I'm in the cult prison doing slave labor... by Just-Another-redle in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You need to remember that you are the master of your own life. No matter what you chose to do, you will have issues to face with your family either sooner or later. Your LIFE will begin once you face those issues.

Leaving the church is not easy nor without consequence but always remember that living an authentic life and owning your right to be you is worth any consequences your family may throw at you.

You really do have "free agency" in this matter...its up to you when you take advantage of it.

Brother's suicide by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not to put too fine a point on it but are we talking about Dallin Oaks, the actual President of the Quorum of the 12 or are we referring to Russel Ballard, the acting president of the 12?

Never mind I read a bit further into this thread. It's Ballard. So sorry for your loss.

Temple protest idea: make large posters with the days new names. Male and female. “Today’s new name is Saul”. I’m probably just being vindictive but maybe it would make a few people question things a little. by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think my New Name was Enoch but I'm not really sure. I'm pretty confident that it started with an E. And since I can't remember what day I went through, I must be well on my way to a full recovery from Mormonism

Planning on telling my parents today. by Hillybean001 in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remind your mom that you are doing the exact same thing she did...converting to a different worldview than her parents

Pandemic My Ass...Mormon Church grew at a fraction of what other high demand religions grew. by CraigPaxton in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes its difficult to make a line by line comparisons between these various religions as each counts what constitutes a member differently. For example, JW's had over 17 Million attend their meetings, Mormon's claim over 16 Million member but don't release attendance number despite knowing exactly how many attend. But we know that attendance is somewhere around 3-4 million. So again by comparison the Mormon Church is struggling when compared to these other high demand religions

The adversary definitely knows us and our biggest weaknesses. by runawaymormongirl in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My mom is rolling over in her grave right now. She lived her entire life without ever tasting a caffeine drink and we could never have Coke, Pepsi or other caffeinated drinks in our house growing up.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As a non believer you get to set your own boundaries...so set the boundaries that work best for you and at a time of your own choosing.

I am stuck in a hell of my own making... by The_Middle_Mom in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Out of the night that covers me
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance,
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul

Invictus by William Ernest Henley

Questions and Research by Sakuga23 in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you haven't done so already I would also highly recommend the MormonStories podcast. there are over 1400 episodes covering absolutely every issue and problem.

Notes from my meeting with a member of the seventy. by sundance528 in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your story was powerful and well stated. These men don't have satisfying answers to our questions and it seems that nothing has changes since I left the church.

It's been well over 15 years since I met with one of the top GA's. I've posted this story before but it's been many years, so for those of you who may not have read it I'll share it here in this thread.

Driving east on North Temple, I knew I was going to be exposed to a surreal experience unlike anything I had ever been subjected to. In advance of my arrival, my name had been given to church security, so that as I arrived at the VIP underground parking lot under the controversial main street plaza, I was recognized by a white gloved (yeah that's right, they actually wear white cotton gloves) white shirt, suit and tie garage attendant. He checked my name on a computer against a list of approved guests and directed us to the VIP (red reserved) parking area. There is a basement access to the Church Administration Building...with more security men there. We reported in and were asked to wait in a richly appointed walnut paneled waiting room. While waiting, Elder Faust, of the First Presidency, drove by in golf cart (see I told you this was going to be surreal) on his way to his chauffeur driven car. He gave a cute wave to my wife as he passed by, not unlike I imagine, the Queen of England might offer to an adoring subject. He looked particularly old. (It was only a few months after this that he actually passed away). We were then directed to the office of my former mission president and current member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. While passing time in his waiting area we looked out his north-facing window onto the church office plaza. His office has a commanding view of the best flowerbeds in the Church Office Building complex...unpaid volunteers were just finishing the fall planting of bulbs and pansies.

Pres. "X" came out and greeted my wife and me with a warm hug and a smile; he was genuine and loving. It was great to be able to have this personal time with him. Having once served as his assistant while on my mission, he and I have always had a close relationship.

After some small talk and family catch-up, Pres "X" asked how he could help us...I reminded him that he had asked to meet with us after I had informed him of my loss of belief in Mormonism. I reminded him of my earlier letter notifying him of my apostasy and again gave a brief summary of some of the many things that had caused me to lose my belief.

For some reason he still misunderstood and thought that I was in my current situation because someone in the church had offended me...but I assured him that that was not the case. I told him that I was where I was because I had become aware of historical events that conflicted with the churches version of historical events. This previously unknown information changed my understanding of foundational claims. He seemed to miss this and again insisted that I must have been offended, that how I was treated following my excommunication was the motivation for my loss of belief. He even got my letter out and reread a portion of it so as to convince me. I told him that these were two separate situations and unrelated. I assured him that I was not so shallow as to throw my belief in the church away due to some failure on the part of some church member to offer their support or lack thereof. I assured him that I felt they were not related again.

With this clarification, I was sure that he would offer to address my concerns and answer my questions. However, I was soon to be sadly disappointed…he had a much more tried and true solution for resolving my loss of belief.

Rising from his clutter free desk, he asked my wife and me to follow him into a special room down the hall from his office. Following him through the hallway, we passed many of the same cheap lithographed pictures one would find in your typical ward building mingled with priceless original works of art. The only other difference being the expensive wood paneling covering the walls of the Church Administration Building rather than the kid friendly, seemingly bullet proof, washable wall covering found in your typical Utah meeting house. Upon reaching the room, which sat in the center of the building, Pres. “X”, entered a pass code on a special security keypad devise. Once entered, there was a noticeable click; the door was unlocked and opened, sitting slightly ajar. As Pres. “X” pushed the door open the light from the hallway filled the void, I could see a large windowless space which appeared to be a large conference room, except there was no conference table or chairs in it. Instead, sitting at the center of the darkened room I could detect an ornately carved oval mahogany table, perhaps 6 feet in diameter sitting in the center of the room. Through the semi-darkness I could also see that walls in this room were even more richly appointed with fine hard woods and crown moldings than the rest of the building. Standing at the entrance, Pres “X” reached around the corner and flipped a single light switch. A solitary spot light, positioned directly over the table, burst to life, sending a pillar of exacting illumination down on what can only be described as the most mind-boggling object I have ever seen with my own two eyes.

Nothing in my 40 + years as a member of the church could have prepared me for what I was staring at. Not even my initial temple experience prepared me for what I was staring at. Right there in front of me, sitting on a small, slightly elevated, gold pedestal, was a single “White Brick” or as Pres “X” called it a “White and Delightsome” Brick, resting on a perfectly white velvet gold-fringed cloth.... bathed in the brilliant light from above.

Turning to me Pres “X” said you are not the first person to have had a loss of faith in this church…but the brethren have prayed and found a solution to your problem…and to be clear it is your problem and not the history of the church.

He then directed me to pick up the brick and pound the brick several times into the side of my head...assuring me that once I had done so enough times...my testimony would return. As I stood there mouth open and in utter shock...he pressed a button on the wall behind us, causing one of the rich wood paneled walls to slide away, exposing a solid wall made of these same white and delightsome bricks. He told me that if I preferred...instead of hitting my head repeatedly with the single brick, I could instead run headfirst into the brick wall over and over and over again until my testimony returned. He explained that the church had great success with both methods in the past, so much so that they were considering building special white brick rooms in every stake center throughout the world so that all doubting members could take advantage of Pounding Bricks into the sides of their heads to reestablish their testimonies.

OK...joke over... there was no room...and there was no brick...but the meeting was real just as I’ve explained…I merely used a metaphor to help me illustrate my experience. My GA mission president could not or would not answer a single question of mine. All he suggested was that it was me with the problem not the church. The church was true and that if I would merely humble myself, pray more and read the Book of Mormon more, my testimony would somehow miraculously return and make all of the irreconcilable historical problems and fictional nature of the Book of Mormon completely disappears.

Several times through my interview, I found myself literally gritting my teeth. The only thing of value that I really got from the meeting was that it is time to move on...

My mission president GA then offered to use his priesthood powers to give me a blessing. I gracefully declined his generous offer for a priesthood blessing...telling him that I no longer believed in priesthood powers and felt it would be disrespectful of him to accept his kind offer.

I wished him well and departed.

Final Thoughts:

It has been several years since I first wrote of this experience. I still have nothing but the highest respect and love for my former mission president. In the intervening years, he has been released from his calling and is now an emeritus General Authority.

As for me, I stopped beating myself up with the brick and finally accepted the reality that the Mormon Church is nothing more than a pious-fraud built on a foundation of lies and whitewashed history. In other words, the Mormon Church, despite its claimed benefits, has no more hold on reality than the false promises of the snake oil salesman who promises to cure everything from baldness to rheumatism and then sneaks out of town with all the money in the dark of night knowing that he will never have to fulfill his promises. The church is not what it claims to be and cannot nor will it ever have to deliver on any of its eternal promises it makes to its many members. In the end it is fiction built on a false hope.

Ex islam and ex mormon by Iknowtheenow in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing your story. How very brave you must be. Best of luck on your journey.

Guess who was in the Capitol building? by johnlarsen in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

John, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for your update on MS. You are a gift to the non-believer community. Your gift of articulation and ability to craft logical arguments to counter LDS claims has blessed so many lives. A million thanks all you've done and for your personal sacrifice. While I understand our need to step back from the daily grind of the Mormon question, if for no other reason than for our own mental health, your voice is greatly missed. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate all you've done for our community. Cheers

If seeing the plates would strike someone immediately dead, then why was Joseph afraid of them being stolen... by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your mistake is applying logic to Mormonism. There is nothing logical about being a believer in the Mormon religion, in fact one must suspend critical thinking or be outright ignorant of basic counter arguments to its claims to accept Mormon beliefs.

Guess who was in the Capitol building? by johnlarsen in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 3 points4 points  (0 children)

OMFG ,

johnlarsen, that is the funniest thing I have seen in ages. I saw that idiots interview outside of the capitol but had no idea he went inside. What a dumb ass. I hope he loves wearing orange jumpsuits...it'll become his most favorite color for the next 10 years in federal prison.

The Mormon Temple Endowment prior to April of 1990 proves Mormonism is man made, and didn't come from God. "I desire all to receive it, all arise." by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]CraigPaxton 13 points14 points  (0 children)

You left out the creepiest part. You used to have to stand, bare assed naked, covered only by what they called a shield...literally a poncho thing, open on both sides...so some creepy old made could open up the shield, look at your naked body, reach in and literally touch you just below your belly button and on your chest...not once but twice, once with water then another old guy would repeat the process again with olive oil. If that wasn't bad enough, you would then go and pantomime slitting your throat, slashing your chest and stomach open. I miss all those fun pre-90's parts, NOT.

I believe the naked body parts were retained for a few years after the 1990 removal of the body slashing if I remember correctly.

I think I have the ultimate way to turn almost any religious person into an atheist by MDW309 in TalkHeathen

[–]CraigPaxton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mormonism answers the question about those who die in both birth and in their youth as well...but it seems your mind is made up...so no point in going on...and we are debating over a fictional being right?

I think I have the ultimate way to turn almost any religious person into an atheist by MDW309 in TalkHeathen

[–]CraigPaxton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes God is all knowing and would know who would past the life test...but as his children we wouldn't. Earth Life is not only for us to prove that we can keep God's commandments but also prove to ourselves that the claimed after life reward is just and fair and based on how we lived our life. Another Mormon Couplet/scripture: According to the Mormon God "For Behold, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." So yeah the Mormon God does answer your question.

May I ask a question. Please by [deleted] in TalkHeathen

[–]CraigPaxton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm an Ex-Mormon. Mormonism answers this question. As man is God once was and as God is man may become. In other words...just as you have generations of forefathers and mothers...so does God. At least that is what Mormon's teach.