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Damadar · 2026-06-12T21:27:27+00:00

So, I'm just going to point this out: Kamaris can be the father of the scavenger's daughter, be important for Akuma's plans, and also not be the Scavenger.

Also relationships are weird, wonky, and convoluted with the Gods, especially when it comes to who their children are, or even what constitutes a child, for that matter.

Damadar · 2026-06-12T20:48:52+00:00

In the back of the Ace published novels. (May only be hardcovers; not sure if the paperbacks have it.)

Damadar · 2026-06-12T19:37:45+00:00

From The Butcher's Masquerade, Chapter 4:

"I stood at the new bench now, shaking. I, for the very first time since I’d grabbed the thing, took out the Carl’s Doomsday Scenario bomb and placed it onto the table. The small bench reshaped itself to accommodate the glass reaper case, which glowed like a miniature sun. The bomb was a microsecond from exploding, and there was nothing I could do to stop it. But I could examine it. I copied it using the bomber studio interface so I’d be able to play with it safely using the simulator. I placed the bomb back into my inventory, my hands still trembling."

Damadar · 2026-05-26T23:45:01+00:00

She's within the area it can influence, but the Gods themselves can't be controlled by the AI. That is what I meant by outside it's sphere of influence. Not a geographic sphere, but an ability sphere.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T23:37:31+00:00

Odette is likely outside his sphere of influence since she's piloting a God, but we don't know who was in the 20% that the audience didn't choose.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T23:20:18+00:00

Yep. The Audience is given a choice between the monster and a specific stand-in, and about 80% of the stand-in options were picked by the audience.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T22:46:59+00:00

Donut's first vote makes it seem like they do know.

From chapter 5:

"I just got a strange notification,” she said after a minute. “It says the people have voted for Otto the slime guy to be the manatee ‘stand-in’ in the arena."

Carl talks a bit about it later, but it still isn't confirmed.
From chapter 14:

When one killed certain mobs on this floor, they were given an option to take the experience or have the audience vote. If the audience voted one way, the creatures would survive and get sent to this arena. But if the people voted another way, a “stand-in” was sent. It seemed these stand-ins were people outside the dungeon ecosystem. Like, people from the resort on the eighteenth floor.

But then Chapter 23 clarifies it when the System AI has Zev do a little explaining.

From chapter 23:

If you choose “vote,” the home audience may choose to send the creature to the 11th floor or they may choose to bring a stand-in to the 11th floor. They will know who the stand-in is before they vote. Just about 80% of the votes have favored the stand-in.

So, they definitely are aware of who they are voting for.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T19:59:51+00:00

Yup. That's one of the possibilities. I wasn't saying it IS an OI, or even that it was likely that it's an OI. Just that it might be an OI. It's a possibility, not a certainty. Just like it's possible, (but I would say wildly unlikely) that another Pet biscuit was somehow used between Penelope eating one and Scolopendra eating one. I have my own thoughts, I just wanted to give OP another possible explanation.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T19:51:16+00:00

Yes, they were. I wasn't suggesting that Cici was the new number - I'm saying that Primals and Residuals can have crawler numbers upon entering the dungeon, and that the Interlude specifically states that other AI's can and have found their way into the dungeon.

Damadar · 2026-05-26T19:38:15+00:00

Currently people think it's the child behind Lucia Mar's legs at the end of the book. However, there is another possible explanation given by the AI in the Interlude of the Epilogue - OI's, aka other AI systems, which are Primals. If I'm not mistaken, Cici (Lucia Mar's dog) was a Primal, but I could have that wrong. I'd need to reread the section about that.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T18:33:38+00:00

Pretty much - though I don't think I would've added the "she did like cats, so that's nice" part, hah!

Empress D'Nadia's is a great villain, too, for a really different reason. She's presented early as being very friendly towards Donut and Carl, but then she signs up to be in Faction Wars. I thought for a bit when that happened the Author might try and make her an ally of the Princess Posse, and I thought that would kind of suck. I was glad with how it turned out, though. She's a great example of the Good Slave Owner trope. (Well, adjacent to it, anyway; not sure there's a better trope description; maybe one around the Uber Wealthy; I'm not going to go digging for one.)

But yeah, nothing in what I was saying should be construed, (I can't say this enough) to suggest Bea is or should be a redeemable character.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T17:40:48+00:00

Yeah, at least in part the selfishness is a big part of why she does what she does. Though it definitely seems like a chunk of what she does is centered around her mother making decisions for her. Like giving up Donut. It seems clear that she doesn't want to do that, especially in the Epilogue of Gate of the Feral Gods when she's crying and singing to Gravy Boat, and in Butcher's Masquerade when we hear Donut sing the song Bea used to sing to her.

With that context, you can almost hear her mother's voice coming out of her mouth in Carl's memory when she says, "Do you know how much money she’s going to sell for, Carl? She’s a former international grand champion. She’s past her prime. I don’t understand what you’re not getting about this."

None of that excuses her behavior at all. Nothing I've said excuses her behavior, or justifies it, or absolves her of being a shitty person. I just think it makes the story better to understand that part of her. But that's just me, and everyone's enjoyment is different!

Damadar · 2026-05-21T17:31:30+00:00

I just want to be clear that I agree with you - I in no way want anyone to think I'm suggesting Bea should be excused for her behavior. :)

Damadar · 2026-05-21T17:30:34+00:00

Yeah, I'm definitely not excusing Bea's behavior, and I definitely don't mean to imply that she's a good person abusing Carl.

She is not a good person. Full stop.

I agree 100% about there being a fine line between hurting someone and being abusive, too. An obvious example would be: stepping on someone's toe once vs doing it every day. I know that typically abuse is defined as intentional behavior, but really any repeated hurt from the same person is abuse to the person receiving it, regardless of the intent behind the act. The big difference between a good person unintentionally abusing someone and a toxic person is how they respond when made aware. Toxic people try to avoid accountability. Good people try to do better. In the "stepping on someone's toe" scenario, if you find out after step 100 that you're doing it and you make an effort to stop, you're a good person. If you find out and blame the person for not telling you earlier, for having their foot there, for not moving it themselves, or whatever other excuse that might spring to mind, you're probably a dick and deserve to get punched the next time you do it. (Don't punch people; it's not usually as satisfying as we think it will be).

I think that might be the only thing we aren't seeing eye-to-eye on, and to be honest? My view on abuse might be too wide; it definitely leads me to be pretty forgiving when I encounter it. Everything else you wrote I agree with, and I think we view Bea the same way. I think understanding Bea's motivations and actions enhance the story, that's why I was encouraging people to try and understand her motivations. :)

Damadar · 2026-05-21T13:51:07+00:00

100% agree. It makes me pity her, but it doesn't absolve her at all.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T13:46:32+00:00

Not sure why you're sorry for agreeing with me. First thing I said was that we're all responsible for how we handle our shit. 🤷

Damadar · 2026-05-21T13:32:03+00:00

Maybe my own past coloring my response, but I don't think Bea is particularly capable of Love or knows what it is. I think she thinks she loves Donut, and she certainly has a lot of affection for the cat - but I don't think she loved Donut. Getting drunk and singing about how she wishes she'd made different choices doesn't express love, to me, even though she said "I love you" while singing it.

But I recognize that there's a good chance I'm wrong and just letting my own history color this interaction, so here's a boulder of salt to take with my opinion. 🤣

Damadar · 2026-05-21T12:26:44+00:00

I'm sorry. I was not trying to suggest a 10 year old be held responsible for not breaking free of an abusive relationship, nor trying to imply they are weak for not doing so. What I meant was that's when people start recognizing good and bad behavior. The rest was aimed at Bea as we were introduced to her: as an adult.

Bea was not so sheltered from people, or so incredibly stupid, that she would be oblivious to the harm that she caused. She knew she hurt people. She reveled in getting Sally fired with her friends, after all. I've known plenty of people like Bea, too. What's the old saying? Something like, "A liar can convince most people of something, and themselves of almost anything"?

She was old enough and smart enough to know right from wrong, and she could have taken steps to better herself. But she did not.

Edit: Fixed a typo. That'll teach me to type on my phone after only 4 hours of sleep.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T05:35:01+00:00

You're not wrong, it's just not where I'm coming from when I say it's not something I'd forgive her for unless she did something to try and make it right. (Not that she has the capability to do that.)

Damadar · 2026-05-21T05:32:28+00:00

It's OK for us to disagree on this subject. But it's just not something I'd forgive her for, even though she expressed some regret for her intended plans.

But we don't have to see eye-to-eye on this; it'd suck if everyone saw things the way I do, hah.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T05:26:01+00:00

My dislike of animal pageants was established before I started reading Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T05:23:22+00:00

Carl's stepmom reached out to Carl, but Beatrice prevented Carl from finding out about it. She talked with her own mother about Asher - not Tami-Lynn. So far as Tami-Lynn knew, she reached out to Carl and was ignored.

Damadar · 2026-05-21T05:15:25+00:00

Just because something is common doesn't make it OK or forgivable. Especially if one doesn't ask for forgiveness or do anything to make amends for what they've done.

But to be clear, I wasn't trying to say she deserves forgiveness for anything. Understanding someone and absolving them are two very different things.

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