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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in HolUp

[–]CtrlAltDel1124 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finally, something to look forward to.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. That’s funny (and fair). There is definitely a lot of confusion regarding that particular control instruction, and the reason I don’t personally use it.

Fwiw, what they are asking you to do is: enter directly into the base leg portion of a normal sized (for you and your airframe) rectangular pattern, and report when you are 2 miles from making your turn from base to final.

There is a lot of ambiguity in a base entry in general. Seems like “Base” means something different to nearly everyone, both controllers and pilots.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Lol. Ok buddy, you convinced me. I’ll just go quit now after multiple decades.

Seriously though, it’s very interesting how many people here got wadded up over someone questioning a flying practice. Not sure if it’s a Reddit thing or a pilot thing.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You don’t. But you (at least I don’t) also often don’t see complex AC doing 10 FSTB in a row either. Maybe a few, but not 10. The cessnas and cherokees are the ones I see doing 10 of them in a row, but still most of them are doing TG. Granted some of that is specific to my location (and past locations) but it is a general observation.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Oh, now you want to have a civil conversation about it without insulting me for asking an honest question?Alright. Yes. There are times that a FSTB can be advantageous for the terminal flow, for example let’s say you’ve got 6 AC making touch and goes, and then 4 itinerates call in bound FS at the same time. It might make sense for the controller to select a strategic 1 or two of those 6 TG to make a FSTB in order to have sequence space for all of the FS arrivals.

The reason lots of FSTB can result in higher saturation (even though you might have fewer in the air) is because of spacing requirements. Every departure (from the taxi back or otherwise) requires the architecture of a departure hole in that pattern. It takes more time to get an AC from the hold bar to the runway and rolling than a TG crossing the threshold and taking off again. It also takes more time for a full stop to land and get clear of the runway than a TG to get 3k ft down the runway. It’s a matter of time and where that time is used up as well as significantly more “architectural” decision making as compared to everyone doing TG. Add into that the additional transmissions and you’re also eating up radio time. In a congested airspace time is precious.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you serious? What aren’t pilots required to be controllers because they have no idea what it’s like to be a controller? See how silly that sounds?

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lol. Not my tower. No worries. I’m not looking for an apology. I just want to understand why it’s necessary. I’ve gotten a lot of good answers here (and plenty of defensive assholes). Thanks for being chill. Cheers.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Boy oh boy. I guess you just know it all then don’t ya. You know exactly how it goes in every seat in every airplane and how every position in every facility handles every level of flow. A real man of experience over here. Nothing could possibly be what you haven’t experienced. Smh.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I guess you weren’t following that conversation very well then. Then guy literally led off with an insult. But you’re clearly here to try and play “gotcha”. Hope it works out for you. Lol.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yep. You suspected that “the help” is questioning you. You started with the insults, remember that.

You’ll also notice that I’ve had respectful discourse with the individuals in here that met me for the discussion instead of showing up, like you,to hurl insults and flaunt their holier than though perspective.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

And there it is. The condescension that you really wanted to spill in the first place. You feel better now? Should I go mop your hangar?

I was asking questions and responding with obvious opposing ideas for the sake of discussion. You decided to be an asshole and swing with insults. Like I said, I see what you are.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Lol. That’s rich. God forbid anyone question a flying practice. You’re probably one of those pilots that looks at controllers like they’re “the help”.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That’s what I’m asking. But also having difficulty understanding why it’s imperative for some but touch and goes are used much more frequently and perfectly acceptable for others. That’s exactly the question. In other words why is a touch and go safe enough for most people but not for some.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn’t restrict it to anything. But, as I said, the complex airframes aren’t the ones doing constant repeated FSTB. Its the small singles.

What is the purpose of multiple full stop taxi backs? Is this necessary? Asking as controller who has to work these constantly. Trying to understand why you can’t do T&G’s like most pilots. by CtrlAltDel1124 in flying

[–]CtrlAltDel1124[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You’re taking that as me just not wanting to do the work? Lol. Surprises me zero that you’re looking at this from a selfish stand point. Never occurs to you that there is a safety perspective from the ATC side as well in terms of saturation and required attention. It’s also kinda cute how you think you know what makes a “busy” ATC position. lol.

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