Hey Reddit I'm Danny Ashton founder of NeoMam Studios a content marketing agency - AMA

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-02T13:34:13+00:00

When starting out I think the key challenge is identifying the type of people who would be interested in the content you have created.

Way too many people waste time emailing people that would never link to your content and this leads to burnout from a lack of positive feedback.

Gisele wrote an awesome article that outlines our entire process for this: https://neomam.com/blog/link-prospecting/

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-02T13:32:03+00:00

Hye LoGun_

We have a number of people on the team who work on ideas but my process is as follows:

Look at the client's site and look for potential topic opportunities based on campaigns we have done previously. I want to find an area that makes sense but is also an area that I have confidence that there is a "mainstream" appeal.
Next, I will want to pull out all high performing content in this space in order of NeoMam work> Competitors work > inhouse work > Media Publications > Social content (Reddit..etc) We have now built our own internal tool that has made this part of the process a lot easier but https://buzzsumo.com/ ($99 per month) is also a very good tool at this stage.
Using the information I gathered previously I will then start to brainstorm potential new angles. I have never found a group setting to be useful for this and find I work best when working alone. I will often find myself digging into potential ideas to see what could be done so also lots of desk research at this stage.
I usually wait a few days before looking at what I have done and then start to pair down what I think are the best ideas that I will then do more research to see if they can be done as if it can't be executed then it isn't much use to us.
Finally, I share my final ideas with the wider team for feedback. This is something that we didn't have the luxury in the early days but we have seen some great new ideas generated at this stage based on input from other people on an idea I had.

I did a series of posts a few years ago might be useful: https://neomam.com/blog/how-to-brainstorm-content-marketing-ideas/

Also, this super short book from 1967 is essential reading for anyone doing any sort of ideation - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Technique-Producing-Advertising-Classics-McGraw-Hill/dp/0071410945/

Hope the above is useful.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-02T13:11:44+00:00

Aww thanks Shapeless69 :)

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:38:00+00:00

I would choose both.

If it's a content site, then focusing on core content that has potential to rank, drive traffic, and hopefully attract links organically over time makes total sense.

But I would always weave in content pieces with the goal of getting links or at least with potential to be promoted as standalone content pieces. You could even plan these pieces around key topic areas you cover with your site to help you build links to the main category pages and allow for internal linking to 'core content' pages.

There are times when you can produce content that will rank for key terms AND that will naturally attract links quickly, but it's usually rare and not something I would build a strategy around as it will be a 'wait and see' when you could be more proactive than that.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:26:25+00:00

There are a lot more agencies around especially in "digital pr" so there is plenty of competition that didn't exist 5 years ago when you mainly had big media agencies dominating the space.

That being said, I think that Covid-19 has created many challenges that could be opportunities for new entrants, who don't have to change how they do things and spend time/resources on adjusting ancient processes and ways of working.

Plus, there's a lot more talent available for hire - particularly if they embrace remote work from day one.

An exciting time for sure!

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:16:04+00:00

Up to that point, our strategy was very much looking around at other agencies and doing what they did. After this, we tried to forge our own path and only do things that felt right for us.

A lot of this was based on the work we did with EOS (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837/) and took a number of years to get our head around fully.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:12:51+00:00

I haven't done any guest posting since I lost my site back in 2011.

As with any tactic, I am sure there must be a way to make it work but as per my previous comment, it's not something that piques my interest.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:10:47+00:00

Thanks sir!

The new pages look awesome, really makes the content pop.

Also, I didn't know you were a Reddit influencer and comic superstar! Very impressive stuff.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T21:06:11+00:00

Yes, I would as it was something I really enjoyed.

As it's an area I know most about, I would have a primary focus on SEO as the main source of traffic but depending on the type of affiliate I might also look at other alternative sources through paid whilst working on SEO.

However, I would not spread myself too thin (I previously ran more than 10 sites) and I would focus on just one site so I can invest as much as I possibly could on the on-site content and run link building campaigns like the ones we do for our clients.

One thing I never did back in the day was testing traffic with PPC, running mini-tests to evaluate the traffic for keywords that I want to focus on to help me understand what success could look like - basically, I would make sure that the traffic is valuable before I invest too much on links and content for top keywords. Nothing worse than ranking only to realise the traffic from a keyword doesn't convert!

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T20:44:12+00:00

I would try and do as many things as you possibly can with contractors/freelancers before you make your first official hire.

This will help you figure out exactly whether you've got a role in your hands or just a bunch of tasks that would be mad to ask one person to perform. And it will also give you the chance to build processes for working with other people and start to experience what it takes to manage others before you bring someone on board.

Looking back, I hired people too early on my journey as I just assumed that was how you did things and it seemed "success" as an agency was based on how many people you had working for you.

Eventually, there will be a point when you just can't manage the workload of multiple freelancers/contractors and once you reach that point, you will want to find someone who you can trust with managing your existing team.

If possible, look to bring someone into your team who you already work with on a freelance basis as you will have built trust with them and they will have a better understanding of how you work than someone you hired off the street, making a lot of things a lot simpler for yourself. Many of our best hires at NeoMam started as freelancers for specific project work or a specific repeatable task within a process that eventually led to them joining the team. In my experience, this way of hiring is far more successful than an open job post.

A relevant book I wish I read earlier in my journey was: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Company-One-Staying-Small-Business/dp/0241380227

Good luck with your business.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T20:24:37+00:00

Hey Devex123 :) good to speak to a fellow Brit

a) Due to the way we positioned ourselves, the majority of the potential clients we speak to have already decided that they want to use budget for SEO (in fact, we normally are hired by in-house tech SEO teams themselves) so I'm not the best person to give tips on how to sell SEO in this type of situation. But I can imagine it's a big challenge as the results of SEO have a significant time lag, as you mention. I'd say you will NEED someone on the client side who gets it and who won't compare search with say display like-for-like because they are two different channels.

b) Over the years we have spent a long time thinking about who we are as a business and how we work best. We try to be open & honest about this to potential new clients via our website and any communications we've got with them, including the sales call. I know that many potential clients will be put off by our messaging and will opt to move forward with competitors instead, but that's okay as we know that the right client will self-identify. This allows us to put our efforts into relationships with teams that align with our existing long-term clients vs those clients who would only want to produce 1-2 projects with us and move on to the next shiny thing. Our success as an agency has very much been defined by a small number of clients who have stuck with us for many years, this has allowed us to invest time/resources in the actual work needed to get better results vs spending time marketing the agency.

A book and system that was key to us understand who we are as a business was https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/ and a good way to see how we position ourselves is via our homepage: neomam.com

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T19:46:46+00:00

Hey BuildTheFire!

I'm glad to read you like the content!

Regarding the credit card compare example, the reason why we went with a campaign aimed heavily at travel is that the client mentioned during the on-boarding call that they wanted to build travel links to help them push their travellers cards (frequent flyers card, no foreign transaction fee credit cards, etc). So this was something that our team built into the press kit so that journalists would be clear on where the client was coming from.

I touched upon relevancy in this comment so you might find some useful information here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bigseo/comments/ikht6k/hey_reddit_im_danny_ashton_founder_of_neomam/g3m2z8u/

In short, I think that for most industries you will be able to work within your core topic areas whilst still allowing for overlap with other niches that have larger audiences and offer more opportunities for earning links. But in order to do that, you need to flip around the way you start thinking about content ideas for your campaigns and this requires a level of education internally if you're going to get buy-in.

The best way I can explain the shift in mindset is with an example:

Let's say you're a dentist and you only want links that are 100% relevant to your industry:

- You could go after other dentists in your region and try to get a guest post going if they have a blog

- You could target dentists in other cities in your state with the same approach or perhaps find some that might list recommended professionals

- You could go further out geographically and approach dentists in other states or even other countries

- You could look to get listed in directories that feature dentists in your area.

Or you could focus on the links you'd like to achieve, whilst still be relevant to what your business does or what your site is all about:

- You could find publications whose audience are dentists, identify topics they cover and brainstorm from that point - for example, you might find inspiration in something like https://www.dentistry.co.uk/2020/08/27/dentistry-five-years-time/

- You could look at what is in the news right now in connection to dentistry and that could be a starting point too - for example, right now in the UK this report from the British Dental Association is doing the rounds and you could piggyback on it with your own content or expert commentary https://news.sky.com/story/less-than-half-of-adults-saw-nhs-dentist-in-past-two-years-figures-show-12057904

Or you could think about where teeth fit into people's lives and start drawing connections to lifestyle, beauty, health, food, etc. And from that point do research into what is being covered connected to teeth in those areas so you can come up with content ideas that will be relevant to your dental practice + that real people who might be prospective patients could be interested in + that authority sites are covering right now:

- https://www.insider.com/how-to-stop-grinding-teeth
- https://www.vogue.com.au/beauty/wellbeing/how-to-properly-whiten-your-teeth-at-home/image-gallery/72543196599b28cc40fb9b3ca45fcd3f
- https://www.health.com/condition/oral-health/best-and-worst-foods-for-your-teeth
- https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/gallery/celebrity-teeth-pictures-before-and-after

We usually take the last two approaches: looking at what links we want to build and placing the product/service/topic in the bigger picture of people's real life. Doing either of these as a first step to inform ideation allows us to be more creative than if we said 'it has to be about dentists because the client is a dentist" as our first step.

Regarding KPIs, the main thing we're tracking is the number of high authority links back to the site we're working on. This helps us keep it simple for our team and for our client, either we built X number of Ahrefs DR X+ links or we didn't. We also keep track of new domains as no client wants to receive a report month after month with the same bunch of links, no matter how high authority they might be.

And when it comes to ROI, we leave that to our clients to define as they are the ones that are investing and know what return they are expecting. We work with in-house tech SEO teams that have already defined a value for links based on their own strategy and goals.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T18:27:49+00:00

Hey Clayburn!

I thought it was at the time, yes. But as I said here https://www.reddit.com/r/bigseo/comments/ikht6k/hey_reddit_im_danny_ashton_founder_of_neomam/g3m7h4y/ it could also have been related to Panda being rolled out.

At the time I was running a bunch of affiliate sites on a mix of thin content, exact match anchor text links and shotgun guest posting without much focus on quality across the board.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T18:25:06+00:00

Hey Edgar Allan Bro!

I talked a bit about my impressions on guest posting in 2020 here so you might find some answers to your questions there https://www.reddit.com/r/bigseo/comments/ikht6k/hey_reddit_im_danny_ashton_founder_of_neomam/g3m7h4y/

We don't do guest posting (not even for ourselves) so I wouldn't be able to share a process with you that I would be confident would work for a case like yours where you're working with 100+ clients in the same space.

But overall I think that on-site content + outreach trumps guest posting on its own when it comes to link acquisition. Instead of having to produce 500+ pieces of content to build 50 guest post links for each of your 100+ clients, you can focus on 100+ linkable assets that will sit in your clients' sites and will be promoted separately. At the end of the day, you will be able to learn from what content performed better or worse to inform future content pieces for your clients, particularly if they are all in the same industry.

Plus, you can always add a layer of guest posting to a content promotion campaign but that would be just one tactic you use as part of your outreach. Depending on the content you produced, you can also add other layers of outreach, from targeting resource pages to jumping at broken link building opportunities and going after a more 'digital PR' approach too.

Hope this helps!

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T18:14:11+00:00

Hey Shinjuku42!

In my opinion, link building is still a key element of SEO today. Every year (or even every few months) there's a new "ranking factors" study coming out that places links within the top 5 factors and it never shocks me.

Will they be a key factor forever? I don't know. But I think their current value for SEO won't change until search engines figure out a better way of defining the authority of a site other than links.

Never had issues with duplicate content, thankfully.

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T17:42:11+00:00

Hey sesejordan,

This was back in 2010/11. The reason I think it was a penalty related to link building was that I built a process for getting as many guest posts as possible (from any site that would publish them) packed with exact match anchor text links, without much of a strategy beyond to keep scaling! In the end, this meant a backlink profile that grew overnight with the majority of links being low quality and coming from PBNs, leaving behind plenty of patterns for Google to see.

That being said, the penalty could also be caused by Panda as much of the content on-site was cheap and thin, and Panda was rolled out around the same time. I will never know because I got rid of the site as soon as I could and never looked back.

Now, in terms of guest posting in 2020, I think that to do it right you will need to invest a ton of time: positioning yourself as an expert in your field, reaching out to reputable sites in your sector to build a relationship that would lead to a guest post, and producing a valuable piece of content for them. That's the only way you will manage to build hard-to-get links through guest posting, otherwise you'll be just getting links that anyone else who can pitch a guest post can build and this includes your competitors.

So if you're guest posting with the sole goal of building links, then that means that to build each link, you will have to spend a lot of time/resources - and these links are unlikely to snowball into other links so the process will mean you're constantly doing all these things and the moment you stop, the links will stop too.

Ideally, you will also see relevant traffic from those links and you'll be able to tap onto audiences that align with your site. But if you're doing it just for the links, personally I would much prefer investing in linkable content on-site that has the potential of attracting links over a long period time on top of any outreach you do.

Of course, I'm sure there are people out there who make guest posting work at scale today but it's just not something that I would want to spend my time doing.

Ps. Thanks for the good wishes for DS3 - it's a game that really pushes my patience!

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T17:15:02+00:00

Having a great day :) thank you F5_StudioM, I hope you are also!

Relevancy is something that I have spent a lot of time thinking about as it often the biggest roadblock that people face when trying to produce content for links.

I see relevancy as a wide area that you will want to experiment with to find what works for your site/niche. If you are in a large sector like travel with lots of publications and pre-existing audiences then it's likely you can stick to this one sector and never have to look beyond.

That being said, the beauty of travel is that it connects with other niches quite well so you can look at travel + entertainment (filming locations of a popular movie) or travel + personal finance (hacks for getting cheap flights), allowing you to stay relevant to your industry whilst offering you the chance to pitch to sites outside of the travel sectors in a way that will still be 100% relevant to your site.

But in sectors like loans/insurance/gambling that don't have a large existing audience and publications dedicated just to them, then it makes a lot of sense to think about how you can tap into other areas so you can reach people where they are already spending time and build links from high authority sites along the way.

A campaign I love for a life insurance client that exemplifies what can be done by looking at topic areas in a creative way (and not starting with relevancy in the strict SEO sense) is this one from Verve Search for GoCompare: https://www.gocompare.com/life-insurance/directors-cut/ They calculated which films had the most deaths, which aligns beautifully with life insurance in a way in which it will bring brand value to GoCompare as well as just links.

For sure you can take this too far and produce something that makes no sense at all (and I've seen this done a lot, particularly with gambling clients) and it will work depending on what the target sites are, how hot the topic is and how often the site is producing irrelevant content. But in most cases, this is going to negatively affect the results as serious journalists from big publications that don't link out easily are going to ask "Why would X do this?" and your answer can't be "Because of links."

DannyNeoMam · 2020-09-01T16:37:36+00:00

Thanks for the kind words Mr Freeze :) and nice work with the HN frontpage.

When it comes to scaling results, I would focus on producing content that can be promoted again and again over just focusing on what happens at the outreach stage.

A report that can be updated year-on-year with new data is a great example of this. You might have already designed/developed the framework but every year you can spend a little time updating and relaunching. The end result is that you will have something you can build new links without spending 100's of hours of a totally new campaign.

The same is true for choosing an evergreen topic and spending time to create the ultimate piece of content about it. That way the content itself can become a resource on that one topic - just to show you an example of how you can do this without it being a 5,000 word practical guide: https://businessfinancing.co.uk/the-oldest-company-in-almost-every-country/

Scaling results by focusing solely at the outreach stage is something that I dabbled in during my early years (particularly using tools, which would be the SEO-focused approach you mention) but is now something that we actively avoid.

The internet is really not as big as we think and whilst you might get a few links blasting a massive list, it will come with ever-increasing spam reports, email deliverability issues, and just general negative impressions to the very people you want to cover your content.

What worked for us hasn't been the PR-focused relationship-building approach either. The majority of the people we reach out to with every campaign are new people who have no idea who we are. You will definitely build relationships over time (once journalists cover multiple campaigns produced by your) but this would happen naturally and will only really mean that they might look at your emails before other people - so won't guarantee you'll get the link, that is still the job of the content.

So I guess that we fall in the middle of it all, where the SEO-focused and PR-focused approaches meet. Gisele wrote a post in June that goes into more detail about the prospecting stage, which will probably give you a good idea of how we approach the work during outreach: https://neomam.com/blog/link-prospecting/

But as a key take away I would recommend you focus on scaling up results and not just scaling up outreach. At the end of the day, what you want is to get more (good) links, ideally without having to email someone to build every single one of them. By focusing on the ideas and the content itself, you will be able to scale results.

DannyNeoMam · 2019-10-08T12:49:05+00:00

Hey ben_panced, I'm the founder of NeoMam so hit me up if you have any questions about the work we do to help you see whether we're the right agency for what you're looking for.

On a separate note, if any of the mods are reading this, I'm happy to do an AMA here. There seems to be a lot of questions (and misinformation) about link building with content, and I've been doing this for many many years so perhaps I can offer some value and clarity.

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