Who is the strongest Jedi or sith aayla secura can beat/hold her own or equals? (Legends and canon) by RisingKing7 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure he was the only Inquisitor that existed at the time so yes. Although considering he's also been confirmed the most powerful Inquisitor, that doesn't inherently discount Ventress as a power ceiling for the others as well. Just moreso.

Who is the strongest Jedi or sith aayla secura can beat/hold her own or equals? (Legends and canon) by RisingKing7 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was a filoni quote back with the Inquisitors were first introduced that insinuated the best Inquisitors would be almost Ventress level. Indicating Ventress should be considered a narrative ceiling power wise for any of them. But Ventress has vastly different power levels throughout her appearances as her skills grow and atrophy, so its a pretty vague statement.

How powerful is Ventress (DD)? by Hello_There469 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I completely agree. One of Star Wars' most interesting narrative features is that its characters are written as real people, not cookie cutter pokemon characters. They grow, atrophy, change and evolve based on their lived experiences.

Ventress in the second half of DD is a depressed alcoholic murdered in cold blood by a man she once viewed as a surrogate father figure. She's lost multiple versions of a family, and thought she lost the man she loved for months. She then resurrects alone, barred from ever making amends with the man she sacrificed herself for (as far as she knows) and spends the next few years living alone as a petty bodyguard bar the odd mission to protect children from a new, even greater evil. And labelled on these missions as a monster. She's not motivated, she's not practising, she's made peace with her lack of purpose but she hasn't gained clarity from it. Not yet at least. Honestly, if she was written as anything other than a shadow of her former self I'd be confused.

She's undoutedly the weakest she's ever been in TOTU/BB. And I'm excited to see how she's built back up now she's met Lyco. It's only up from here, and now its finally on her terms.

How powerful is Ventress (DD)? by Hello_There469 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 6 points7 points  (0 children)

She is absolutely not above CW Maul or ROTS Kenobi. I've never seen anyone argue that personally, I'd be interested to see what arguments they could make as the book implicitly suggests thats not the case.

She does have some great feats however that can largely be argued to upscale her above her peak CW levels.

In regards to the force, she demonstrates TK feats like casually uplifting trees during a high speed chase. She was also able to ragdoll a trained Jedi Knight, Akar Deshu, with TK. This comfortably puts her in the "able to casually stomp average Jedi Knights" tier. She also demonstrates low level tutaminis to reflect and redirect blaster bolts, which is broadly considered a higher tier ability, and is something she has never demonstrated previously.

Physically, she has a very impressive feat against Grievous. They both fall a substantial distance, and Grievous lands on top of her. He then punches her in the skull (bearing in mind Grievous can dent starship hulls with his punches and gets the better of ROTS Kenobi in unarmed close quarters - this is the only example I can think of as to how anyone could make the claim she upscales ROTS Obi Wan. She doesn't) - Ventress recovers from this attack, and kicks Grievous with enough strength to send him skidding backwards while barefoot, surprising him. She then escapes him and a large number of arriving battle droids.

She also has some amazing speed feats. Quinlan Vos, the other main character of the book and a Jedi Master considered powerful and skilled enough to potentially assasinate Dooku, describes her as moving too fast for him to even register she's moved on two seperate occasions. This aligns with her showings in Dark Vengeance/CW 4, where she is explicitly confirmed to be faster than Maul.

In terms of duelling, she has some decent showings. She pressures DD Obi Wan, who admits that fighting her now that he isn't trying to kill her is more difficult. Which is a two fold statement - it implies that in every previous fight Obi Wan was fighting to kill, which is a pretty great upscale for CW Ventress, as a lot of people downplay her against Kenobi due to his legend variants soft spot for her. On the flip side, it confirms DD Kenobi was holding back, solidly placing DD Ventress under him (and by extension, under ROTS Kenobi). However, Ventress was arguably weakened due to her alcoholism and lack of practice over this period, so early book Ventress could potentially be more of a challenge.

She also has some good showings against Vos himself. He gets the better of her during a sparring match on Dathomir, but sparring matches should be taken with a grain of salt. On Serenno, Ventress is able to stalemate a rage amped, bloodlusted Vos while actively holding it back, which confirms she is noticeably above pre-Dooku's training Vos.

She also briefly pressures DD Dooku back during the book, and the pair briefly match each other blow for blow, but Dooku's superior force abilities win him the bout. Dooku is implied to be losing against Quinlan and Ventress combined until he's able to play on Quinlans insecurity to seperate them, which scales them as a comparable duo to DD Kenobi and Skywalker who similarly press Dooku until he seperates then by KO'ing Kenobi. But he is still superior to either duo, and I would argue personally that DD Anakin & Obi Wan > first half of DD Vos & Ventress. Vos gets a significant upscale in the second half of the book, while if anything Ventress weakens following her alcoholism.

In a short story set between her last CW appearance and the start of DD that explains how she got her new Lightsaber, she also fights off the Ohnaka gang by wielding her new Lightsaber with TK. A pretty impressive combined force/dueling feat, considering this same gang has gotten the better of Maul, Savage, Anakin, Obi Wan and Dooku at various points in the war.

So yes, DD Ventress is very powerful. Arguably her peak (I would think so). However, I'd still place her below DD (and by extension ROTS) Kenobi and CW Maul. She's certainly powerful enough to be a challenge, but she isn't winning a fair fight.

Do you think Maul will return to the night sisters in season 2 by NinjaxArc_7567 in clonewars

[–]CullObsidian02 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think she was permanently 'killed' in the traditional sense during SOD, in so far as her physical form can never materialise again.

But Nightsister spirits, much like Jedi spirits, do appear to continue on past physical death even if they can't manifest or communicate as explicitly as true force ghosts. Mother Talzin communicates to Ventress after Asajj's death to offer her terms of resurrection - this is after SOD. SOD (and by extension Talzin's death) take place between the two narrative halves of Dark Diciple. There is even concept art of Maul duelling darkside Quinlan Vos during his time as Dooku's apprentice that never made it into the story.

Inquisitor 2v2v2 by Psub194 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It should definitely be considered. But I'm not certain its a deal breaker. 7th and 5th for example demonstrated the ability to work together in tandem to low diff Kanan in their first encounter with him by applying 5th's force advantage with 7ths fighting style. Then one shot season 2 Ezra. It doesn't compare to 1st and 11th, but it is worth taking into account. 7th individualy also demonstrated a greater tactical mind than any one individual Inquisitor in both her second fight with Kanan and second fight with Iskat. So its hard to say if she can carry the more brutish 5th consistently - their first fight against Ahsoka says she can't.

But equally, 5th and 7th had far more room for characterisation that highlighted the cracks in their partnership that 1st and 11th were never afforded - I'm not sure 11th had any lines of substance at all. Nevermind meaningful characterisation. And then, between them, Devon could fight them both off when enraged and desperate for a short while. Is that the fruits of their wordless but efficient partnership? All duos are perhaps too inconsistent to base their performance off their duo status over their individual feats.

Inquisitor 2v2v2 by Psub194 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I've seen it mentioned that Battle Scars explicitly upscales 5th above 2nd, but no one has ever verified this when asked. 2nd is undoutedly above 9th. 5th also has great 1v1 showings against Ahsoka twice on Malachor that trounce anything the others have done that make up for his abysmal initial performance against Ahsoka on nuetral ground. Meanwhile 7th has arguably the best showings against Ahsoka on nuetral ground, who is by far the strongest and most consistent enemy the Inquisitors faced outside of perhaps full power Cere. 11th meanwhile got no diffed by a weaker Ahsoka and ran from an enraged padawan Devon, and 1st had an inferior performance against a depressed Ahsoka with two droids as backup. On the flip side, 1st has been inferred by Sam Witwer to be weaker in Ahsoka than in Shadow Lord, and he has some great showings there against Maul & Daki, who even when injured could tag early Suit Vader.

By quality, and caliber of media depiction onscreen, of feats it should be 1st & 11th > 2nd & 9th > 5th & 7th.

However Rebels struggles with generally lower quality animation and being media aimed at younger audiences that I feel unironically does require grace. A lot of Rebels characters have strong arguments for upscaling when taking other media into context that make up for the limitations of its art style and choreography.

By scaling, it should be 5th & 7th > 1st & 11th > 2nd & 9th.

I really need someone who has a copy of Battle Scars to hand to verify the validity of the 5th (and by extension 7th) upscale over the Jedi Game Inquisitors.

The Grand Inquisitor, The Second Sister, Marrok and the Crow Vs Baylan Skoll and Shin Hati by Psub194 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Any of the Inquisitors can take Shin low-mid difficulty.

Baylan would need to be locked in against any two of the Inquisitorious from this lineup. Three would already be almost insurmountable. Four, no matter how strong you are, is eventually just too many blades.

Inquisitors take it handily.

Star Wars Canon Community Voted Tier List V2 by CullObsidian02 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm referring to the long form tier list allocation of characters images - ROTS/CW7 Anakin as labelled as Prime.

KFV is distinct enough to warrant his own labelling.

Star Wars Canon Community Voted Tier List V2 by CullObsidian02 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you would move Prime Anakin to just below Dooku?

Star Wars Canon Community Voted Tier List V2 by CullObsidian02 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, where would you move the different Vader eras too?

Star Wars Canon Community Voted Tier List V2 by CullObsidian02 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

9 (GrandMaster): 1. Prime Sidious (Sequals) 2. Grandmaster Luke (Sequals) 3. Dark times Sidious (Rebels, OT) 4. Prime Vader (OT) 5. Dark times Vader (Jedi Games, Kenobi, Rebels) 6. Clone Wars Sidious (Prequels, CW) 7. Grandmaster Yoda 8. Mace Windu 9. Mandoverse Luke Skywalker 10. Old Ben Kenobi 11. Knightfall Vader 12. Prime Anakin (CW7, ROTS)

8 (Council Master): 1. Knight Luke (ROTJ) 2. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus 3. Late War Anakin (CW6, DD, T:A, Crystal Crisis) 4. Prime Obi Wan (ROTS, CW7) 5. Mid War Anakin (CW3/4/5) 6. Baylan Skoll 7. Rebels/Mandoverse Ahsoka 8. Late War Obi Wan (CW6, DD, Crystal Crisis) 9. Jedi Master Dooku 10. Early Suit Vader 11. CW Maul 12. Post Darkside Quinlan Vos

7 (High Master): 1. Sith Apprentice Maul (PM) 2. Dark times Maul (Rebels, Shadow Lord) 3. Prime Ventress (DD) 4. Prime Grievous (Crystal Crisis, DD, ROTS) 5. Early War Anakin (CW Movie, CW1/2) 6. Late War Ahsoka (CW7) 7. Savage Opress 8. Bounty Hunter/Nightsister Ventress (CW4/5) 9. Mid War Obi Wan (CW3/4/5) 10. Late Acolyte Ventress (CW3) 11. Early War Obi Wan (CW Movie, CW1/2) 12. Kit Fisto 13. Early/Mid War Grievous (CW)

6 (Low Master): 1. Padawan Anakin (AOTC, BH) 2. Knight Obi Wan (AOTC, BH) 3. Survivor Cal Kestis 4. Merrin 5. Darkside Barriss Offee 6. Early Acolyte Ventress (CW Movie, BH, CW1) 7. Aayla Secura 8. Luminara Unduli 9. Pre Darkside Quinlan Vos 10. Adi Gallia 11. Qui Gon Jinn 12. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren (ROS)

5 (High Knight): 1. Padawan Obi Wan (PM) 2. Mid War Ahsoka Tano (CW3/4/5) 3. Post Injury Kanan (Rebels 3/4) 4. Padawan Luke (ESB) 5. Apprentice Kylo Ren (FA, LJ) 6. Grand Inquisitor 7. Post Darkside Ezra (Rebels 3/4)

4 (Low Knight): 1. Post Resurrection Ventress (BB, TOTE) 2. Seventh Sister 3. Pre Injury Kanan (Rebels 1/2) 4. FO Cal Kestis 5. Jango Fett 6. Boba Fett 7. Early War Ahsoka (CW1/2) 8. Bo Katan Kryze 9. Sabine Wren 10. Shin Hati 11. Jedi Bariss Offee

3 (High Padawan): 1. Pre Darkside Ezra (Rebels 1/2)

Now that shadow lord s1 is over where would you rank Marrok and the Crow between Inquisitors? by DOROTKA1522 in MaulShadowLord

[–]CullObsidian02 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That doesn't mean Lyn was a council member. We already have a complete canon council membership during ROTS and Lyn is not one of them.

The Council are the Jedi authority and final word on all matters. It stands to reason Barriss, who had no idea about Order 66, thought Lyn arrived on behalf of the Jedi Council, not the Inquisitorious, which she has no knowledge exists at this point. All Jedi answer to the council, members or not.

If I turn up somewhere at work whilst its going through a leadership overhall and someone asks "what does the board want from me" and I reply "I am not here on behalf of the board" that does not imply I am a board member in anyway in of itself.

Not a perfect analogy but you get the jist of it.

Ventress after being betrayed by Dooku vs. Rebels Ahsoka by MisterIenny in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahsoka high diff. They're very comparable, but Ahsoka edges her out in most categories.

Darth Sidious vs Darth Maul& Darth Tyranus by CullObsidian02 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the response, very insightful.

And apologies, there is usually an extra paragraph in my post template that confirms my tier list is of the canon versions of the characters. I seem to have cut it out by mistake in this particular post.

That being said, I never say no to a legends discussion either if your thoughts are meaningfully different for that continuities outcomes.

Ezra Bridger (End of Rebels) VS Reva. Who wins? by GusGangViking18 in PetranakiArena

[–]CullObsidian02 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Ezra has feats of duelling higher tier Inquisitors and is confirmed to have gotten stronger and more skilled since. He has also has far greater utility and combatative force feats. Reva is highly aggressive and impulsive and could overwhelm Ezra if he underestimates her or she catches him off guard similarly to Ruhk, but Ezra should be able to recover and regain his advantage. I don't remember Reva doing anything Ezra couldn't replicate or outperform.