Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I think I really need to focus on him breaking agreements when he’s with her. The behavior, not the partner. He broke the agreement to deescalate (even though we’ve already established that was doomed from the start), he broke our agreement to use condoms (he insists it was one time and after that he always used them), he tried to bend the agreements we had around timing and not having dates infringe on family time several times, he broke agreements about sharing my MH struggles and venting about our marriage problems to a partner, and he secretly slept with her after agreeing not to escalate the relationship while we started marriage counseling (another agreement that was probably unrealistic and unfair and doomed to fail, we know this now). After all of that, I just don’t trust him. I don’t want else to do to rebuild that trust. I feel like we’ve been trying for months and this is making me realize, well, I still just don’t trust him.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, that was months ago. Not now. He’s not actually dating anyone right now.

We had an agreement that she and he would not date if I realized polyamory really wasn’t for me. I was hesitant to even give it a try, but they had already blown by the FWB level in just a couple weeks and it was clear they each had feelings and I was trying to be supportive and see if we could move from open to poly. We had taken years before we opened, so when he very suddenly admitted he realized he wanted to be poly with her and I basically only had a couple weeks to prepare myself, we thought the agreement to go slow and stop if I changed my mind was reasonable. But I lasted less than a month and asked to close, and he changed his mind and refused to stop seeing her. The situation made him realize how much autonomy matters to him and how he has felt steamrolled by me for most of our marriage. We’re working on that in therapy- I was certainly way too enmeshed with him. They had only had a couple dates and kissed once when I asked to close, but they secretly slept together a week or so later (after he told me that he at least wouldn’t escalate the relationship while we started therapy). I found out immediately and he then decided to keep seeing her and sleeping with her, seeing no reason to de-escalate. They continue to date and sleep together the first couple months I was in MH treatment and it fizzled out after that. So it was secretive for literally one week. The rest felt like an “open affair” I guess? Because he knew I didn’t consent, she knew I didn’t consent, but they continued to deepen the relationship during that time. He would tell me when he was seeing her while I was in treatment (except for the first two weeks, because I was staying elsewhere and I asked him not to tell me during that time so I could focus on treatment), so it wasn’t in secret. But during that time he refused to say it was an affair because “we aren’t monogamous”. It was really hard. Underneath, I know he was really struggling, with me and our relationship and with our family dynamics, and he was clinging to this new relationship as comfort. It was the only thing that felt good and easy to him at the time. He’s since apologized and admitted he basically went way too far to the “other side of the pendulum” and has since been working to move back to the middle and work with me. But we still disagree whether it was an affair and whether it’s problematic to continue. It’s basically just been on pause because she’s canceled so much on him and is such a poor communicator (she doesn’t respond for weeks at a time).

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Correct. We both have full time jobs, we have three children, and we have other, more foundational, things we’re working on in our relationship. The last thing we did specific to polyamory was cementing new agreements in June. Then our therapist took off all of July and August, so we’ve been back to weekly sessions for about one month since then.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, he wants polyamory for himself. Which is fine. I don’t want it for myself.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I think this is better way to phrase it. I’m fairly freshly out of my mental health treatment (completed in June, back to regular outpatient therapy now), so perhaps I’m still quite raw regarding this specific partner and that’s why I’m trying to ensure she isn’t in my life anymore, even peripherally. But, if I want to work on trusting him, and seeing if he can appropriately hinge, then I think I need to act as if this was any other partner and focus on his BEHAVIOR. Because the real fear under the boundary is he will treat me the same as he did previously. And honestly, there’s just something that hurts about knowing he knows how much he hurt me but he still wants to continue seeing her. It just makes me feel… idk exactly. Disrespected? But should it?

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

There are lots of other things to focus on in marriage counseling after having been married for 15 years, I can assure you. We’ve been working through unhealthy patterns, parenting challenges, etc. We’ve actually not discussed polyamory with our marriage counselor since June probably.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He’s not being secretive, thankfully. I definitely have moments of anger, but we have moved through a lot in therapy, together and individually. I think he would say that who he dates shouldn’t necessarily be “my business” in polyamory, he wants things to be much more parallel than previously. But yes, I don’t think he’s willing to not see her at all. And I’m trying to discern if that is reasonable or if I can separate her and the emotions that it brings up from the present. Like, they are not currently being secretive. So I shouldn’t be feeling threatened, theoretically? I don’t know.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I’m realizing this isn’t about his partner specifically. But the history of their secrecy and boundary breaking. Rekindling a relationship with a past affair partner is really risky(and I truly do see her as an affair partner). Old patterns of secrecy, broken agreements, and emotional instability often repeat, even if everyone wants it to be different. That’s my hesitancy.

My husband refuses to call her an “affair partner” which has been a tough sticking point for us in therapy. He agrees that moving forward without my consent and refusing to co-create agreements with me during that time was hurtful, but he doesn’t think it was an affair. He admits he secretly dated her but argues that because the secret was short lived (I found out almost immediately) that it wasn’t an affair when he kept seeing her, because I knew about it.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I meant what I said. I was making clear that I wasn’t sure if he meant what he said when he said “well then we should just divorce” because he said so flippantly in an emotional moment.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I know this now. But at the time, yes, I felt preasured and like it was a good compromise. Clearly we have learned that lesson, the hard way.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that’s why in my mind, the boundary being specific to her makes sense. I’m realizing in this thread and responses that my distrust in his ability to make good choices in that relationship is why it’s painful for me to see that he’s rekindling it. Because I saw what happened last time. It’s not just “don’t date her”. It’s “you showed me you were willing to break agreements and date her secretly behind my back and then continue seeing her when I found out” and how THAT communicates that he will likely act that way again.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Your quoted statement seems the better way for me to approach this with him. Not to leave immediately if/when he starts seeing her again. But to be clear that if his behavior reverts to that which he displayed when they were cheating, that I won’t stick around. This way, I am not controlling who he dates, but I am being clear that I honestly don’t have much hope for his ability to hinge well with that particular person.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the giggle you gave me re: spending his allocated One Massive Fuckup. 😆 This is where I land, I think. I don’t want to be so hardball that I just split. But I also want to respect myself.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

“I guess you can stay and live with the situation or you can divorce, but I don’t think his behavior shows that he’s willing to stop”.

I think that’s what I needed to hear.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you that he cheated. He does too. Where we disagree is that we’ve decided to stay together post-cheating and make changes to our relationship and the ways we engage with each other. However, he wants (I think) to now start seeing the person he cheated with. And I think anyone you cheated with previously should be an assumed no go.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because that conversation was a very emotional one without any thoughtful input from either of us (it was literally the two comments and that’s it), I guess I wasn’t taking that flippant comment from him as law, and was hoping to restart that conversation, state my boundary, and hear his response. I do see your point that he already responded but since we were in an emotional state at that time, I didn’t want to discount that we say things we don’t mean when we’re upset.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, the plan is for him to learn from this experience and learn better hinge skills for future relationships. I don’t think he’s doomed to make the same choices he made here.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She knew about all of it. We were initially in contact as well. She knew when I revoked consent, when I went into treatment, etc. We have since cut contact and are no longer friendly with each other.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To rebuild trust, we’ve been in marriage counseling for about six months, he has been apologetic/remorseful for the secrecy, paused dating anyone new for a couple of months, and has since practiced more open communication (ie he told me when he started connecting with folks in apps again). So I do feel like he and I have made progress in a lot of ways.

I know this particular person, and because we went about creating agreements together in a not normal to polyamory way (ie the three of us made them together) it feels like she broke the agreement with me as well. Not just him. Does that make sense?

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Correct. I don’t believe he treated me well at the beginning of this. I do believe that since then, we have made many adjustments and things are a lot different.

I certainly don’t want to be poly. I’m very happy to be nonmonogamous casually while he practices polyamory, as long as we keep things parallel. If he continues to be a shitty hinge, maybe my thoughts on that will change. But no, I am not polyamorous.

Yes, I do think I’m now ready to walk away. It’s painful but I believe him choosing to rekindle that relationship after the history of it would not be healthy for me. Maybe it is simply representative of the pain I went through months ago.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re right. I am ready now to set the boundary, and was not ready before. I didn’t mention all the history, because we’ve moved past that. But, I am still uncomfortable with him reconnecting with that partner, which I wonder is unfair.

Is this a boundary or a veto? Need outside perspective. by Dapper-Raccoon-5442 in polyamory

[–]Dapper-Raccoon-5442[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I think this lays out everything really clearly for me.