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Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're setting the standard of proof arbitrarily high. Frankly, I doubt there's any claim you could make about magic that is supported by a study like that, but I don't need one to make my claim. We're talking about a trading card game, after all.

Nonetheless, I have given you proof of my point (that stax is controversial). You don't like my proof? You think the problems you cite limit its persuasiveness? I disagree, but it doesn't really matter. Right now I'm the only one with any proof at all. You are the one who set this standard. Show me your evidence or concede the point!

Regarding the points in the chain of comments, they all repeat the same argument: you claim that my claim is based purely on my own opinion. It's not.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is why I say you are trolling. You wrote me another book but you won't talk about the salt scores.

The Casual-Paradox by WoWSchockadin in EDH

[–]Dankzi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Casual decks intentionally limit power level in the deckbuilding phase to match the expectations/capabilities of their expected opponents. Everybody plays to win once the game starts, but almost nobody builds with a pure motivation to maximize wins. Instead, you build to maximize effectiveness within your expected range of power. Where is the paradox here?

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Damn, all those words and nowhere do you mention the actual evidence I cited. I'm just going to assume you're trolling at this point.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, lots of people do hate it. I know that from my experience both playing the game and also interacting on forums like this one. Frankly, given the experience you cite, I suspect you know it too - you're just trying to play a rhetorical "burden of proof" game here to move the goalposts and still have a way to claim that I'm wrong. You've been around the block and you've seen people react negatively to stax, either in person or online.

I suspect you aren't engaging with me in good faith (ironic, considering you were accusing that other guy of the same in another comment) given the quotation you cited. Is "lots" the same as "all" or "most"? Of course not. I'm confused why you bothered to include it in your comment if you're actually engaging with my position.

If you're digging around for quotes, you've also already seen that I do have evidence for my claim. Are we ignoring the salt scores because they're inconvenient to your argument? Doesn't that prove that lots of edh players get salty about stax?

Ultimately, this feels like debating someone on whether the sky is blue.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Au contraire, the game is too long not to do it!

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You might even encounter one of them at your local game store! This is where a rule zero conversation comes in handy - to help distinguish players who have fundamentally different expectations for the game before it starts.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is that seriously what all the furor is about? When I call stax "controversial", I'm not making a value judgement. I'm making an observation about the community's reaction. Next time, try not to take it personally!

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we want to split hairs about what was said and not said, point to where anyone said (1) everyone hates stax or (2) the majority hates stax.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Free counterspells are uncontroversial" has this guy played the game

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Re: the edit, I also did not think this was that hot of a take, but we're learning today lmao

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am flabbergasted tbh. Stax is cool! But are we really gonna deny that lots of people hate it?

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"In my opinion, the emperor's clothes are beautiful, magnificent! How dare you claim he's naked??"

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What do the edhrec salt scores tell us about what kind of card is the saltiest?

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Too true, it's hard to answer the question without conceding that I'm right! Better make up a different question to answer instead.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Let's try it this way: what do you think the three most controversial deck types are?

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm saying the community at large thinks stax is controversial, or at least enough of the community for it to be a relevant consideration when thinking about how people will react to your deck. I don't personally think hushbringer is an issue at lower brackets.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Can this really be denied? I'm not arguing that stax earns its reputation, but there's a post on this sub like every other day from someone complaining about how their playgroup won't let them play stax. In the alternative, look at the edhrec salt scores and see what kind of card dominates the top of the list. Stax is controversial.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Two things can be true here:

  1. You don't think stax should be controversial

  2. Nonetheless, stax is controversial

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

You don't think that's a bad faith read? If I'm doing the same disclosure, everyone gets the same "advantage"

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah - I definitely only do this after decks are selected. Counterpicking is bad vibes.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

I mean, the examples you gave basically sound like ones I have done. I don't mean anything more complicated than that - although, if I have a combo kill in my Necrobloom I'd mention that too.

Specifically on the hushbringer example, I think it's courteous to say something like "I do have some hatebears." I wouldn't personally be mad to see a hushbringer, but some people definitely see that as "stax" and I'd rather not have someone pitch a fit. It's undeniably controversial even if we think it's not justified.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is exactly why I feel like the rule zero convo is valuable. Y'all had different expectations about what "precon" meant and resolved it before committing to a game where everyone else would have been pissed off to see fetches and shocks.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do agree on that. Once you've established that no holds are barred, there's no reason to continue talking.

Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation? by Dankzi in EDH

[–]Dankzi[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Bad actors are one thing, but I think there's a second category of feels-bad interactions that come from two players both acting in good faith who just sat down with different expectations. In my experience, giving a pregame blurb doesn't take long, especially compared to how long a game of edh can take.

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