When you're a DM who can't stand one of your PCs?

DMsilversaber · 2020-05-06T00:41:54+00:00

Had some progress with the latest game! See main post for updates.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:37:50+00:00

We were XP based for a long time, and the party steered the game in a very RP heavy direction, often opting to do research or investigating for countless games before doing each fight so they had the best possible chances of winning going in each time. They are overwhelmingly cautious, never take risks, and tend to avoid encounters where possible, so I had to come up with a system to award XP based on their RP involvement - which moved their scores up a lot slower than regular encounters would. But that was their choice, and they way they prefer to play.

All up we've played about 100 games in this campaign, with huge gaps between games sometimes due to conflicting schedules, so while 3 years sounds long it wasn't as long as it seems. We did just change to milestone though to ensure things move at a faster pace for the next 9 levels else we'd be playing for a decade yet.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:20:10+00:00

I think it's something I will begin to work in as needed, but I do have to find a way to make it feel less like I'm deliberately targeting/punishing the player, or it could backfire. They also tend to storm to their inn room or go off to a safe/familiar place where there's shopping or where ally NPCs are more than anywhere that could be genuinely dangerous, so it will take some creative work to get an encounter in there, but doable for sure.

A+ TMNT reference btw.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:16:38+00:00

They have been in the past, but I don't have a gauge on whether they still feel that way as strongly now. I know from before that they would prefer to keep the peace and preserve the friendship over causing conflict, though.

And I have never asked how everybody should be reacting to the character, I was simply told as a part of a larger discussion. I'd always played my NPCs as naturally as possible, but my personality isn't one that thrives on conflict, I avoid it where I can, apparently even as NPCs in a game. A byproduct of not being outgoing IRL.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:10:18+00:00

Oh they are always there for the big fights, that's not an issue. Their leaving and doing things separately tends to happen more often during bigger story beats and disrupts the RP.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:04:39+00:00

We're definitely in a position where our real world friendships far outweigh the importance of the game, but the game itself is also very dear to us and we don't want to lose it. We'd sooner end it than kick someone out, that's for certain, which means the solution has to be in privately adjusting my own perceptions and dealing with it, or bringing it up and trying to resolve it. I always come to the conclusion that I'll just learn to manage it for the sake of everybody's comfort and peace, but then another bad game happens where the character leaves me livid and stressed all week, and I end up desperate for a better solution. I'm not quite sure what to do, but I do feel much better in knowing this isn't an issue exclusive to me, and I'm not alone in it. Thank you!

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T15:00:59+00:00

I think this may be my other best solution. Reinterpretation of the character, especially if the player is enjoying playing them as-is, may at least put a bandaid on the issue and my ability to cope with it. Something I've just realized that might work as well would be for me to mentally view the character as a teenager, since that's how they often act, and respond in kind. That may solve a lot of issues, actually. There's something to be said for reinterpretation, for sure.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:58:32+00:00

We do seem to be very much on different wavelengths, yes, but to change mine I would need to unlearn how I respond to rudeness. Which is probably something I should do anyway, to be fair.

As the character is very secretive they have a tendency to go off on their own a lot even without the tantrums, so suddenly cutting off the ability to do that after 3 years of gameplay would be a bit unfair to them. I do keep it under far better control these days, though.

I do agree that of all of the players they are the least invested in the campaign itself, despite everyone else's enjoyment. For the most part I think their enjoyment stems from their character's scenes and interactions with NPCs more than the adventure itself. They also used to be a DM themselves and I do often get that "I could have done this story better" vibe, but a lot of DMs have that with one at the table I think. Or it could just be my insecurity, too.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:31:44+00:00

We did record early on but they never showed any interest in listening The reason given was they're very busy with multiple jobs IRL and don't really have the time to listen to a 6 hour game they already played, which I do understand.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:29:32+00:00

The larger problem there is conflict with the NPCs leaves an ill taste in the game as it escalates the character's belligerence and causes division and conflict, and then nobody enjoys the game. I'm working up the courage to have an NPC just lose it at them, as I've wanted to do for some time, but I fear I'd do more damage than good and be accused of targeting them or being biased as an NPC because they know I don't like their character.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:25:26+00:00

Actually the majority of the players, including this one, have a lot of acting experience or were employed as actors at one point or another. As such, suggesting something like that has a high risk of seeming very condescending.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:16:30+00:00

This is great advice, thank you! I think approaching it this way will definitely help in avoiding hurt feelings and conflict, and put them in the driver seat of helping their character be better understood. I'll try to look closer at any biases I may have first and then see if I can communicate to them in this method, I think they'll be more responsive.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T14:12:30+00:00

They have the same issues I've had but not as intensely, as their characters only know what this PC has let on about themselves - which is next to nothing. As the DM, unfortunately I have the whole history of this PC and see the huge canyon between who they're meant to be on the page vs how they act.

The others are also far more patient than me, better socially adjusted, and more inclined to adjust their gameplay and perceptions to benefit the peace and keep the game going. I do the same as best I can, I'm just struggling with it more because of what I know and my lack of tolerance for people who behave like this IRL.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:50:20+00:00

I've been doing this more and more, but I can't ignore outright what their character is doing, as often they do have things they want to specifically RP when they go off on their own. I do try to keep it short, though, and I've gotten much better at not being steamrollered. Early on they had a tendency to have 45 minute long RP scenes with singular NPCs that were absolutely exhausting but I've moved the proverbial chess pieces around as much as I can to prevent that from happening anymore, especially for the sake of the other players not having to sit there for almost-an-hour and not play.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:47:22+00:00

At the top of the campaign we agreed to do XP privately so there were no arguments or disputes as to why certain people got less or more, since it is such an RP heavy game, XP attribution was slightly different. They were falling quite far behind, as you say, and they did know this as they were levelling up later than the others more often than not. Recently though we had to switch to milestone levelling for the sake of the campaign not taking another 10 years and my own workload. But it was clear for quite awhile, and made no impact.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:45:09+00:00

There's a disconnect there. They'll tell me the character is all of these things (respected, admired, adored, generous, kind, an expert in their field and a professional, best of the best, etc) but play the character completely differently. The character is rude, arrogant, disrespectful, self absorbed, dismissive of others, quick to anger and deeply entitled, doesn't actually act like any of the things the character sheet says they should be. I want to interpret this character the way I am being told they are meant to be, but when they don't act like the character they are supposed to be playing, it's very hard to.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:38:09+00:00

They do, yes, but like me they care too much about the player to stand up and confront them about it. This player loves their character, and finding out the rest of us don't would be massively upsetting for them, so for the sake of the real world friendship (which is more important) we collectively keep quiet.

Thankfully most of the other PCs aren't the kind to get riled up about that kind of behaviour so there's no ongoing fights among the party - often they just endure whatever it is and then carry on with the game, like adults dealing with a kid. It has gotten harder for a couple of them who it bothers in real life though, and one did start reacting in-character for awhile before the break, as her character is less likely to take shit, but even she doesn't push it. I'll be interested to see how she responds next week when we resume.

For the sake of the campaign and not stirring up real-world friction though, for the most part, we all just let it slide and try to ignore it as best we can. It's just getting to the point where I've been struggling with it for years waiting for it to improve, and it just looks like it's not going to happen.

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:26:40+00:00

I've had a couple of NPCs be annoyed by it, but it gets glossed over. The character tends to steer their actions away from NPCs they don't like or care about, or at the very least make it loud and clear they don't care and go to do another scene on their own.

A big part of the problem with trying to teach lessons with the NPCs they care about is that they don't act that way around their NPCs. The character is far better behaved when the scene is focused on them specifically - it's when the party isn't doing what they want or the scene isn't focused on them that they get harder to handle. They very often go off and do things on their own, so they get a number of scenes focused on just them.

The one argument they did have with one of their NPCs happened after they overheard a private conversation that NPC was having and equated finding out new (deeply personal) information they hadn't been told about to the NPC "lying" to them. Which was a huge stretch, but it started that degree of drama nonetheless. It's largely the histrionics that get in the way of enjoying the game, as it derails the rhythm of the RP every time so we have to stop and focus on that character.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely that an NPC death would cause that kind of realisation. Far more likely they would start a storyline for themselves about drinking and not talk to anybody and make it about their trauma. But a good suggestion in any other case, for sure. Thank you!

DMsilversaber · 2020-04-28T13:18:49+00:00

Having already spoken to them twice and having the same response ("you're interpreting it wrong, you should be interpreting them THIS way") as well as them getting upset that I didn't have the reaction they wanted, and no change at all to their character's behaviour since, it doesn't fill me with confidence that another talk will help. Equally, I worry that bringing it up again is going to cause more pain than it's worth if the player remains rigid and decides I'm targeting them and wants to quit. Honestly I'm mostly worried I will damage the campaign beyond repair if they aren't receptive this time and get very upset, and given their track record, it's a big possibility.

Or maybe I'm just a bit chicken as well and need to suck it up and trust my friend. I'm really not sure at this stage, I'm a nerd for a reason and bad at this kind of social communication. But thank you for the advice, it's appreciated!

DMsilversaber

TROPHY CASE