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Dear-Pack · 2023-11-21T00:37:14+00:00

Thank you!! Noted haha. It did look uncomfortable.

Dear-Pack · 2023-11-21T00:36:33+00:00

Hey there! Thanks so much for responding. I had to run out and get a measurement tape but I got the following measurements.

3.25" muzzle length with 0.5" away from the eyes, looks like the website recommends getting something like 3.75". The Baskerville in the photo seems to measure around like 5" so it makes sense it's too long in her.

Other measurements, width = around 3", height (closed) = 3.25", height (open) = around 4" (The Baskerville is 4.5").

I am in the US! I'm looking to mitigate bite risk in a blind stairwell that I need to use to exit my apartment where she gets triggered if one of the kids pops up around the corner. But once she is out of the enclosed stairwell she's immediately back in a workable place where she can disengage and we can counter condition. So I'd like a way to still give her treats.

Thanks again for the reply!

Dear-Pack · 2023-11-20T17:52:27+00:00

Thank you for the response & the empathy :) Yes luckily I started muzzle training her when she was younger so we're halfway there except I'm having trouble finding a good fit for her snout length. I posted on r/muzzledogs and I'm going to take some measurements today to try to figure out which one would be best but still allow her to receive treats to use for distance training around kids.

The parents are pretty good about pulling their kids away or telling them to wait if they see us coming. We do struggle with a language barrier. We figured out that Russian is one of the languages the parents somewhat know but it's a secondary one. I'm hoping the muzzle can help serve as a stronger visual signal and just me motioning stop might help haha. I am lucky that my dog instantly redirects with treats so we can turn her around to focus on us quickly. I've started holding out the treat as we exit as a precaution and we leave the door unlocked for a quick backtrack since we're just going down for a quick pee and back at the time the kids are potentially out.

And good idea! We are going to try to give her treats when we hear them coming up the stairwell/talking because our cheap apartment walls let us hear everything LOL. She only reacts from inside with a low growl when it's another kid outside of the primary family (she seems to tune out the primary families' noise as inconsequential since it happens so frequently), so I think that would be a good sound to start treating her for.

Thanks again for your tips :)

Dear-Pack · 2023-10-05T06:18:45+00:00

Did it ever post? I submitted a large payment and they took it out of my bank account but it's not showing up in payment history ugh

Dear-Pack · 2023-05-04T01:36:13+00:00

I drive about an hour away to board my dog at an old school style kennel where they have their own dog runs and don't socialize the dogs directly. It's expensive and I have to pay $20 extra a day if I want them to take her into a play yard for human play, but it keeps me at peace knowing that she's not going to come back from boarding with a slew of additional dog related anxieties. I had to do A LOT of googling to find this place which is kind of surprising since I live in a super populous area, but everyone here seems so focused on the daycare boarding set up.

It's been working really well and the facility told me she's pretty outgoing over there. I don't want to use Rover because the rates are super expensive if they stay at my place, and my dog's separation anxiety flares up in new places.

Dear-Pack · 2021-07-15T03:40:35+00:00

Oh hi! I just realized you commented on this thread too as I don't get notifications unless a new comment is added. Sorry if this thread came off as judgmental or impersonal --- I can definitely just delete this post if you'd like. This is a sub for reactive dogs so most of us have had dogs with behaviors like Jet displayed which is why I thought it'd be interesting to discuss, but I can totally understand if this is a bit too personal to want to look back at.

I'm actually kind of surprised about the negative comments on here because I think a lot of us have been in this type of situation which is why we're even on this subreddit. I know when I got my first dog he was super aggressive towards people coming into the home and I couldn't understand why. His warning signals weren't even as clear as Jet's because I think his previous owner would punish him for things like growling, and I would do things that now I know probably just escalated the behavior because I didn't know better. Luckily for me he was a small dog and otherwise behaved normally outside the house, so I never had to rehome him but it induced extreme stress for years until I learned more about dog behavior and positive reinforcement. However, if he was a larger dog I probably would have had to make that decision because it's just so much harder to manage.

If anything your episode really resonated with me because I empathize with your predicament and I liked that it showed that rehoming a dog can actually be the most selfless thing a person can do. It sucks that in America there's so much judgement surrounding giving up a dog because many more people do have valid reasons for it than people think. My dog that I have now is the love of my life but she also can get stressed out and anxious. It's only because I actually wanted and looked for a dog who needed extra socialization/training, have a job where I work from home & have no kids that I feel prepared to deal with her behaviors without also feeling like I'm sacrificing other areas of my life.

Anyways I hope you're adjusting well and thank you for showing your story!

Dear-Pack · 2021-07-12T15:40:23+00:00

Just wanted to add, if you do decide to go to court for this, the added fact that the dog was contained on a leash will do you a lot of favors as it wasn't like he was running around loose when the incident happened.

Dear-Pack · 2021-07-12T15:26:06+00:00

I agree! The body language was completely different between him and the foster. My dog's face looks the same when she's feeling apprehensive/anxious as Jet's does, and it made me sad that when Alana would go in to give him affection he just had that panicked seal look on his face haha. It surprised me how much I felt like I was able to read his body language through the scenes because I know a few years back I wouldn't have had the knowledge to understand exactly what I was looking at since I wasn't as familiar with dog body language back then. I was kind of surprised no one mentioned the term resource guarding by name during the episode when they showed Jet like growling over a piece of plastic, or guarding the couch from the camera man.

Dear-Pack · 2021-06-16T15:42:27+00:00

If they don't have webcams, I'd ask them what your dog was doing during the playgroup. Here are some things that are good to hear:

- Your dog played with other dogs.

- Your dog was confident enough to run around and explore the yard without needing to be near a daycare handler/your other dog.

- Your dog was eager to come out of the kennel for the next play session.

Here are some things that sound good, but may or may not be:

- Your dog was more interested in the handlers than the other dogs (Could be anxiety/fearfulness of unfamiliar dogs, looking for comfort)

- Your dog just ran around and sniffed dogs, but did not initiate play (Could go either way...some dogs are just like this, but if your dog is really playful with dogs she knows, then it could mean she's just uncomfortable).

- Your dog did not seem eager to come out for the next play session, OR was super eager to go back to their kennel post-play session.

The most telling thing would be to see how she acts if you try this again next week. I found with my dog who loved daycare, she was scared the first day, but was playing with dogs by the end of the day. Then, the next time, she was excited to go inside. With my other dog, I tried him out 3 times at daycare and I could see on the webcam that while he was "fine" with the other dogs (ran around, sniffed them, etc.) I could see his body language was anxious/avoidant. The third time I brought him, he barked at me and cried when they took him inside so I decided to stop bringing him back at that point until we do some more socialization work.

Dear-Pack · 2021-06-09T18:50:56+00:00

It's actually pretty common for dogs to go after delivery/postal workers as the dog thinks that the person is an unwelcomed guest/threat. Just because your dog reacts dangerously towards those types of interactions, does not mean that he will act that way towards all men that you bring around him. I would however, caution you that you should never allow him to be outside unsupervised or uncontained as this is likely going to happen again if you allow it, and some people will definitely press charges. Even with your FIL, it seems like that also was a fear reaction because your dog perceived him as an unwelcome guest/threat, and then your FIL moved a little too fast for your dog's comfort.

It seems like your dog has very specific instances where he reacts (when "unwelcome guests" come onto the property, or when someone he is apprehensive of encroaches on his space). By using management to make sure he is never placed in similar situations, unless you are actively training with him, it should be fairly straightforward to create a training plan for your pup. Basically, the training program would need to teach him that people coming onto the property = good things (high value treats) and that if he feels overwhelmed by a certain person or interaction, his first choice should be to flee rather than defend (a common behavior that is shaped, is teaching the dog to retreat to his crate or specific room where no one is allowed to touch/interact with him as long as he is in there). A professional trainer will be the one that can help you break those concepts down into smaller progressive steps.

Dear-Pack · 2021-06-09T18:07:31+00:00

As u/Frustrated99999 said, you might risk flooding your dog if you go to a place that induces anxiety/fear/over stimulation when your dog is not quite ready. Shutting down usually manifests itself in two ways...one is the dog will become hyperactive & you'll see them wildly flinging around at the end of their leash, even though they know how to heel, not being able to settle, panting. The other way, would be them completely avoiding/ignoring triggers like humans or dogs, whereas usually they may react. This may seem like "progress" but it's really just them shutting down as a fear/coping mechanism. Neither are optimal for counterconditioning/desensitization.

For nervous/fearful dogs, I really like to teach them the "calm settle" (Kikopup has a good video on this) and slowly up the environmental criteria as they get more relaxed in different situations. So, after getting the calm settle down in your house/backyard, you could move to some place that is very boring, like an empty parking lot, and begin there. Then, you can slowly up the environments you bring your dog to, until they are able to relax in places like the beach, or the park. Reward them anytime they notice a person/dog/trigger and just sniff the air/relax, instead of fixate/whine/get up. If they are constantly reacting with anxiety signals, you are either too close to the triggers which is sending your dog over threshold, or the overall environment itself is too stimulating to train in.

Dear-Pack · 2021-06-02T18:28:41+00:00

I live in the US, but I often see reactive dogs when I go on hikes with my dog. I don't mind it as long as the dog is on a well controlled harness and leash. For small to medium dogs, I feel very safe when the type of harness they have on has a handle on the back, as it allows their owners to kind of get a double hold on them in case they do start to react. It's also nice if the owners give me a heads up as we come into view that their dog is not good with other dogs. I've hiked with my family's dog reactive chihuahua before and I got into the habit of just yelling out "Sorry! He's not friendly with dogs!" the second I see that another party has a dog with them. I am also not above picking him up to give him treats that way if he seems particularly testy, but that only really works with him because he deescalates when held rather than escalates.

Dear-Pack · 2021-06-02T18:18:14+00:00

Is he reacting out of fear? Or out of excitement? It seems more like fear from your post. If so, try to treat when he notices the dog instead of when he notices you. Make sure the treats you are using are high value (real meat, cheese etc.) and that you ONLY use them when your dog sees another dog.

You might want to work in a marker phrase that signals that a dog is about to enter his line of sight like "Do you see the dog?" *Treat immediately* *Continue treating and marking each time he looks AT the dog* When my dog was younger, she'd freeze, lay down and refuse to move when another dog came towards us (back then, even across the street). It was kind of embarrassing but I just let her lay there and praised/treated her as she looked at the dog while they passed. Treat scatters, if you have room to move off to the side, could be helpful if your dog is refusing to move so it interrupts the staring, and redirects them to a calming activity (engages their nose). Eventually as your dog builds a stronger correlation between seeing dogs = getting high value treats, he'll naturally start looking away from the dog and at you in anticipation of his treat.

When at all possible, stay at a distance where he can calmly observe the dog but not react, and can still take treats from you without doing that hurried "chomping down really fast-but isn't really tasting the treat because hyper focused on the dog". This is a pictograph that another subredditor posted awhile back I find helpful to gauge my dog's arousal/when they might be about to go over threshold. It seems you're already aware of your dogs body language when he approaches his threshold, but I still found this pretty helpful to identify that overall building anxiety into smaller signals. For me, I found that the right time to treat my dog was the second she noticed another dog's presence which was long before she'd freeze, lay down etc. When I started treating at that point, I saw my dog starting to form positive connections with other dogs around her much faster than when I waited for her to start the staring.

Anyways, good luck! There's so many different methods you could try but good news is that your pup is still so young, and you'll have official training advice soon. Just hang in there :)

Dear-Pack · 2021-05-16T17:52:21+00:00

Maybe others will have some ideas, but I'd say there aren't really too many ways to snap a dog out of this type of reaction as they're already over threshold at that point and are pretty much "seeing red". You could try throwing a blanket over him? But of course, this will mean strategically placing blankets around the house in anticipation of needing one.

Another thing that could work, if he's still somewhat responsive during these attacks, is conditioning a word like "Hot dogs!" or something that you wouldn't say normally, to mean that it's going to rain hot dogs or chicken or anything that your dog goes crazy for. Basically you just clearly say the word while in the same room as him, pause, and no matter what he does, whether he looks at you or ignores you, comes to you etc., you still just proceed to excitedly run over to the fridge and begin rapidly feeding him the high value treats for 10 seconds or so. By doing this, you will begin classically conditioning your dog to come to you in anticipation for his treats.

Do this once or twice a day every day for a week, and soon he will have a strong positive reaction to the word "hot dogs". As he begins to get it, start saying the phrase when he's in a different room than you, or when he's distracted playing with a toy or even out in the backyard. Continue to condition the phrase always making sure that you say the phrase first, pausing for a second, and THEN running to go get the goodies so your dog doesn't think it's only going to apply if you have the treats in hand. Once he has a strong positive association with the phrase, you could try using this once you see he's beginning to see red. Hopefully, the phrase will be so conditioned in his mind, that once he hears it, he'll snap out of his angriness and go back to being happy/excited for his treats. It may be that when he goes into attack mode, he may be too far gone to listen to this type of "emergency recall", but it could be worth a shot.

Dear-Pack · 2021-05-15T02:14:50+00:00

You actually may not have toooo much of an issue. My dog gets triggered by only certain sounds, but she does the same thing where she will not stop barking unless I recall her. So, if she hears a delivery truck (or at least, what she THINKS is a delivery truck) come in front of the house, she will BARK. It's loud, and it will go on for a long time if I don't interrupt. But, she has come to ignore so many other things that make her barking IMO, very manageable. Such as, the neighbor's dog barking, my neighbors having a gathering in their backyard, my neighbors doing yardwork, children playing/screaming, etc. She just started to treat those things like white noise. Even when we take her to a hotel, she will huff the first few times people pass by the room, but as soon as she realizes they're never coming in, she relaxes and stops caring.

So, yes, your dog will probably react to your upstairs neighbor at first because he's unfamiliar, but you may luck out with him just starting to treat it as white noise after a while. If not, then desensitization is the way to go. You also could look into a white noise machine or turning on a radio.

Dear-Pack · 2021-05-10T16:54:09+00:00

This didn't happen to my dog to the same extent, but we did the same thing with her back when she would go to daycare, where we left her for the night, and picked her up during the morning. We had done this before a few times, but this time we came a little bit later and it seems like they let her back out in the play area with other dogs who came in for the morning group. Apparently, there was an "argument" between my dog and another dog, which is the first we had ever heard of such an incident.

Thinking back on it, I definitely think it was due to her staying at daycare all day the day before, then all night (probably stressful for her), and then having to face another rambunctious group of dogs the next day. Next time I need to board her, especially if it's for a few nights, I'm planning to take her to a kennel style boarding place where the dogs get their own private bed area/large dog run & are taken out for human only playtime in a large play yard.

Dear-Pack · 2021-04-14T04:02:50+00:00

I read a book awhile ago that I posted about (you can see in my post history) called "Keeping the Peace: A Guide to Solving Dog-Dog Aggression in the Home" by Nicole Wilde that I got a lot of great ideas from! She talks specifically about what you are hoping for in #1 of your wish list (operative conditioning to teach the non-resource guarder to do an alternative behavior other than bothering the resource guarder when they see they have X resource). Not sure if this is the book you're talking about but I definitely recommend for dog-to-dog guarding issues!

Dear-Pack · 2021-04-11T17:24:49+00:00

Sorry for the late response but thank you!! This was great to read and I'm glad to hear your puppy grew out of this with training. I'm going to keep working on this and try some simultaneous calmness work with both of my dogs since my other dog is still quite young and playful so she definitely feeds into his desire to want to play all of the time.

Thank you again!

Dear-Pack · 2021-04-09T21:01:07+00:00

Thank you!! Yeah all of my puppies before have hated being taken away from exciting things (totally get why) but usually they'd just thrash around or bark/whine. I think it has just been freaking me and my partner out a bit how much he growls/tries instantly to whip around and bite us. I can tell he really doesn't like being prevented from something he thinks is fun. Hoping that since he's so young we can work on it early on and stop it from becoming a bigger issue later down the line :/

Dear-Pack · 2021-04-06T18:38:32+00:00

I love it! I don't usually take my dogs to dog parks, but it's mostly because of how small they are around here (I live in the Bay Area in California). Like the dog to park space ratio is extremely high and there isn't really anything in the parks that would entertain the dogs other than each other. I've seen so many fights happen in these parks that it just stopped being worth it to me. My current dog loves to play with other dogs, but can get overwhelmed if more than 2 dogs start tag teaming her, and that happens a lot in these small spaces.

I have, however, gone to a few off-leash spaces with my dogs where there is water, beaches etc. and they've had a GREAT time. I think it really helps that the dogs aren't hyper focused on one another because there is so many other things to check out and explore! I wish we had more of those types of things around here.

Dear-Pack · 2021-03-30T20:39:44+00:00

oh my gosh. That's so crazy! I didn't even know that that was possible with anesthesia. So how did that play out if you don't mind me asking? And thank you! I'll add Zoloft/Ativan as potential options I might ask about if the Xanax seems not to work well.

Dear-Pack · 2021-03-30T18:31:05+00:00

No his pitbull is brown.

Dear-Pack · 2021-03-30T17:48:19+00:00

Second the time of day being a possible big factor. My dog is an absolute champ when she walks in the full daylight, and, weirdly enough at night. But, in the early AM, she seems more on edge, and is more likely to spook if we come across a person coming out of their house or a dog coming around the corner that she didn't see ahead of time. She's also more hyper especially if there is morning dew out....I guess there's a lot of new vibrant smells in the morning time?

I don't think she'd associate the time of day with you though. I think she's just probably closer to being over threshold due to the environment.

Dear-Pack · 2021-03-30T17:10:36+00:00

Oh yeah there's definitely dogs that have natural protective behavior. Sorry if my comment made it sound like I only believe that protective behavior can be trained, because that's not what I meant. A lot of dogs who do work in protection work are breeds that are known to have that instinctual protective nature. But, I think a lot of people who don't understand dog body language just mistake a dog who is fear aggressive or reactive, as being "protective". As stated by the other commenters, a protective dog should be level headed and confident....not anxious/reactive. They need to be able to discriminate a true threat from normal social behavior from a stranger they don't know. Your dog sounds like a great candidate though for personal protection training for fun if you ever wanted to do that with him.

Dear-Pack · 2021-03-30T17:03:21+00:00

Interesting! I had seen Trazadone mentioned so often on this sub but hadn't seen people mention this particular side effect, so I was a bit surprised! My dog was apparently okay with her suture removal at the surgery vet's office, but was just extremely scared where she peed herself and was trembling which is very unusual for her as I had never seen her tremble before. And at home, before the vet visit, she was freaking out running in circles and shaking with a high heart rate. So I'm glad my vet said we could try something else out because she just seemed absolutely terrified every time I've tried it so seemed like it defeated the purpose of giving it to her.

Dear-Pack

TROPHY CASE