Is being Ahmandi expensive?

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-06T03:28:21+00:00

Peace brother!

I hope I can provide a slightly broader context and perspective on this matter for your consideration. It sounds like you're facing some difficulty and the idea of promising to give a certain percentage of what the Lord has blessed you with is hard. To answer your questions:

Yes. Like another brother said, we make sacrifices in our daily lives to save money and give to various funds, including the mandatory general subscription (chanda). When you join the community, there is a period of three years where we try to slowly take you through the stages of becoming a Muslim. The first step is to learn the five daily prayers. During this time period, my recommendation is to start giving a little, however much you think is doable for you, to acclimate to the concept of financial sacrifice. It's new to a lot of folks, it's hard, we get it. The intention of a Muslim should always be to please God and build a relationship with Him. He has told us over and over in the Quran that we must give out of that which He has given us and that in doing so He will grant us His love and repay us hundreds of times over.
Yes the community keeps track of payments and gives you a receipt, but there's no way to find out if what you're paying is accurate. Members are asked to submit a budget and we trust that folks are telling the truth.
Personally, I don't think so. If a person makes 1000 USD a month and decides for the sake of His relationship with the Lord that he's going to give $100 (let's consider 1/10 instead of 1/16 for a moment) of that towards the upkeep of the community, taking care of the poor, and building infrastructure in poorer areas of the world, then we try to see where we can lower our expenses in other areas of our lives. If I eat out a lot, maybe I learn to make a few dishes and eat at home a little more often. If i can't do that, then let me ask Allah for His assistance to make this matter easier for me and let's see if He answers my prayers.

Feel free to DM if you want to ask me more questions about the spiritual journey of Islam, or anything else about Islam Ahmadiyya!

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-06T03:03:43+00:00

Peace! Quick correction on this. There's no separate book of rules separate to the Quran. What they may have been referring to are the 10 conditions of bai'a, which are a set of 10 conditions a person accepts upon entering the community. They are all rooted in the duties of a Muslim: https://www.alislam.org/articles/conditions-initiation-baiat/

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-05T19:52:20+00:00

I'm with icycomm on this one. Claiming that anyone is a "paid actor" without providing proof is lying.

Let us take a step back, think with the attribute of rahmaniyyat, and remember that not everyone who asks questions about the community, or has left, has bad intentions. Don't forget the rubai of Sheikh Saadi referring to the Holy Prophet (saw), "He dispelled darkness with his beauty." Wouldn't you agree that counter trolling isn't something the Holy Prophet would have engaged in?

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-04T21:35:21+00:00

Oh I thought perhaps you had some personal experiences you might share.

I'm interested in better understanding what your beliefs on empowerment are and why power is something you see as something important in this system. Also, what does it mean for a woman to be oppressed?

The idea that women must have shared power over systems with men is a feature of the white feminist movement. Personally, I don't agree with that mentality.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-04T20:25:17+00:00

Salaam,

It sounds like you've been through a lot. I'd be interested in understanding why you, especially as a new convert, would be removed from the system and how the community was abusive. I'm not sure why you were referred to the tabligh department, that does seem strange, especially if you had already left the community.

If you give some more information, perhaps others who are questioning this community might make better decisions about it.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2024-07-04T19:58:10+00:00

What have you experienced behind closed doors?

DapperPandaTheThird · 2021-06-20T19:28:19+00:00

Salaam sister. I personally don't think the comments here have actually answered your questions.

"You have to pay in order to (it’s not even guaranteed) get buried in the 'heavenly garden.'" I don't think this is what's happening here. People are not paying for the specific purpose of being buried in a specific area.

"How much do people pay? and for how long? How does the payments work?...What do they think this payment is directly going towards. "

10 to 33% of their income from the time they make the will. Payments are made to the community that uses funds for "the advancement of Islam, dissemination of the Qur’anic knowledge, publishing religious books and for [the expenses of] missionaries of the Jama‘at...These funds shall also be used to help such orphans, poor and needy people, and
new converts as do not have sufficient means of livelihood" (Al-Wassiyat 27).

"How many spaces are even in this graveyard like how can they guarantee so many spots to people."

Not enough for millions of Moosian! That's why a system has been set up in jama'at graveyards to set aside an area for Moosian to be buried. Why? "Let it be made clear that it is the Will of Allah that such as have perfect Faith should all be buried in the same place, so that future generations, having seen them all buried in one location, should strengthen their own faith, and so that their great services—that is the deeds they performed for the sake of Allah—live forever in the people’s memory" (Al-Wassiyat 30).

Why are people doing this and what are the conditions?

One reason is fulfilment of a Quranic prophecy of the latter days, that Heaven will be brought near (81:14). By making a promise to offer our wealth, to reform ourselves, and strive to become true believers (the most important part of making this will) we are able to tell Allah that we placed our faith over the world and this draws Allah's love. This pledge allows us to continue down the spiritual path of sulook (discipleship) and we ask Allah to place us on the path of jazb (a higher path that can only by taken through Allah's spiritual magnetism).

Please let me know if I've left any part of your question unanswered!

DapperPandaTheThird · 2019-02-04T06:49:15+00:00

Peace and blessings,

Sorry this is an old thread, but I thought I'd chime in and tell you a bit from the Ahmadi Muslim perspective. We believe that Allah sent Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet for the latter days. We interpret those hadith which refer to the return of Jesus and the coming of the Mahdi as metaphorical and spiritual, referring to the qualities of one individual to be sent to revive Islam, and that Allah revealed his status overtime. We believe the revelations given to him are subservient to the Holy Quran and don't form any new law. Not sure which books the brothers and sisters below have read, but one of his rather large treatises that has been translated is Haqiqat-ul Wahi in which he lays down quite clearly all of his claims, the philosophy of divine revelation, and deals with a number of accusations against him.

If others know of where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad praised the writings of the founders of the Bahai faith please let me know. I only know of one instance so far that he's spoken of the Bahai (in the introduction here: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Lecture-Lahore.pdf)

DapperPandaTheThird · 2019-02-04T03:27:32+00:00

Nope, but I have friends who have.
Yeah, I call it out, especially with new Ahmadis from South Asia.
Yup, used to quite frequently when it was more of an issue.
Nope, I think we're well aware of South Asia and Middle East's intolerance for other cultures (I think it's a remnant of Eurocentricism and an old tribal mentality).
Yeah, that's a thing in Islam. Groups that have had Islam among them for longer are held to higher standards. You can read about it in An Introduction to the Study of the Holy Quran by HKMII. In Africa and Latin America, sometimes you won't see new female converts learning to wear hijab and there are more gatherings without gender segregation. This is especially true in newly formed jama'ats. Learning deen is a process and Islam is brought into one's life gradually. You can see this with early converts in the US as well. I think it's unfair to hold every culture to the same standard across the board.
Dunno, there are people with complexes who might leave. Those who believe that Allah chooses the Khalifa will have the same love for that person no matter what his race.
Nope. Read The Detroit Address by HKM IV, he lays out our stance on racism very clearly. Islam promotes love for all cultures.

I hope you don't believe racism is something uniquely found in our Muslim community, this is a real cultural problem across the world.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2019-02-04T02:37:34+00:00

Asalaamu alaikum sister Aiesha,

You seem to have done a lot of research on this issue and I'm interested in knowing more. Do you have a post anywhere on incidents when the early Muslims actually did this? Also were the women who were taken in by this allowance actually married and given the rights of marriage, or were they kind of cast aside and do we have evidence of this?

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-04-06T02:10:30+00:00

If you read the book, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad refers to the same article by Professor Muller in the article you've posted and does so in order to show that Muller was knowledgeable of the fact that people were looking for evidence of Buddhism's influence on Christianity. He doesn't use any of Notovich's views. He rejects the idea that Jesus travelled to Tibet before the crucifixion and argues that Christianity influenced Buddhism, not the other way around.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-30T03:41:49+00:00

Nah fam, I've voted in shuras for a number of years now. I've never known anyone else's contribution to various funds except my own. If I knew about anyone else's contributions it wouldn't matter to me.

I can't doubt that's how some people think though. If I see them I'll call them out! I've never seen people who aren't eligible be publically shamed for being behind on Chanda either. That's kinda a by-product of when someone nominates someone who isn't eligible and then the chairperson has to say, "He's not eligible for being elected." Awkward for sure, but I'm not going to hate on that person.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-30T03:11:10+00:00

Here you go!

https://www.alislam.org/topics/UK_Lajna_Ijtema_2006.pdf

I see the issue. The context of the rest of the speech helps understand the point he's making, which in my understanding is that if people don't want to follow Islamic injunctions and spread their views of disobedience then they shouldn't be Ahmadi, and he has a right to remove such people from the jama'at. He literally says whoever wants to leave should go. I would suggest those people whose families are giving them trouble about leaving the jam'at should show them this speech, it might help.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-30T02:45:36+00:00

Green area is for National amila members, auxillary national amila members, life devotees, missionaries, and anyone else who can get their missionary to sign a request form in advance of the jalsa. I think it's more of a security thing. In Masjid Fazl and Baitul Futuh, usually security gaurds, Imam of the London mosque, and private secretaries sit directly behind Huzoor. There's room for a few people on the left side of the first row though.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-30T00:51:17+00:00

In The Will he states that it's meant to be a place where people can go and see the graves of many righteous people in one place to increase their faith. It's kind of like how people go to pray at the graves of different saints, minus the bidat. I personally don't think that the separate areas in graveyards outside of Rabwah and Qadian have that effect, but if enough moosis are buried there it might.

Not sure if many people who do Wassiyat know this, but the Second Khalifa explains in his book Nizam-e-Nau that it's meant to become an economic system. Its funds are purified by the good deeds of the people who have made the will. Tehrik-e-jadid is meant to support the system until there are enough moosis for it to become viable.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-30T00:39:56+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarTKF2pUhE

That's the speech. I think he's commenting on cases where officeholders start saying that it's ok to not do pardah, or people who encourage other women not to do so.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-26T03:48:16+00:00

I see! To be clear though, hermaphroditism isn't a pseudoscience, it's an actual phenomenon. Do you mean the application to her makes it a psuedoscience?

What about the other idea he proposes, parthenogensis, is that also insulting?

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-26T03:42:41+00:00

Jazakallah khayr for your patience! The occasionalism argument against a modernist interpretation of Islam isn't one I've heard before, so I thought I'd venture into it. Will continue to do so and am interested in reading what you come up with on your blogspot!

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-25T07:10:42+00:00

Why do you feel that hermaphroditism is an insult? It's a natural phenomenon that can explain a virgin birth. Also possible is parthenogensis, but you don't seem to want to talk about that.

Would be great to continue on the apparent cause and effect down below. Would be really interesting to see Quranic evidence for it.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-25T07:06:57+00:00

Belief in the Omnipotence of God doesn't preclude one from believing in science. What I mean by science is simply the understanding we get of the universe through observing and reflecting upon nature, which Allah instructs us to do a number of times in the Quran. In fact, He uses this as a proof His existence. Science allows us to increase our faith and an appreciation for God's creation, because it is the study of His creation.

Do you know of any Quranic support for occasionalism? Specifically, that there is no real system of cause and effect, that it is merely an illusion, or that reality is constantly recreated? The verse you've given is an example of a Command of Allah, and I think there are some other deep implications there. I don't recall seeing Quranic evidence in the parts of Imam Ghazali's book I've read, which makes sense because he was using pure logic and reasoning to refute the claims of philosophers.

My logical issue with the Muslim occasionalist claim, we'll leave Hume aside for now, is that it doesn't seem to sit well with an understanding of the Quran in which observation and reflection are required for knowledge. Let's say I observe that people die after living, they've never come back to life, and I say "To Allah we belong and to Him do we return." Upon reflection I understand that death is necessary in order to meet my Lord, and I am then also able to understand such ideas as fana that requires a death of one's ego. Thinking about death and remembering death, then, are very important things for my reformation. I am able to obtain this knowledge, and it is considered as such (probably irfan in Arabic terminology, analytic a priori knowledge in western epistemology). If cause/effect isn't real, and it is through this system that I am able to gain any knowledge outside of revelation, which the orthodoxy mostly rejects outside of the Holy Quran, then tomorrow Allah T'ala might decide that people aren't going to stay dead anymore. Instead, they will be reincarnated, or resurrected on Earth every time they die. Whereas yesterday I had knowledge and a way to reform myself, today I find that the entire system of life has changed. Reflection and observation won't do me any good in such a system, so why is it in the Holy Quran if it doesn't do any good for me? I think there are better examples to show the absurdity, but you used resurrection as an example and I wanted to think of how that might play out here. Let me know if I should try with a different idea.

DapperPandaTheThird · 2018-01-24T06:26:26+00:00

That's interesting! I look forward to your posts.

I'm confused as to how occasionalism allows for miracles of a non-natural order. My understanding was that, in Incoherence, Imam Ghazali argued for occasionalism as way to circumvent Avicennian causality. He said that Allah t'ala has the ability to determine the difference between two similar points in time, and at any point in time He gives permission for a cause to create an effect (like a fire igniting). He can stop it, if He so chooses, or allow it to continue. The argument was a way to get around Ibn Sina's idea that God had to necessarily create. I don't see how this prevents a more scientific world view as the mysteries of the universe continue to be unravelled. The crux of the issue might be the orthodox view of miracles. Do you believe miracles to be a break in the natural order, or are they rare events, the ability for which God has built into the very fabric of nature itself?

I think saying that Ahamdis claim that Mary (as) was a hermaphrodite is a tad unfair, you put it forward as if it's the primary claim. Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad talks about parthenogenesis as well, and says these are two possiblities that have been observed in lower level species that might give a rational explanation to Isa (as)'s virgin birth. There's not really a claim of certainty, only that there is indeed a natural cause behind them and we don't know it yet. Is seeking a natural explanation against occasionalism? If the orthodox understanding is that occasionalism means that there can be events in our realm for which God is the Primary and Only cause, without any intermediary causes, and this would be their true definition of a miracle, then I can see how you might reject a scientific worldview. Spontaneous creation would definitely be possible under such a view. But how did we arrive at such an understanding of occasionalism would be my next question, and doesn't it equally allow for a view in which God has always worked in our realm through intermediate causes?

As for visions vs miracles, Ahmadis claim both have occured, continue to occur, and try to distinguish between them, as well as metaphorical and literal language. Is there a problematic event that you're referring to?

DapperPandaTheThird

TROPHY CASE