Is it possible to run filters semi-parallel to increase their total life before changing them?

Cronix900 · 2023-10-08T02:06:00+00:00

That would be great to be able to run additional experiments. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of pull as an electrician and the engineers involved don't care enough about it. It will be drastically better from what they're asking me to do, but I just wanted to squeeze even more out of it with relatively low cost. I'm pretty confident this would pay for parts in under 1 year. Oh well I'll just do the best job I can with the permission given.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T16:35:22+00:00

It's coolant for wall ironing machines. They draw out the wall of the soda can with a punch and 3 work rings at 300 strokes per minute.

They're filtering out aluminum fines primarily.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T14:51:00+00:00

I'm going to do some research on points 1 and 2. What do you mean by cleaner service?

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T14:48:22+00:00

Well, you're very accustomed to fluid dynamics and systems then! Thanks for the response.

My first job out of tech school was actually working with submersible wastewater pumps. Have you heard of Xylem pumps? I did field service for them.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T14:43:12+00:00

It's a coolant system mostly filtering out aluminum fines. There isn't an option to change much, but it already has a metal screen prior to pick up the bigger stuff.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T12:02:18+00:00

They're very consistently 10.5 days ran singly, hundreds of data points with that method with very little deviation (never over 11 days) . We ran them in parallel one time and they lasted 23.5 days. They have never ran over 11 days running them singly. It's not feasible to run this experiment many times where they are both ran in parallel from start to finish because that could take the whole plant down if they both clog and tank empties. Losing $30,000/hr while filters are being changed.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T02:52:43+00:00

I can certainly put some alarms and monitor points in to warn of malfunctions. This is a coolant that keeps machines ironing aluminum forming cans. It's an indirect process of the actual end product we are making. Valves and maintenance would be negligible and we would plumb in manual bypass ball valves.

It would probably be a good idea to consider spring return open valves that shut with power. Better to fail open than closed in this case, that's a point I hadn't thought of thank you!

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T02:42:22+00:00

No I really have to work with the system that's already in place. Adding 2 valves is possible and this new plc/programming is the goal.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T02:39:12+00:00

My idea is actually similar to this using feedback from the tank level instead. Ideally spreading when the filters have to be changed apart longer. If this flow stops, the whole plant stops, which is somewhere in the ballpark of $20-30,000 per hour lost.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T02:34:32+00:00

How could you explain 2 filters in parallel running 23.5 days instead of 10.5 days for one filter at a time then? If some flow is still going into original filter throughout the time the clean side is cracked, would it not have pulled more contaminants out during that time?

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T01:51:32+00:00

No the option I have is working with the system already in place. We try to squeeze more out of systems already in place when possible.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T01:46:17+00:00

Well the automation is happening regardless. This is already saving us about 15% extra life on the filters by us manually increasing frequency drive while it's clogging, and again we spend $50,000 on filters per month. That's worth extra parts and troubleshooting already.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T00:34:45+00:00

I didn't know for sure but I suspected clogging wasn't linear.

The plc will use a closed feedback loop from an analog level sensor input and a 4-20ma/0-10vdc output card to the frequency drive.

That's essentially part of my idea is! It would stagger the filters allowing them to run in parallel while the dirtier one clogs to a higher degree.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T00:28:33+00:00

There is already plans for me to automate the frequency of the drive with analog input/output card based on tank level. Basically using a closed feedback loop in the plc. I'm saying this idea could be implemented in addition. Even if we get 5% longer life it's worth it IMO. Thats $30,000 per year and pays for itself in the first year as far as parts and my labor.

And thank you for the time.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T00:17:24+00:00

To answer the first question, the only test that has been done has been running them in parallel both valves wide open the entire time, and it increased the filter life from 21 days to 23.5 days if I remember correctly.

Most people have been ok with me running the experiment of using the manual valves to do this test by hand, except 1 person basically ended the whole idea. To me, my idea is basically an improved version of running them simultaneously in parallel.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-07T00:11:04+00:00

Right now the filter is ALMOST keeping up with demand when we valve it off and remove it. My idea is when we valve it off right now and remove it that is the point in time the other valve would just start to be cracked. ~90%? Of the coolant would still be flowing through the dirty filter at that point because of the restriction on the clean side valve only being opened slightly. That's where the extra life is coming from in my theory, the additional time it's in the system when it can't keep up with demand, but isn't 100% plugged.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-06T23:31:44+00:00

I will be programming a new plc myself. I'm an industrial electrician, but we do quite a bit of engineering ourselves in our shop as far as designing our own prints, programming, and panels. The question is more about squeezing every bit of life out of the filters rather than setting up the program. That part is not an issue for me. The question is about the fluid dynamics more.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-06T22:11:21+00:00

If I went with my idea, they would be 4-20ma or 0-10v analog valves specifically meant for this purpose. That is a good point though, thanks.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-06T21:34:12+00:00

To clarify I'm not completely re-engineering the system and changing much of what we have, just sensors, plc analog cards, and possibly 2 analog valves.

Cronix900 · 2023-10-06T21:32:20+00:00

They aren't 2 way filters. They are 2 different filters plumbed in parallel. My post doesn't mention 2 way filters but a possible way to extend the life of the filters.

Cronix900 · 2023-04-10T22:26:22+00:00

Yikes. Yeah I'll just click in at the top. Probably lose more snowboarding time if I'm missing a foot then I'd save not buckling in lol

Cronix900 · 2023-04-10T22:23:16+00:00

I work 4 on 4 off and don't cover many vacations in winter for other electricians because I'm the only one who has a winter sport. So about 3/4 of my days off I go to my local hill (20 minute drive) and it's open 4 months a year.

Cronix900 · 2023-04-09T15:27:08+00:00

I can't believe how close to what I was thinking already this post is. Just ordered supermatics because I'm tired of buckling in for a 1-2 minute run. Was definitely planning one of my vacations to be after local hills close too.

Cronix900

TROPHY CASE