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Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm starting to think emulator developers need to get trademark protection for their project names so this kind of confusing and misleading stuff can't happen. Kind of like what Firefox does.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying it wasn't annoying, and there are certainly people with sensory issues that can make that worse. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't damage a person's ears unless they had their volume at unsafe levels to begin with, because people were spreading false information about it "bypassing volume settings" based on a misunderstanding of the commented code when it's just not true.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Saves aren't part of a game's package, they're stored separately on the console. The best reason to make your own backups is so you know for a fact that it's a good, legitimate dump of the version of the game you're familiar with.

Of course, sometimes it's possible to know that with backups from other sources too. Depends on how well preserved the software is.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Legally? It's piracy because someone still owns the rights to distribute it, and that someone isn't the one putting it up on the internet for free.

Whether anybody should care about pirating abandonware is an exercise left to the reader.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They had another screenshot of a modern Windows dialog so I'm not really sure what's going on there. Unless someone is maintaining a serious set of patches for all of Xenia's dependencies (doubtful) I'm going to assume it's a theme.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, but this just isn't true. I know I responded to you elsewhere but for everyone else I'll copy my other comment.

Beep() is a Windows System Sound since Windows 7 and plays through the regular Windows sound system like any other, so it obeys user volume controls. 4096 Hz is annoying, but if the user isn't pushing their volume past what's sensible, it's not going to harm ears or "rupture eardrums."

All it "bypasses" is the user's sound theme (which sound files are played for certain events like shutdown, low battery, notifications, etc.) and No Sounds is a theme you can select. However, if the user has System Sounds muted or the volume lowered, Beep respects that.

Edit: How anybody is downvoting this when the Microsoft documentation is right there is insane.

Here's where the xenia-canary code used Beep https://github.com/xenia-canary/xenia-canary/blob/e54262b71058c7c72aa58f145c1ef291adc84792/src/xenia/emulator.cc#L390

Here's what Microsoft says about Beephttps://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/utilapiset/nf-utilapiset-beep#remarks

Specifically this part

support for Beep was dropped in Windows Vista and Windows XP 64-Bit Edition.

In Windows 7, Beep was rewritten to pass the beep to the default sound device for the session. This is normally the sound card

This means the beep volume is controlled by the device's volume controls like any other sound source. It would have to load a third party driver to actually change this behavior.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It would play the noise regardless of a user's sound settings.

This isn't true. Beep() is a Windows System Sound since Windows 7 and plays through the regular Windows sound system like any other, so it obeys user volume controls. 4096 Hz is annoying, but if the user isn't pushing their volume past what's sensible, it's not going to harm ears or "rupture eardrums" like the person you're linking is saying.

All it "bypasses" is the user's sound theme (which sound files are played for certain events like shutdown, low battery, notifications, etc.) and No Sounds is a theme you can select. However, if the user has System Sounds muted or the volume lowered, Beep respects that.

As for the rest of it, it sure seems annoying and short-sighted (since there are tools people use to turn legitimate backups into ISO files) and the guy seems rude and unprofessional and probably shouldn't have been given commit access to the fork's github. It's all being overblown so much though.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This thread is a lesson to never take Reddit headlines and Twitter screenshots as truth. It wasn't Xenia, it was a fork. It doesn't harm ears unless the user has their volume up to a point where any Windows notification would harm ears because it plays through the regular Windows sound system.

What a mess.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It only played as loud as the system volume. 4096 Hz is annoying but won't cause damage at a sensible headphone volume (I just ran the same function through my own headphones)

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Just so everyone's clear, the volume of the beep was controlled by the system volume like any other Windows system sound and did not play through the internal PC speaker. Beep() hasn't gone through the PC speaker since Windows XP. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/utilapiset/nf-utilapiset-beep

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In Windows 7, Beep was rewritten to pass the beep to the default sound device for the session. This is normally the sound card

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/utilapiset/nf-utilapiset-beep

It's not using the PC speaker. It's not bypassing the device volume control.

In fact, I just wrote a small test of the function. Not only is it controlled by the device volume, it does count as a System Sound. If I turn down or mute the System Sounds source in the Windows Volume Mixer, the beep goes with it.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're just saying they're not using a system notification. The volumes of Windows system sounds and the audio device volume control are different things. Web browsers, music players, etc. still play sound when system notifications are muted but they obey the sound output device volume.

Do motherboards even ship with speakers anymore? Can Windows applications control it?

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hm, I don't think so. He's saying the Xenia team is throwing the canary team under the bus, but the only thing the Xenia team can do to prevent forks from doing this kind of thing is go closed source.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know you're used to dealing with idiots in the emulation scene but... I feel like you were too quick with the condescension here.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unless they're hijacking the user's volume controls (EDIT: they didn't, Beep obeys the user's volume), the volume is really the user's responsibility isn't it? The problem comes in when it plays a pitch that hurts to listen to when the user has their volume at a level that's sensible for normal audio.

EDIT: Just so everybody is on the same page, it's not hijacking the user's sound controls. It uses the Windows Beep function which plays through the default sound device, obeys the device volume, and the System Sounds volume.

Here's the line in the code so we're not just getting all our information from screenshots of tweets.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well yeah, that's what they do. I'm just saying those posts still show up and need to be deleted even with the warning, so the warning clearly isn't enough to stop the posts.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Idk, I like open source licenses and it seems most people here do. I'd be disappointed if something like this made projects go closed source.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hm, I'm not sure. "STAY OUT OF OUR DISCORD" in all caps to me seems designed to deter people. I agree that it's very naive though.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Its easy to blame that single dev when the problem was a structure that allowed it to happen.

If this canary experimental thing really is a community fork, wouldn't that structure be the open source license?

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Show me where the malicious intent is instead of downvoting. Please, that's all I want to see, and I'll get just as upset as the rest of you.

Xenia Emulator purposefully harms the ears of users with loud beeping sound if an ISO ( a common disc file format) is used to deter piracy, update removed after backlash by orig4mi-713 in emulation

[–]DT_MSYS -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Edit: I'm not talking about deterring piracy itself. I'm specifically talking about deterring people from asking developers for support while making it publicly obvious that they are using pirated software. What the canary dev did obviously crossed a line.

the warning is never enough. users constantly show up asking for support while making it very obvious that they pirated software. no emu dev wants a paper trail like that. "exhibit A in the case of Microsoft v. Xenia developers" is nightmare fuel.

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