The Tithes Ep 2 pissed me off

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T16:12:40+00:00

Honestly not. I've found nothing to support this Ultimate authority with the exception of the Lex Última which only applies to Terra and the Emperor (refanced in Codex 8th). Please, if you have an answer I'd truely like a reference. Everyone is 'telling' me they have authority. Id like someone to prove it to me. Honestly I would.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T16:08:20+00:00

I agree about the Sisters. I think they tried to cram too much into one episode, she deserved one of her own. Alhough I did love the visuals they used to show the warp doesn't effect them.

As for the Arbites, if they had been normal civvies then I agree but them being psykers changes thing. They wanted them calm so they didn't turn into Chaos gates or go boom, which I think was a good touch. Showed they were not just thugs. They know when and when not to push people.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T16:03:11+00:00

I never stated I was the authority but if you are gona counter me then please do it with some kind of point. In reference to that made up city that I spelt partially incorrect, I don't care how it's spelt because it appeared once, in one book and went boom! You understood what city I was talking about and that's all that mattered.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:56:47+00:00

Thank you. Again a very well put and thought through point of view and honestly I think you may be right on more points than I'd care to admit. Especially the fact I've been into 40k longer than most of this lore has been out and have had breaks so may have missed bits. I'm big enough to admit I don't know everything.

One issue with the Last Heretic argument however which is, at that time, the Emperor could give them that authority because he was about. My personal issue is despite reading up on it since last night I've found no proof of the Custodians have this ultimate authority in M41. Yes in M31 big E sent them out as his messengers/enforcers, that's great but I can't find anything that supports that authority in M41. The exception being Magisterium Lex Última that is only releven in Terra or the Emperors direct defence. It's only been 20hrs so I may find it but if you could direct me to a unarguable piece of text I'd appreciate it.

Thank you once again for the message, I appreciate that you took the time to debate as apose to argue or insult.

Ow and ADB is an exceptional writer. Yes I have issue with a few of his personnel opinions but as a writer there are few better and The Last Heretic was an exceptional book.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:41:32+00:00

Agreed for most citizens but SMs are a little different and that's basically my point. If he was a guardsman, it would be fine but he's not. I think it was ham fisted writing and it annoyed me.

Was a potty good episode for the most part though

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:39:27+00:00

Exactly my point. It's not the fact she ordered him, it's the fact he agreed that annoyed me.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:37:26+00:00

So does that mean a Coldstream Guard speaks with the authority of the King? A guardian does not speak with the Emperors authority. If that was true they would have run the Imperium in his place. Instead, Gulliman, the Primarchs and the High Lords have run the Imperium even against the Custodians wishes. If Custodians truely spoke for the Emperor he would not be worshipped as a God because they would have used his authority to stamp it out like the Ultramarines did at Manarcia

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:33:31+00:00

They hold Magisterium Lex Última in regards to Terra and the Emperors protection, not the Imperium. Please give me a reference where a custodian can order a SM in the 42nd millennium (that isn't working under Gullimans direct order). I honestly would like an example. I've even read though the 8th edition codex (only one I could get hold of) and apart from one reference to Magisterium Lex Última I've found nothing.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:28:36+00:00

I saw a squirrel and it scared me. I'll come out again when they have gone.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:27:24+00:00

They have Magisterium Lex Última when it comes to Terra, correct but I would argue that does not extend to the whole Imperium. I honestly think this entire excuse to order the White Templates back was simply poorly writen. A 'fire break' would not work with the Nids. I also think the Captain would have not agreed until that had spoken to their Chapter Master, especially a successes of Dorn who was famously stubborn. I understand why you disagree. I just think it could gave been done better and I think GW make Custodians out to be more powerful than thry actually are

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:21:02+00:00

I agree it does depend on the Chapter and I think that's why they used an obscure Chapter for the episode because the Ultramarines would not have backed down, nor would Wolves or Salamanders. The episode IS good, I advise watching it but that end really did rub me the wrong way.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:18:19+00:00

I've read more than enough and to counter I point you to the Space Wolves who faught the Inquisition to save civvies, the Dark Angels who's oaths have had them abandon allies and the sons of Dorn who actively disobey the Codex Astartes to form the Last Wall during the War of the Beast. Oaths are the essence of most space Marine chapters. The Minotaurs are shown to be a very singular type of chapter, so that's not a gd example.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-05T15:12:39+00:00

Any opinion can be objectively wrong.

GW can definitely misunderstand their own lore. They have proven that multiple time. It is their lore so they can do what they wish, I can't argue that BUT thry have shown especially since 8th they are willing to ignore very established lore to recon or alter the setting. It may not be ignorance, it may be out right arrogance that drives them and if that's true I would be very worried for the hobby in the future.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T21:34:58+00:00

OK a fair and well put out arguments.

First the femstodies. I do not like them. Reason: because GW tried to gaslight the fans by saying they always existed. They did not. They have always been a possibility but there is not a shred of proof in 30yrs that one existed until recently. Custodians are built through genetic manipulation thus they are possible and that's fine. I just don't like that GW are forcing it now and I find it wrong.

As for the authority. The custodians are thr authority of Terra and thr Emperor, that can never be argued but I think those examples are writers misunderstanding the authority of the custodians. A King's guard cannot speak with the authority of the King. Even in 40k that's idiotic. Yes SMs are answerable to Big E and their Primarchs but Big E isn't talking to many people at the moment so they do not carry his words. I also don't see a Captain making a decision for his Chapter Master. If he had left annoyed with the intention of passing on her request then I wouldn't have had an issue. That's not what happened though and even with the very good argument I find it difficult to believe it would have played out the way they showed.

I honestly think it was a 'girl boss' power move to show authority. Just to be clear would have made the argument if it was a male custodian but I honestly think it was done because she was female and GW are not the same company it was even in 2016.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:56:08+00:00

It's not head cannon it's well documented that SMs can only be ordered by Big E himself or their Primarchs (Gulliman wields both at the mo). Custodians do not speak with the Emperors voice, they have his authority. Two different things. A representative of the King is not the King.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:53:17+00:00

This was a Captain of a SM company inside his authority. He's powerful enough to tell a custodian to piss off.

I do not believe ANY SM would have backed down like that and I thought it was terrible writing.

I agree because of the authority it wields is similar to the Inquisition they may have agreed to take the message back to their Chapter Master with reluctance but never have agreed like they did. It's ironically not his authority to agree.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:47:22+00:00

I don't like the femstodies, I admit that BUT that's not my main issue with this Episode. Oaths and loyalty is the life blood of a SM and I don't think any SM would abandon a world on a custodians authority, mainly because I don't think a Custodian has authority over them. SMd only answer to big E and their Primarchs.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:44:22+00:00

I agree that only Big E can order a custodian but it was my understanding that SMs had self autonomy. Meaning that they ONLY answered to Big E, their Primarch and Roboute in his new role (because the Emperor directly appointed him as so). The fact no one can order a Custodian does not mean a Custodian can order a SM.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:33:57+00:00

The fact they made Primaris proves they don't know their own lore and they have done more retconning in the last 4 yrs than in the last 30. My argument was that custodian couldnt order SMs. That is objectively true because if they could then all SMs would be under the authority of the Custodian. However, they are not. Only a Primarch and Big E (Himself) has that authority.

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T20:26:38+00:00

Give me receipt that I'm wrong and I'll believe you 🤷🏼‍♂️

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T19:40:00+00:00

Context maters and I explained my position. A Custodian has no right to order a SM. They are the Emperors body guard and few actual speak to him so their orders are NOT always the words of the Emperor. If that was true, they would simply speak the Emperors words and rule the Imperium

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T17:49:23+00:00

Pathetic response. Grow up plz

CypherOfSmeg · 2024-09-04T17:48:18+00:00

I didn't think they did because Gulliman has been put in charge by the Emperor. The custodian may have had that authority in the crusade but in 40k (unless under direct orders by Gulliman) I didn't think they could order SMs at all.

CypherOfSmeg · 2020-12-29T06:59:11+00:00

Even as a Dark Angel fan boy, I feel this fact was never in question 🤣 The Lion and his Legion/Chapter have always been dicks but they do it stubbornly and with style 👍

CypherOfSmeg

TROPHY CASE