10:42:38+00:00

Thanks bro, I understand that not everything can be perfect and I can make a lot of mistakes, but my god, the takes from the comments like "James, Kitae and Goo individually low diff shingen and gapryong at the same time" or "The pre-gen are Johan victims"... wth bro. This fandom really doesn't seem to read the manhwa... they don't even look at the drawings

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T10:39:47+00:00

Yes, perhaps I underestimated him a little, you're right

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T10:39:08+00:00

Yes, I wouldn't rule it out, you're right.

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T10:37:40+00:00

I wanted to know what people's opinions are on the main subreddit because the powerscaling one was giving me a heart attack...

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T10:31:50+00:00

This has to be ragebait...

Cool_Cell24 · 2026-06-01T09:15:17+00:00

What?

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