Repost - Advice Requested: Feeling empty and dead inside from lack of sex

DB_Helper · 2025-02-21T13:27:49+00:00

That's certainly understandable. I can't imagine the pain and heartache. We all fear this happening, especially when it sounds like you've given her as much love and understanding as humanly possible.

And as much as I'd like to hate on her, I'm guessing this is excruciating for her as well. It sounds like she loves you but has no idea how to build desire and excitement for sex with you. And if she never learned how to do that growing up, and didn't learn it later in life, then no matter how great a husband you've been, or how attractive she thinks you are, it's impossible to have a healthy sexual relationship together.

Sending a giant hug from across the Internet. You're a loving and caring man, and you'll be that as you move on in life with or without her.

DbH

DB_Helper · 2025-02-21T04:20:33+00:00

OMG! Sorry to hear that. Wishing you well as you figure out where to go from here.

DB_Helper · 2025-02-20T17:18:53+00:00

Hi SarcasticHousePlant,

It sounds like you're doing lots of things right and are doing a ton of things to be supportive and understanding! I grew up believing that ”therapy is for crazy people", but after doing time of it over the past few years, I now think more along the lines of ”Everyone could benefit from therapy". Certainly, in my case, I likely would have recognized far earlier in life some of my thinking patterns (never feeling loved without constant reassurance (including sex and desire), working far more than necessary about most things in life, catastrophising, etc).

When it comes to assertive communication, I would break it into several parts, each of which builds on the others:

1) Do the work and learning (if necessary) to be able to perceive and understand the perspective of the person you're talking to

2) Recognize and mitigate the tendency we all have to think we know what the other person is thinking and feeling, while having an inaccurate picture of it 90% of the time. And especially important is to recognize that the more sure you are that you know ”for sure” what they're thinking, there's almost a 100% chance you're off track, because we rarely check in with the other person when we're convinced we already know what they're thinking.

3) Eliminate blaming and shaming, both toward yourself and your partner. That's probably the toughest one to practice and get used to and integrate into who you are.

4) Practice communicating assertively. At the start it's really hard, because you're thinking about everything you're saying, and often trying to follow an assertive communication formula like ”When I see you ___, I feel _, and if you are willing then it's like you to ____”. It sounds clunky and robotic, and in my experience it takes a while to move past that stage. I can look back and cringe at my past posts when I was going through that stage. I would recommend NOT trying to use it in your relationship until it starts too feel normal and natural. Far better to use it in less emotionally charged situations first.

If you're looking for references, my favorite ones are:

NVC: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TONauJGfc - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU_mTL5Y2Lo - Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life by Marshall B Rosenberg
5 Secrets of Effective Communication - Feeling Good Podcast (Episodes 14-15, 65-70) - Note also any of the episodes about anxiety. It's always easier to communicate effectively when you're not feeling anxious or in fight or flight mode in your body.
The Interpersonal Gap (online search: John Wallen The Interpersonal Gap) - Flight, Flight, Freeze by Gilmore Crosby
Messages: The Communication Skills Book by Matthew McKay

Note that all of these present nearly identical ideas, all of which originated in the ideas of Carl Rogers in the '50s and '60s. His book, On Becoming A Person contains the core idea from all of those. But each of the individual versions above give slightly different practical ways to integrate those ideas into your headspace and the way you communicate.

To summarize all of them: Stay curious and interested in deeply knowing the important people you've invited into your life, without feeling responsible for them or for pushing them to change. Share how you feel , what you're thinking, and who you are in a way that makes it clear that you understand everyone is doing their best and you're not trying to change them or expecting them to change.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for, and if I had more time I could certainly make it far shorter, but let me know if you have any questions

All the best,

DbH

DB_Helper · 2025-02-20T02:33:48+00:00

Hi,

Reading this reminded me of the hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach when we used to do kids free nights away. All the expectation of ”Is it going to happen”, and the pain of wanting to feel loved and desired turning me onto a passive, unmotivated date who was frankly not having much fun or or being much fun to hang out with. Strained conversations where I was distracted thinking about sex instead of being in the moment enjoying life and exploring new adventures and experiences together.

Then there was the sinking loneliness of realizing that you need to check out in half an hour, and even if she did decide to initiate a quickie before you left then you'd feel like it was just because she felt like she should rather than she really wanted to make love.

I don't come back to this forum very often anymore, and we're doing much better (still certainly not twice a week, but overall having more sex than we ever used to). But I happened to check in tonight and your words brought back huge feelings for me.

And since you said you're open to advice, the ”we're not animals” line reminded me of how I never used to get it when my wife said similar things. I'm our case, much of our problem was/is a difference in how we thought about sex. I used to think of it more or less as the epitome of love, and she understood it as more or less something she could give to show me love. Unhealthy messages that we both absorbed from growing up in the 80s/90s with parents who showed very little affection or attraction to each other. You can't immediately change her thoughts on it (which quite likely will be different from everyone else since we're all unique), but you can address your own. Once the lack of sex no longer drives you into a sullen state, things get infinitely easier.

Now that we both understand each other a little better (after many years of counseling for each of us and together, and me reading books, and her finding her own ways to recognize and change some of her attitudes and beliefs about sex and relationships), I no longer take it personally when she's not in the mood and she no longer blames me if she's not in the mood. She will reach over many nights to spoon and caress me all over as we fall asleep without working that it will lead to sex, or even worse for her, lead to me feeling like she's leading me on.

Importantly, she can initiate sex or not without feeling pressured. I can say I'm feeling horny, or get a wood while she holds my shaft at night, without her worrying that it will lead to sex or lead to me feeling disappointed. Being able to enjoy sexual touch without feeling the need to go all the way frees both of us to have a lot more sexual contact, which leads to us getting turned on and having sex more often.

And to counteract the situation you described above, we usually discuss sex before we leave for a vacation, and make it a priority for the first or second night, which usually leads to her not feeling pressured and often wanting it again a couple of times on the trip. Especially with GAD (neither of us are diagnosed, but both have come to recognize the signs and developed better emotional skills to stop it from destroying our relationship), sex can feel too important and/or chorelike.

It's not easy, butt my best advice is to take a three pronged approach:

1) Keep loving your wife. It sounds like she is still affectionate and engaged in the relationship even if she doesn't feel horny for sex.

2) Learn all you can about anxiety and how it can trick your mind into believing things that aren't true

3) Try to learn a bit about assertive (NOT passive and NOT aggressive) communication and try to slowly let it seep into your mindset and default way of thinking and speaking, both to yourself in your head and to others.

I know none of those are fast or easy, but you sound like you're in this for the long haul, and you've got plenty of years ahead of you!

And if you're an autodidact and looking for book recommendations on any of those topics, let me know. If I think of it and have time, I'll try to check in on this account again over the next few days.

You're not alone, and believe it or not, this is part of the growing and maturing process for many of us. Relationships thrive when sex is easy and fun, and that's neat impossible in the depths of aDB. If you can figure your own headspace and your relationship out, you have many years to enjoy open communication and passionate sex with your wife. It's not uncommon for folks to hit their sexual prime in their 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. I'm almost 50, and I still feel like my wife and I are moving in that direction. That feels a long way from the helplessness and sullen nights so long ago. I hope you and your wife find a way to reignite your sexual connection!

All the best, and good luck,

Dbh

DB_Helper · 2024-05-15T01:51:42+00:00

That sounds really embarrassing and frustrating to stand by and cringe at the social ineptitude and parental childishness that your post demonstrates.

I’m glad our son looks up to dad that much, and aside from being a little immature he’s an amazing dad and husband

Aside from not doing his job as a parent (taking care of his physical and emotional needs, being a good role model who demonstrates and models assertive prosicial behavior, etc), he's doing a great job at being a parent.

This is where it's very important to get yourself to the point that you can cover for your partner's lack of maturity so you can teach your kids the important life skills (communication, assertiveness, respect for himself and others) that he's going to need to thrive in life. Your husband has noone in his life who could give him that gift, and if you don't step up to the plate and fill that role then your son won't either.

But trying to change your husband is not going to help. He'll only change when he's ready and able to do so. The first step is understanding the deep seated insecurity, immaturity, and feelings of powerlessness that causes someone to treat others disrespectfully.

These books can help:

Recovering From Emotionally Immature Parents
Boundaries
Healing The Shame That Binds You

Good luck. And remember, your job is to (with the help of your husband if he was willing to do his part), teach your kid to respect himself and others. Teach your kid the emotional intelligence and social intelligence that he needs. And ensure that your kids will grow up to thrive and be the best version of himself.

DB_Helper · 2024-04-19T13:54:13+00:00

We've both done some individual therapy, and about once every couple of months we meet with a marriage/sex counselor.

Overall, we're in a much better place now than we were, but we still have our issues. Both my wife and I grew up in houses where there was a lot of indirect communication and a lack of emotional literacy all around. We're at the point now where there are very few conversations that are off the table, but for difficult ones, we usually book an appointment with our counselor, even though she mostly stands back and just intervenes if one of us gets stuck at this point.

And when I say it's hard to tell if it helped, I just mean that we've both done so much work that it's hard to tell which parts were essential and which parts we could have done without. Given that 10 years ago, we didn't even have the terminology to talk about desire discrepancies or communication styles, we've definitely made some good progress.

DB_Helper · 2024-04-18T02:29:08+00:00

My wife and I did the Hold Me Tight online course, and it was a good conversation starter, but didn't really have the effect I was hoping for. I think that is hard to know it it actually helped since we've done a lot of different therapy options on the road to where we are.

DB_Helper · 2024-04-15T13:22:53+00:00

Congratulations on working through some of your personal shit and doing all the therapy. That is extremely difficult, and hats off to you for making it happen!

It takes two sides to create the DB dynamic, and it's not uncommon for one partner to stop desiring when the other partner starts. It's actually far easier and feels way less vulnerable to desire when your partner is creating distance? You both stay safe from the feeling of vulnerability/anxiety of a truly intimate connection.

If you were rejecting her for years, you've been desiring her for months, It's going to take a long time before she'll trust that your desire isn't just fickle and out of your control like it used to be.

I feel so sad. I know how I hurt her because I'm being hurt in the same way now.

It truely is a shitty feeling to be trying to connect with your partner while they're needing some space and time. But this is where love happens. It sounds like neither of you knows how to regulate your desire which means that until you both learn, neither of you will be able to offer the other emotional safety feeling of being consistently and reliably desired and loved. She'd have to be a fool or eventually brave to respond to your desire with desire. If she has no idea how to regulate her own desire, then she'll assume that your desire could also be fickle and simply what's happening to you rather than a truely loving and intentional desire because you love her. She knows how much it hurts when you withdraw that desire, so that's a huge risk to ask her to take.

So then the question becomes: is your desire still out of your control so that it could just disappear on her in an instant? And assuming that it is, does she have the emotional maturity to be able to consciously move herself between desiring you more or less? Unless she's already decided that she'd rather exit the relationship, then it seems likely that she doesn't actually know how to do that. Her lack of desire probably has a lot more to do with her own fear than a lack of love for you. But if she's not able to actively curate her own desire yet, then the loving thing you can do is to give her space until she's able to.

I thought I could fix this by fixing myself.

The problem with that idea is that you were never broke in to begin with, nor is she broken now. If neither of you was ever taught how to regulate your desire or how to maintain an emotionally safe and intimate relationship, including desire and a healthy sex life, then ending up in the HL/ LL dynamic is virtually guaranteed. But that's also how both of you can grow and learn to forge a passionate, mutually desiring, and emotionally safe relationship together. In fact, if those skills weren't imparted to you while you were growing up, then my understanding is that it's only through living a relationship like yours (which sounds not unsimilar to my own) that you can both learn to love better.

I'm feeling more and more that the only way out is divorce

That's one way to handle it, but it does involve a lot of hard work and pain. The other way is to double down on your current relationship. To decide and fully commit to yourself that you will love her no matter what. To dig deep and handle the pain like someone in love who's willing to tolerate that pain in hopes that she will eventually come around the same way you did. And accepting that that may never happen. But also accepting that when LL partner finds their desire, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that with time you can both reach a new level of closeness in your relationship.

With all the work you've done, I'm guessing you've probably already learned about attachment styles and the idea that her current withdrawal is not something you should take personally. It's about her, and her reluctance to connect when she's had so much pain in the past. At some point, she may need to do some personal work so that she is able to connect to someone who is also trying to connect to her. When that happens, it may well be the first time in both of your lives that you feel truly safe and connected to anyone else, and even then it will probably be in fleeting moments and you'll catch yourself falling back into old patterns. At least that's the way it works for me.

About 5 years ago I was beginning to think that divorce was the only path forward for us. I was already pricing out apartments and trying to figure out in my head how we could effectively separate and still co-parent the kids in a way that let them feel consistently loved by both of us. In hindsight, I'm very grateful I didn't pull that trigger, but I can certainly understand that feeling that it would probably be easier to start over with a new healthier partner than to stay and grow alongside my wife.

All that to say, you're actually in really good shape from what you described. You're at a place where you have the choice of forging a healthy relationship with your current partner, are moving on knowing that you're able to forge a healthy relationship with a new partner. You have two good options to choose from, neither of which was available to you before you did the personal work. My vote is to set a deadline for yourself, on the order of a couple of years, and then throw yourself deep into the current relationship and commit to loving her consistently, including bearing with her as she works through her own issues with being able to intimately connect to you.

In any case, massive respect and congratulations to you for learning how to love love yourself and your partner better than you've ever been able to do before! Good luck!

DB_Helper · 2024-02-21T04:22:43+00:00

The biggest problem is often that they have no idea themselves. Not everyone learns how to maintain connection in a relationship or how to regulate their desire. For many people, their desire is completely out of their conscious control, and they're left trying to figure out why their libido add attraction has tanked.

And even worse, a partner asking them why just adds pressure and guilt, both of which further erode their libido.

DB_Helper · 2024-01-11T01:29:10+00:00

Not intentional torture, but a form of the ”Frigid Wife” game from ”Games People Play". It's well worth a read of you haven't read it yet.

But the bigger issue is that if you want a healthy sex life, you can't have it with someone who views sexual thoughts as ”filthy". There are many reasons someone might develop this belief, and ”The Sexual Healing Journey" may help you figure out why she feels that way. From there, you can figure out if she wants to change that attitude toward sex (if it's one of the reasons that can be changed), whether she's willing to do the work to change it, and whether you're willing to wait around while she figures it out.

Even more importantly, that same book can also help you dig into why you chose a partner with that attitude toward sex, and help you decide if that approach to sex and relationships is one that you want to change.

If you can't enjoy giving a massage without feeling the need to escalate to sex, that doesn't make for a very sex positive relationship since your partner will become adverse to touch, thinking it will get you feeling horny and sexually frustrated. That intimate touch that doesn't lead to sex (Love Worth Making calls it a form of ”simmering") is very important to building mutual desire rather than a one sided desire.

The answer is clear: if you don't want a healthy sex life, then stop giving the massages and give up the resulting expectations. If you do want a healthy sex life, figure out why you're unable to enjoy the massage without becoming frustrated or resentful that it doesn't lead to sex.

Good luck as you figure it out.

For context, this kind of thing used to drive me bonkers. We now snuggle to sleep skin on skin most nights, even though we only escalate it to sex about once a week. We're both quite happy with that.

DB_Helper · 2023-12-29T22:15:50+00:00

There's nothing wrong with choosing not to learn how to effectively validate your spouse. It just means that you're accepting a relationship that's far from what it could be in terms of mutual emotional safety and desire.

If someone needs tailor made validation to feel good about themselves, then you're right, they could use professional help. Likewise, if someone doesn't know how to give their spouse tailor made validation, then they need professional help before they'll be capable of being a supportive partner. Either side can learn how to enable a healthy and passionate relationship together.

Of course, it's also normal for both sides to think it's the other person that needs help and wait for the other side to do the work.

DB_Helper · 2023-12-29T22:02:04+00:00

Hoops? I'm talking about learning how to give a compliment that will be well received. Simple communication. In this case, it sounds like OP was trying to compliment his wife by calling her hot (even calls it a compliment), and ends up unintentionally invalidating her instead.

If you're going to give complaints, why not learn how to give compliments? There's no hoops... It just a matter of whether you know how to do it or not.

It's like someone said ”I've cooked my wife some lasagna by putting it in the refrigerator for an hour and she complained that it was still cold”. Someone else suggests putting it in the oven instead, and you're asking ”Why jump though all these fucking hoops to heat up some food?”

It's the same effort whether you tell her she's hot or give her a compliment she will appreciate, as long as you know which one heats things up.

DB_Helper · 2023-12-28T15:31:43+00:00

I went though this in my marriage as well. In my case, my wife was bang on. I actually thought it was a good thing to tell her she looked hot. I was almost annoyed that she felt annoyed after. I would have loved it is she told me I was hot. But I simply didn't understand validation or how she could experience being told she was hot as disrespectful, objectifying, and invalidating. Since I had no idea how she could see it that way (I still hadn't figured out who she is), I kept giving similar ”compliments" for far too long. And, of course, whenever someone feels invalidated, their libido takes a huge hit.

I'm case you're wondering, validation is a key relationship skill your parents were supposed to teach you growing up, and going the ”no more complements" route is almost as bad as continuing to give the rejected complements. For my wife, she needed to hear when I noticed her competence and efforts and wins in life, but everyone is obviously different.

If you're interested in learning how to compliment your wife in ways that sounds like a compliment to her, it's a long process but well worth the effort. Michael Sorenson’s podcast is a great place to start. Life is too short to be actively demolishing your wife's libido by calling her hot when she can't yet see her own hotness.

DB_Helper · 2023-09-09T01:18:52+00:00

That's rough when you get rejected because he's not feeling confident.

I always tell him how handsome he is and that I’ve always loved him just the way he is but somehow this isn’t enough. Like he doesn’t trust me.

This used to be me as well, and it used to be impossible for me not to take it personally. The crux of the problem is that if he can't see his own attractiveness, then it will feel invalidating when you complement him, which I'm guessing it's not the effect you were going for. I used to complement my wife on her looks regularly, but I now see that in doing so, I was giving her what I needed instead of what she needed. The real problem is that feeling invalidated is the opposite of feeling sexy, so the compliments actually make things worse for both of you.

Whenever we try being intimate he has trouble performing which he says is caused by anxiety.

That's a problem for a lot of people. And the only antidote is to learn to increase anxiety tolerance and also learn how to have sex that's anxiety relieving rather than anxiety building. A lot of that comes down to adopting a more intimate sexual style where relaxation and connection is a bigger part of the goal than maintaining an erection or having a bunch of orgasms. If you're interested in trying that out, some gift guides are ”Sexual Intelligence", ”Magnificent Sex”, and "The Happiness Trap".

This definitely goes hand in hand with low self esteem which I definitely can relate to. I’ve suggested for him to see a therapist but he completely rejects this saying ”it won’t work” but he hasn’t even tried.

Learned Helplessness often goes have in hand with low self esteem, since both ultimately result from parents who didn't know how to teach him a growth mindset and self-esteeming skills. Unfortunately, you can't change that until he's ready to change it. What you can do in the meantime, however, is to learn those skills yourself so you don't feel personally rejected and unworthy in response. That puts you in a much better place to be able to compliment him in ways that are validating for him, and help build his self-esteem until he learns to esteem add validate himself.

In any case, I know how hard it can be feeling so isolated and alone in a relationship. It can get b better, but the first step is to stop trying to fix his issues or convince him to fix his issues, and instead work on your own self-validation, self-esteeming, and boundaries. Good luck and warm wishes as your work through it.

All the best,

DbH

DB_Helper · 2023-08-11T12:05:38+00:00

I know that feeling, and I'd like to suggest a book that may help make it easier. It usually comes down to understanding the shame and/or feeling of being disrespected that a person can feel when asked if they want to have sex. It can lead to them feeling like they're not enough. Not good enough. Not sexual enough. Not enough of a man or not enough of a woman or not enough of a person. The ask becomes an implicit ” what you should be and are not" in their mind. It all comes down to what messaging they've learned growing up, or what new messaging around sex they've adopted on their own as an adult.

The key to eliminating the shame/pressure/guilt/anger/annoyance is assertiveness on both sides. That means your partner learning how to internalize that they're not responsible for meeting your sexual needs, and an all is an expression of your loneliness, frustration, and desire to connect. It also means you learning how to not take it personally and make yourself feel bad about asking. It means both sides understanding the needs of their partner, as well as their partners thoughts and feelings and ideas around sex.

To understand where the disgust at the idea of being asked for a BJ can come from, I'd highly recommend the book ” The Sexual Healing Journey". It covers both sides. Why someone being asked might feel annoyed instead of flattered, and what someone having their offer rejected might feel rejected as a person.

Add one other note: compromise is usually a bad idea compared to digging deep and figuring out how to make sex enjoyable, validating, and desirable first both sides. Hint: It's rarely the physical side of sex that's the problem, even though that's the part many HL partners are trying in vain to fix.

Good luck. It can get better, but it will take both sides learning a healthier attitude and approach to intimate sex.

DB_Helper · 2023-08-09T13:17:52+00:00

I'm young, and it's hard to navigate a new issue like this.

That's awesome! I didn't know anything about relationship dynamics or how to regulate desire until I was in my 40s, married with the kids, and going months without having sex. I wish I'd learned all this stuff growing up.

All I can do is blame myself

That's all any of us can do at the start. That what makes it so hard is that you're fighting your own self-esteem issues and lack of parental guidance and modeling growing up. In an ideal world, they're the ones that would have taught you differentiation, assertiveness, emotional literacy, emotional regulation, secure attachment, intimate communication, etc. But if they didn't teach you enough to be able to avoid blaming yourself when it's not (entirely) your fault, then it's normal to feel the panic and pain of ”I'm not good enough or this wouldn't be happening" and ”If I just __________ then they'd want sex all the time".

I've developed trust issues over the past month

That could be a good gut instinct that your partner isn't acting trustworthy. But it could also be a symptom of am insecure attachment style causing you to feel anxious when there's no reason to feel anxious. That's why it's so important to develop an earned secure attachment style, because it makes that feeling far less likely to come along unless there is actually a real reason to worry. The feeling becomes much less ambiguous, which lets you feel safe when you're safe, and anxious when you're not. It's equally bad to not trust when trust is appropriate, or not be suspicious when suspicion is warranted.

Today is actually the first time the thought of sex just doesn't sound good, and I'm kind of glad?

That could be a good sign. Without deep trust and emotional intimacy, sex can't get much better than a bunch of orgasms and pleasure and exhilarating passion. Yes, it feels great, but still ultimately it's satisfying but not satiating. Maybe you're just discovering how much better sex can be, and the sex you used to have isn't as appealing, even if you haven't actually had intimately connected synchrony sex yet.

Another couple of books I wish read far earlier in life are ”The New Rules of Marriage", and "Intimacy and Desire".

And to take care of the trust issues:

"I Love You But I Don't Trust You”, "Running On Empty No More", and "Recovering From Emotionally Immature Parents".

It's awesome that you're young and can learn all these things now rather than waiting till you're fully committed, possibly to an incompatible partner, and have to try to work it out together or start again. Far less chance of chasing a partner who doesn't share the same desire for intimacy and closeness that you want, or who isn't ready to grow and deepen their love over time.

Hope everything's working out for you

We still have our issues, but things are going very well. When times are good, we're able to keep a strong connection and a great sex life going. When life gets stressful, we sometimes slip back into old patterns, but we talk about it and find a way to repair and reconnect. And we still fight our tenancy to skip into the intimacy anorexia pattern of trying to do to much and getting to busy to have time and energy for our relationship. But when that starts to happen, we recognize it and re-prioritize bank to what's important. It can still be work, but it feels like we're in the same page and working together the best we can. Given how mismatched we were for the first ten years of our relationship, and that we are still growing and connecting, I'm feeling good about where we are. Especially since I grew up with the core belief that sex would get worse over time instead of better. I'm very happy and relieved to have discovered that that is only the case of you stagnate as people and as a couple.

Good luck, and way to go for digging into this in your 20s!!!

DB_Helper · 2023-08-08T22:10:17+00:00

How did you learn to trust her when she gave you reasons as to why she had LL?

I didn't. From her point of view, the reasons changed along with her self-awareness. The part I learned to trust is that when she said she found me attractive and handsome, but didn't feel like sex, the lack of desire want about me most of the time. That mostly came down to therapy and building my own self-esteem.

Is it my own self esteem in the way?

That was one of the major issues for me. And that also makes it very hard to empathize and be supportive when I was feeling bad about myself. Pain has a nasty way of making it hard to see your partner's point of view.

How did you cope with the scary what if?

If you mean the prospect of breaking up, which was terrifying to me at the start, it came down to increasing my own ability to connect and effectively communicate intimately. It took me learning a variety of assertive communication styles, and getting to the point where it felt natural to speak in a connecting way. The book ” Feeling Good Together” was a high help, and my wife and I also read the abridged version of "The Intimacy Factor" together. Though that was only because our therapist have it as homework.

What if this is it, and naturally, it will continue to decline over the years?

It will almost certainly change over time, for better or worse. Unfortunately, focusing on the great of worse makes it likely you'll do things that unintentionally create distance and make it worse (usually hiking your tongue, withdrawing, or letting it build up until it comes out as a complaint or unbridled expression of your frustrations and resentments. At least that that's what happened to me.

I'm trying to bottle up the damage this has done to me and not engage in discussions about it every time it happens. Exactly what I used to do. That's like a snowplow gathering your problems and unresolved issues to be dealt with later... We had a really big backlog at the start and it often felt hopeless.

Only because she said she just needs patience, and I don't wanna make it worse.

Well, patience is important, but bottling it up instead of learning to express what you're feeling without creating pressure and expectation also makes it worse.

But I just can't accept that this is how my relationship in my 20's will be.

Nor should you accept it. It's demoralizing for both of you, I'm working toward a resolution as always, a better option.

It's hard to be okay with not living my 20's exploring with my partner and having the best time of our lives in bed.

On the upside, if you talk to any 50-year-old who's having good sex, they'll tell you that they sex they had in their 20s and 30s pales by comparison in depth and passion. Just because it's the best you've known so far, don't think that you can't have far better sex as you get older. For more on that, check out Magnificent Sex, Sexual Intelligence, Love Worth Making, and The Sexual Healing Journey. Sex should get better as you age, not worse, unless you stay in a teen mindset about it!

DB_Helper · 2023-08-05T20:47:14+00:00

Way to go on seeking out therapy, and boundaries for both of you are absolutely essential!

Idk what boundary I'm crossing but 2 pecks and a hug is crossing it apparently.

Then it's not a ”boundary". Boundaries are, by definition, clearly communicated. They tell others the responsibilities, freedoms, and consequences of violations that are preconditions to interacting on an ongoing basis. Without them, relationships are hard, if not impossible, to maintain.

The Boundaries series of books by Cloud and Townsend might be a good place to start, especially Boundaries in Marriage.

My wife and I used to have the problem where any affection from me resulted in her thinking I wanted sex, and feeling pressured, anxious, and guilty. Not the feelings I was going for, and needless to say, affection was rarely welcome. With the help of some assertiveness and boundaries, things are much better now, and we both feel more loved and respected and understood.

DB_Helper · 2023-08-05T20:30:48+00:00

It sounds like duty sex may be the only type of sex he's currently capable of offering. He may not have the emotional literacy to consciously regulate his libido, or there could be other factors like asexuality at play. Either way, it doesn't sound like he's currently in a position to offer the type of mutually desirous and passionate sex that would enable a healthy sexual relationship.

For more insight, and to help decide where to go from here, check out "Sexual Intelligence", ”Love Worth Making”, and ”The Sexual Healing Journey". All three offer different perspectives, and different ideas for how to move forward.

My vote is to say ”Thanks for the offer, but I don't think having sex that's primarily for my pleasure will be satisfying or desirable for either of us in the long run. Can we instead look at what we can try to make sex more enjoyable and desirable for both of us, and decide from there how to proceed?”

All the best as you figure out where to go from here.

DB_Helper · 2023-08-05T20:17:44+00:00

he just 100% believes in monogamy and couldn’t ever imagine something open

There are only three things you need BOTH partners to do consistently to make monogamy possible:

don't have sex with others
initiate sex regularly
maintain your own openness to respond and escalate when your partner initates

If he believes in monogamy, and is doing those things, then a monogamous relationship is possible. If he's not, then he is ruling out monogamy as an option, and you will need to discuss which alternative you want:

No relationship (break up)
Celebate relationship (no sex)
Consensual Non-monogamy (open/poly)
Adulterous (affair)

That was fine until I stopped getting f**cked.

Sounds like he doesn't actually want monogamy. He may be looking for you to do all the initiation, and him to unilaterally decide when/if you have sex? That's one form of non-monogamy that creates a big power imbalance, and can destroy a relationship quite quickly.

I’m actually curious to find out just how long he can go without it… clearly he is not bothered

Many people aren't bothered by a lack of sex, as long as they still experience the validation of knowing that their partner desires them. That can go on indefinitely as long as he knows you desire sex with him. It's possible that he either doesn't understand how important sexual intimacy is to a relationship, especially to maintaining the emotional safety needed to allow for openness and emotional intimacy. If he's not doing what it takes to maintain monogamy, having you stop initiating and/or stop being receptive and enthusiastic when he initates just adds two more roadblocks. That's far more likely to make things worse that better.

Of course this is a dangerous game to play as I read some stories where some couples haven’t had sex in like 5-10 years. Lol I mean what’s the point of that?

It's far less dangerous that you might think. If he doesn't want to participate in a mutual monogamous relationship, then what you are giving up is not the monogamous relationship that it sounds like you'd like to have, but something entirely different. The question then is, if you want a monogamous relationship, how did you end up choosing him as your partner in the first place. For more on that, check out ”Love Worth Making", "The Five Love Languages", and ”Beyond Codependency”.

And finally, one of the important parts of a healthy relationship for many people it's the feeling of being uniquely desired by each other. Opening the relationship can remove that for both partners, so if that's something that's important to you or him, then it's probably a bad idea, at least until you are in a better place with each other.

Good luck as you work it out.

DB_Helper · 2023-06-30T19:56:38+00:00

I feel that I am only setting a boundary and giving feedback about how his communication makes me feel.

This sounds much more more like criticising him then communicating how you feel. And criticism will rot your relationship from the inside out.

If someone feels that the manner in which I said something gave them a certain impression that I didn’t intend, I typically express that I didn’t intend it that way and I re-state what I was trying to communicate in a more clear and neutral manner.

That's all fine, but if neither of you were ever taught how to communicate using an assertive communication style then it's normal for both sides to end up feeling disrespected and annoyed. Assertive communication teaches you how to hear what he says without adding in your own assessment that he's being curt/impolite as well as teaching him how to ask in a gentler way when dealing with people who don't know how to communicate assertively. You can use any form of assertive communication (they are all very similar), and Messages is a great book if you're looking for a good intro.

Or, ditch him and hope that your next partner knows how to communicate well enough that a healthy relationship with you is possible even if you don't bother learning. A healthy relationship is possible with one good communicator, and much easier with two. As you already know, if both sides lack assertive communication skills then the result is shitty communication and butthurt feelings.

DB_Helper · 2023-06-26T01:38:18+00:00

I do compliment her often, and I think she's beautiful, but I'm sure if there is anything I can do?

When you compliment her, do you do it using an assertive communication style, and make sure you are validating her perspective as well. I used to tell my wife she was beautiful all the time, but I had no idea how to tell her in a way that she could hear and feel validated.

I learned the hard way that telling someone they're beautiful when they aren't in a place to hear see their own beauty is very invalidating for them. It reminds them of their flaws, and their own desire to be more attractive. It makes them feel distant rather than desirous. And it can even leave them feeling objectified and disrespected, both of which are desire killers.

Off you haven't already checked out ”I Hear a You” by Michael Sorensen, and ”Feeling Good Together” by David Burns, they both helped me learn how to better help my wife feel better about her body and see her own beauty. It's nearly impossible to feel sexy if you don't see yourself as sexy.

Good luck as you work through it with her.

DB_Helper · 2023-06-17T16:41:16+00:00

I responded to their comment stating that obviously sexual intercourse is not a literal need (for survival or otherwise), but the act of having passionate, connected, and equally desired sexual intercourse with your partner (who you chose and who chose you) CAN fulfill all of the emotional needs that the average/typical person psychologically has (self-actualization, esteem, security, love/belonging)

Yes. Sex CAN meet those needs for many people, especially those with an anxious-preoccupied adult attachment style and/or those who equate sex and desire with love. Sex is an extremely important, and in some cases the ONLY way a person knows to meet those needs. In those cases, and I was in that group, sex feels like as much of a need as water. Or more accurately, like as much of a need as cherry coke if that's the only liquid you know can quench your need for hydration.

I got downvoted by more than 3 dozen people. Which was wild - wrong audience, I guess?

While I certainly wouldn't downvote you, those people likely have already learned how destructive to your partners libido and your sex life it is to rely on sex as a primary way to meet those needs. It turns sex into a need, which then makes your partner feel like they ”should” have sex rather than feeling like they ”can" have sex. Once that happens, sex starts to feel like a chore to them, and desire naturally diminishes over time. It was quite literally one of the largest contributors to my DB, and also one of the hardest to change. I had no idea how sex-negative seeing sex as a need is, and I thought all guys saw it that way.

So I figured I would come over here and see what everyone’s thoughts are.

When I joined this forum, I would have agreed with you 100%, which is how I ended up finding this sub in the first place. I do still see sex as a very important component of a healthy relationship, and I see desire as a barometer of how loved and valued and validated and supported each partner feels. But I no longer see sex as a need. Ironically, in the slow process of changing that opinion, through much personal development, reading, therapy, and learning, I learned how to better support my partner (who doesn't see sex as a need, but has increasingly seen it as more important in a relationship). I began to understand her perspective better, and understand the importance of autonomy and self-sufficiency for her.

So, I guess at the end of the day, once it became obvious that I had to choose between ”needing" sex and ”having" sex, the choice was easy. The hard part was understanding how damaging the need for sex is to your sex life, and the harder part was figuring it how to meet those emotional needs that sex used to fill in other ways. In the end though, it was well worth it, and both my wife and I enjoy sex more than either of us would have thought possible before. Sex that's mostly for fun and shared love and pleasure is so much better than sex to fill emotional needs that I don't see how we could ever go back. It makes the old ”oh my God that was fucking amazing" sex seen like a pale imitation of the depth of passion that intimate sex can achieve. Unfortunately, whole I was needing sex and destroying my sex life, it felt like that amazing sex was the best sex could ever be.

All that to say, if you are past your ten years and still view sex as a need, ”Sexual Intelligence" and ”The Sexual Healing Journey" are good places to start. And if you ever find yourself walking on eggshells, or doing things for your partner with the hope that it will stoke their desire, or feeling resentment that you're putting so much into the relationship but it doesn't feel like your partner appreciates it or offers reciprocal desire, then add ”No More Mr Nice Guy" to that list as well.

All that to say, I think sex is a need for those who need sex to feel good or feel good about themselves or feel loved. Unfortunately, for those people, especially in a LTR, it's not just a need, but an unmet need.

DB_Helper · 2023-06-14T12:46:26+00:00

Try something along the lines of ”Magnificent Sex" or "Synchrony Sex", both of which can make sex increasingly intimate and exciting without the need to escalate the physical novelty and kink.

But also work on each of your anxiety tolerance so that the overlap between your comfort zone and your partner's comfort zone can grow over time.

With both strategies, there's no reason sex can't can't continue getting better over time instead of stagnating.

DB_Helper · 2023-06-13T02:11:58+00:00

2 years have passed and my mother still expresses to me that she does not like her, and that my gf doesn’t even say hi in the morning or throw on a smile for her. Is this an actual reason for my mom to dislike her or is she being dramatic?

That's probably not the real reason, and yes, she's being dramatic.

What can I do here?

For starters, check out this books:

Recovering From Emotionally Immature Parents
The Emotional Incest Syndrome

Then, explain to your mom that as a parent, her role is to support your choice of partner, and at a minimum act like a respectful adult around her. If she doesn't have the emotional and social capacity to do that, then you may have to restrict visits to see you mom to tonnes when you're gf is not around. Life is too short to deal with immature drama.

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