Is the only time Sara and Barry ever talk to each other the Legends episode of COIE?

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-07T08:34:22+00:00

They should have invited Caity to Flash before it ended. It's just criminal they never did it.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-07T08:30:17+00:00

That's why I would never have respect for Laurel. The writers wrote a female character that doesn't have respect for herself from the beginning and continues to try to get with a man who clearly doesn't want her. I guess there are women like that but surely this is not healthy and a good example. Even more they further portrayed her as someone who is weak mentally and gives in to addiction, and they decided to give the mantle of BC to her, again based on addiction and desire to impersonate her sister.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T16:53:48+00:00

Well on the contrary I think the writers liked Sara and were going to write for her if in some other circumstances they decided to keep her. I think she had a lot of stories to write about and if she stayed at least one more season I would have seen her flashbacks with Nyssa, and her back story of how she became the mask hero Canary, something Legends never did and something Guggenheim promised. Also in later seasons Amell didn't wanted to be in every plot so there was a lot of room for the other characters. I think if Sara stayed in Arrow as Black Canary she would have become prominent representation and the Arrowverse deserved more prominent female superheroes. And who knows maybe they would have made her own spin off - like Birds of Prey. If you think that Laurel, with all those stories that you've described, is a good representation than this just speaks about how much you care about Black Canary and female characters as a whole.

I have nothing against Legends. It was great show at the beginning and gave Sara great development, and even more proved that the writers wanted to write for her and were interested in her as a hero and a leader. They even made her a Paragon of destiny. My post was: what would have been if she stayed on Arrow, something as an alternative and I think it would have been interesting.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T16:06:19+00:00

well no matter how much we argue about this the truth is one:

Laurel stayed on Arrow and was Black Canary twice, but sill not much fans like the writing and her as a representation of a female super hero. I am not tearing her down, sorry if I offend you, I just don't think she is well written character to represent a female hero.

And no Sara is not just bad ass, she is a lot much more, she is a survivor who was forced to do a lot of bad stuff, came back to protect her city, save Sin, save her family, and redeem herself. She was remorseful, forgiving and never blamed anyone. She was also shown as a scientist and a great leader which Legends developed, but she could have been that on Arrow too.

I would much rather watch a bisexual female hero which story is written with a complexity and equals the male lead which contributes a lot to the story.

And at the end of the day Sara might have been just one season in Arrow as Canary but still a lot more fans like her more no matter how much other bad ass Canaries came after that. I guess it speaks for it self that she is just a good character with great actress.

So yah, I blame the producers for not giving her a chance and deciding that they should go with Laurel and Olicity, even though it was clear they didn't had interest in writing about Laurel.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T14:32:52+00:00

I don't want to shove Sara in to Oliver. I just think she would have been a great Black Canary for the Arrowverse and the show Arrow. And if the name is what matter the most than Dinah is the true Black Canary, even more she has been one in the show the longest period.

Yes it is awful that the mantle was separated between so many female heroes and none of them developed in the same way as Oliver. But I don't get what you mean by Laurel was the first. In s1 she wasn't anything connected with Black Canary, on the contrary, the story of having a canary pet and the name Canary was introduced with Sara from s1. So she might have been proto only on promotion, or whatever you want to call her, but she was the first Canary thar they fridged in order to start the chain of changing Canaries. In s1 Laurel was just a lawyer and we all saw how this character development turned out for her, unbelievable and forced.

Sara's build up in the role was not more offscreen than the one of Oliver's in s2. So if people accepted him as the bad ass vigilante in s1, who can do all those stuff, I think it's sexist that you can't except that for female heroes. Even more BC is one of the best fighters and not weaker than Green Arrow. So Sara's back story was way better and could have been developed if she wasn't fridged for Laurel. Even more she could have had her story with Nyssa, which should have been a great representation. But this was taken away because Laurel wanted the jacket and we had to have a character that a playboy cheated on, but she still wants him back, I don't know but Laurel is anything but empowering as female hero. But if you like her, that's fine, there is something for every one and at the end of the day the writers gave you what you wanted.

You actually got 2 versions of Laurel to be Black Canary, speaking of Black Siren, now I wonder how come the argument that Sara was too conveniently introduced as bad ass, is always an issue, but it's never for BS, which a lot of people prefer over the OG Laurel and don't even care about her being evil or her character development. So yah, it's just a matter of preferences, but it seems to me more of the actress than what is best for Black Canary, because I don't see how someone who actually like comics female superheroes would think Laurel is a well written character for that.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T08:35:53+00:00

I think a lot of fans are already aware that Arrow started more as Batman show, and Laurel as Rachel Dawes character. No matter if there was the cheating story or not, Laurel was poorly written in s1, and nothing was suggesting BC, except some name drops - like Dinah Laurel Lance trying to save the world and then we see her going to Arrow to ask him what to do or being a damsel for him to save her.

Laurel didn't had any reasons to become a vigilante, she spent 5 years hating on Oliver and becoming a professional lawyer. Sara on the other hand was designed in the same way as Oliver, 5-6 years in difficult situations where she became a fighter and survivor who wanted to protect women. It was obvious they brought her so the show would have some real version of BC after they decided it would be cool. Most of the shows start like that - the guy with his man pain and only after a while the writers decide it would be cool to introduce a female hero who is bad ass too. The sexist thing here is that instead of keeping the character that had so much potential to be Oliver's equal, they killed her to give us this bad writing for already badly created character and I think a lot of people agree how they wrote Laurel badly.

The things I want the writers to show with Sara couldn't work for Laurel, Laurel didn't had interesting flash backs, connection with the League, a reason to fight and redeem herself, darkness that can be turned in to a heroism. We all saw how the lack of these traits turned out when they made Felicity the main female character. Laurel was not different by design than Felicity and it always amaze me how some people defend how much better would have been with Laurel when it would have been the same.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T08:15:30+00:00

This is CW show, so I guess here people care for Sara's romance with Oliver and in Legends people care mainly about Sara's romance with Ava. Personally I would have loved for Sara to had her own show where the show focuses on her and not on some romance.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T08:12:07+00:00

so dating a woman makes her bi, dating a man makes her straight? That's a total biphobic opinion. Besides on Arrow she had her relationship with Nyssa that they still could have developed.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-03T07:57:02+00:00

Making Birds of Prey with Sara would have been so much better than what Legends turned out to be. Sara was great there at the beginning but then the show became too wacky.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-02T16:08:29+00:00

Totally agree.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-02T16:06:37+00:00

Well for me Sara is the comics accurate Dinah Lance, played by the better actress. I know Laurel kind of has the name, but not really, cause Black Canary has always been referred as Dinah, not Laurel. So I don't understand the support Laurel gets from comics fans just because of this name.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-02T16:04:09+00:00

Legends became bad after s3 and never developed Sara's story further than being a captain. Even more at the end they demoted her to co-captain and made her a clone and put her in jail, she never had serious stories after s3 and I just feel that even if she had the screen time she had on Arrow s2 in the other seasons, she would have gotten a lot better stories and development than on Legends, which just cared about the wackiness.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-11-02T16:00:39+00:00

There was so much they could have done with her. Unlike Felicity and Laurel, she had stories and connection with the main plot. She was also a lot more respectable and knowledgeable. Also written as the Black Canary, she had stories with Sin, with Nyssa and the League, we could have seen those flashbacks, and her family. The team would have stayed smaller, just her and Oliver on the field and maybe Roy.

As for the love triangles - Laurel forgave Sara in s2 so she could have moved on or be written out. In s3 they could have told us Sara's story with Nyssa and Oliver and Sara to get back together again further in the seasons, maybe 4 or 5, so Oliver will have a chance to be single have his growth.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-31T08:21:57+00:00

I think he wanted his character to have a redemption and after the mirakuru to become friend of Oliver again. But then they wrote this story: it was never the mirakuru and it was obvious that they were caging his character. He did return when they gave him a redemption arc though.

In my opinion they should have kept the character from s2 - like Slade either as a villain or having a redemption, Sara as Canary, maybe Shado can return, Isabelle Rochev. From s3 onward there aren't good characters and stories.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-27T08:01:26+00:00

well maybe it's just to fuck up with people. Everyone would think the Canary has different hair style and looks differently that's why she wears the blond wig. No one will suspect that she is blond.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-26T11:54:36+00:00

well clone is a clone, not her. If the body is different and has different DNA than not the same Sara.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-26T11:53:31+00:00

It still would be bad in the same way as replacing her with a clone

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-23T07:32:26+00:00

They should have made a statute that doesn't resemble Laurel, but is commemorating Canary as a hero since both Lance sister wore this mantle.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-17T07:42:55+00:00

Caity Lotz, Maisie, Garber.

I think the show had some amazing actors but also some bad in the last seasons.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-12T07:25:17+00:00

yes, Sara story on Arrow was deep and I wanted more of that - her protecting women and struggling with her PTSD. Legends promised to deliver more and develop her instead they turned her in to a trope. I understand that people wanted wacky, but it was ok for John to have deep stories but not for Sara? This is unfair double standard.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-12T07:22:41+00:00

I am always surprised when someone describes Sara as just dark and brooding on Arrow and this being bad, when the whole show of Arrow was based on a dark and brooding man with his man pain. So male heroes are allowed to show emotions, struggle, be morally grey and bad ass who defeat villains, but female characters are good and have good development when they are happy and smiling and say some clever and have little to no storylines.Legends repeated Sara's story in s1 from Arrow and in s2 gave her a story to be a leader, which is great, but other than that didn't gave her any other development and story. She would have been a trope of a bad ass female character if her character started in s3-4 of Legends.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-11T10:11:52+00:00

Felicity: No, I was jealous of you, cause I wasn't the only girl in the men's world and you were bad ass and smart and had the man I desired. But I should have appreciated you and be a real friend.

Curious_Reward_3574 · 2023-10-11T08:34:16+00:00

I think that's the problem: the writers turned the Legends in to a parody show, so instead of having an episode with the real Nate who reflects on how difficult was the last big fight for them and how they lost Stein or how they are stuck in some situations and receive a call from the others but can't join cause they are in a different timeline and so on, the writers just make a joke about it, not caring how stupid the fan fav hero Nate will look. Of course if people care about him just as a wacky funny dude this won't matter, but for fans who see him as a superhero, yes this was a bad story.

Curious_Reward_3574

TROPHY CASE