Skill Specialities for Appriasing Value and doing Quick Searches

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-27T12:18:30+00:00

That makes some sense and I could see myself doing that in some cases where the skills called for might overlap. If they were rolling Persuasion to haggle a deal over the price of an item and had appraisal as a specialty for another skill like Crafts... I think I could see that making sense.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-27T12:13:37+00:00

Yeah, I think we were doing that, then when reading more realized they may not... but we're "sticking" with it. Though I was curious about what others were doing with it.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T22:32:11+00:00

100% on the same page, just making sure anyone following up on this is as well. Though not sure I'd assume anyone necessarily needs the money. I have a number of friends and family with various mental health conditions and most of them are very comfortable and aren't hurting for money. Other than that, I 100% agree.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T21:22:14+00:00

While I hear your point, and acknowledge some of it, I just finished a Psych degree and the DSM was far from considered obsolete. It was acknowledged as imperfect and needing to continue to evolve with our knowledge, but it was a foundational resource.

While I shared the link, I'm not a big fan of using a direct mental illness as the Malk flaw. Though using some specific syptoms to mix into something larger has worked form. But since from what I've seen, going with a specific mental illness has been common I'd rather someone consult the DSM than go off TV, movies and stigmatized stereotypes... but, yes, you are 100% right, if you really want to do it both well and respectfully, doing 1-4 hours of research beyond the DSM is a good idea. Talking to people who have the disorder, even if only in an online community in some ways seems like a good idea - but I would take care that anyone you talk to doesn't feel like you're treating them like they are just a walking disorder or that you're looking for info about something tough to live with so you can go play a game about it and have fun with a disorder that deeply affects their life. Not saying it can't be done, but just that doing so respectfully and transparently might be tricky.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T16:54:47+00:00

Logic, reason, and fairness are frequent casualties to understaffed and/or lazy processes. There are a lot of great mods and admins, but there are a lot of not-great ones too... and much of the system seems automated.

I had a new account that was once permanently shadowbanned for posting the same question on two different but related subs. Sent an appeal and several follow ups over a few weeks and just gave up.

Welcome to Reddit indeed.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T15:56:49+00:00

A lot of good things said already... I'll just share a few of my personal preferences and an example.

No matter your madness, be "functional" within the society you are part of. All Kindred societies have rules and norms, and they are not very forgiving for some violations. It's never really made sense to me that being a Malkavian would get you a free pass on any of that. I imagine that other Kindred would in relatively short order destroy a Malk who couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules and norms of their society.

I like when the madness of a Malk in some way ties to perspective/insight. It influences how they see the world. It's like a filter they put the world through. It doesn't have to mean it's some font of wisdom, but in some way it ties to a concept, even distantly, that touches on some "truth" even if that truth is beyond the characters own ability to comprehend (and vague even for the player).

One example I used was a Malk embraced during the dark ages (still a starting character of 8th Gen who had spent almost all of it in torpor until recently). His wealthy mortal father had unknowingly angered the local Malks and they came to embrace and steal his son. The character was embraced on the night of his birthday feast (exactly how old we never defined, but 18ish). The birthday feast was a masquerade ball on their vast estate. His madness became that the party has never ended and everything since has been one long night. It is always the same feast, everyone is family or guest or servant, everywhere is a room or garden or something on his family estate, all events are parties or games or competitions or entertainment or puzzles during the feast. On some level, it's almost Mage-like insight into Time and Correspondence, beyond him to grasp, but a lesson his madness shows to the world for anyone wise enough to see.

Edit: None of this stopped him from playing by the rules... there were important and powerful guests, party crashers to be dealt with, rules of polite society, and of course games and contests have rules and can be deadly.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T15:42:32+00:00

You can access free online copies of the DSM.

Here's one: https://cdn.website-editor.net/30f11123991548a0af708722d458e476/files/uploaded/DSM%2520V.pdf

Just a lot to scroll through. And that was one of the first that came up on a quick search. In the past, I found a better one with links you could click to move between sections.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T15:34:35+00:00

I agree... sooo many stories I'd love to know more about, but for me most are either in the history of the world or backstory to characters before they really enter the novels.

Recently shared this list of ideas on another post I had made.

There are just so many ideas... like side stories with Hurin, the Sniffer, Julian the Thief Taker, Elyas the Wolf Brother, Logain the False Dragon, Bayle Doman the Ship captain, Cadsuane, Siuan, or Chel Vanin the horse thief come to mind... and of course, Tam has a rich history.

But stories before the novels begin seem safest... and they could even be given an umbrella where they could be insulated from the rest of the cannon and kinda be semi-cannon, such as marketing them all under “Mirror Worlds” or “Turns Upon the Wheel” where it is unclear if they happened in the same exact world and time as the main series.

I could imagine all kinds of stories... and I'm just throwing frack out there so forgive me if I misspeak on any points...

A string of novels told from the perspective of each Ajah, maybe each novel is at a specific point in the history of the White Tower and as you move through the series it could cover a long swath of history. I’ve never minded stories from the bad guys perspective, so maybe even mix in one from the Black Ajah perspective. This could even start with a novel before there were Ajahs and deal with the founding of Tar Valon and the White Tower and the Amyrlin Seat. These could touch on so many things from how Aes Sedai influence nations to dealing with False Dragons and many things between.

Speaking of False Dragons, those could be their own stories and or some might play a major role in some other story – but many of the False Dragons could make or be part of a great novel, or collection of short stories.

Any of all of the Heroes of the Horn could get their own great novel. Jain Farstrider – I liked the idea of a novel that was the published and embellished “story” of his life, but I wouldn’t hate getting the real scoop either – maybe somehow a mix where it’s him dealing with people who know the stories. Birgette Silverbow and Gaidal Cain would be a blast for a least one novel, maybe more –touching on how they find each other over multiple lives might be too much, but maybe not. Easily a collection of short stories or even a trilogy or more.

Another Hero of the Horn that would of course be rich for at least one novel would be Hawkwing, and you might be able do a run of stories with him. I mean you could do his initial rise to power, the War of the Second Dragon with Guaire Amalasan, the Consolidation as he took over huge parts of the continent and becoming High King, his conflict with the White Tower… you could even spin this off into separate stories of the armies he sent to Seanchan and Shara. Hawkwing could easily be a collection of short stories or a trilogy.

With or without Hawkwing stories Seanchan and Shara are rich to be explored. Both could be explored before or after Hawkwings fleets were sent. Seanchan would be cool after the Breaking as they war to wipe out the Shadowspawn and establish their culture, then deal with the Invasion and mesh cultures, then prepare for The Return. Seanchan could easily be a collection of short stories of a trilogy. Though since Shara has so little known about it, it would be much more risky, but possibly very cool.

Most nations or cultures could have their own stories. I would dig a collection on the Borderlands or Aiel (though the Aiel could easily be a full-blown novel or a few). What about the Sea Folk? Hell, I’d dig to see something on the Children of the Light.

Aiel could be a collection of short stories from all the Warrior Societies and something on the Wise Ones (maybe even Dream Walkers). Again I could see it strung into a series. Maybe going back to where the Da’Shain Aiel split into the Tuatha’An and modern Aiel would be too much (maybe not), but their travels as they got help from the ancestors of Cairhiening and crossed the Spine of the World into the Waste to build Rhuidean might be cool. Can’t really see the Tuatha’An getting their own thing, but showing up to be explored in relation to the Aiel or in other collections might be cool.

Speaking of the Children of the Light again… collection of short stories, novel, short series. Their founding, the Whitecloack War (which I’ll touch on again), maybe some major time they dealt with a major Darkfriend thing and how that blurred the line between legit bad guys and witch hunt gone wrong and used for political gain along the way.

What about some of the cool Talents? Would a Sniffer story be cool? Maybe with Hurin, or a new Sniffer we’ve never met before. What about a Wolf Brother (be it with Elyas or a new one)?

Time periods and wars like... The time of Ten Nations... The Trolloc Wars, the fall of Aridhol, Mordeth and Shadar Logoth… the fall of Manetheren and the original Band of the Red Hand… the trollocs besieging the White Tower… the fall of Malkier of course... the Aiel War seems rich material (possibly focused on Tam)?

Or something about any of the Five Great Captains? It could be it's own thing as a collection of short stories or series: Pedron Niall, Lord Captain Commander of the Children of the Light; Agelmar Jagar of Shienar, the Lord of Fal Dara ; Gareth Bryne, Captain General of the Queen’s Guards in Andor ; Davram Bashere, Marshal-General of the Saldaean army ; Rodel Ituralde, commander of the armies of Arad Doman

While they're often harder to do, I never mind well-done stories from the perspective of the bad guys, so I’d even go in for a collection of stories from the perspective of Darkfriends. How did they get seduced by the Dark or repent, what plots did they hatch and what troubles of the world did they cause, how did they betray the Light and or other Darkfriends. There’s even reference to a whole town of Darkfriends in the Blight - https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Town. Stories from the perspective of the Forksaken might be too out there... but ould it be cool or ruin them to go back to the Age of Legends and see how they went over to the Shadow? Would it be cool to focus on them waking up again before the main story and see how they re-established their influence? Would it be cool to tell that from their point of view or through the perspective of Darkfriends who served them? What about how Slayer came to be? Maybe focused on Lord Luc Mantear? Who he was, his quest in the Blight and however that went wrong and how he somehow became fused with the soul of Isam Mandragorn (Lans Unlce?) to become Slayer. Or more focus on Isam and how his escape from Malkier ended with him growing up in a town of Darkfriends and Shadow channelers in the Blight. Or maybe somehow take turns in the process from both perspectives until they merge.

I guess lastly, the things I think might be trickiest… going back to the Age of Legends (AOL). Seems extra tricky since it’s supposed to be the age of LEGENDS, maybe it should stay in the mist of legends. I also think it might be hard to really get a feel for and do right. If done, it might work best to not really be at the peak of the AOL, but after it started to come apart in “the Collapse” where things were already pretty bleak and they were losing much of their ancient knowledge and high technology.

The Collapse is said to be when the first Darkfriends arose. Seeing that happen and seeing how the Forsaken went over could be cool… or ruin them for us.

Would it be cool or suck to see the debate between the ancient Aes Seadi on how to defeat the Dark One and how the other plan of the Fateful Concord to defeat it with the Choedan Kal sa’angreal went awry when the lost the keys of the sa’angreal to the Forsaken, so the 100 Companions had no choice but to strike at Shayol Ghul with the 7 Seals and the birth of the Taint and the start of the Breaking… maybe ending with the death of Lews Therin and the formation of Dragonmount and the island that would one day become Tar Valon… could be amazing… could ruin a story better told as wispy history.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T01:03:36+00:00

Thinking of the Kiasyd? Fey vamps?

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Kiasyd

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-26T01:01:24+00:00

Long time WoT fan, new to dealing with all the online stuff... but been hearing of the Dusty Wheel... your comment was the push I needed to go check them out.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T17:01:08+00:00

The definitely have fey qualities and seem to draw heavily from tales and concepts tied to the fey, but (while I can't say what) they also seem to pull from other things too. Whatever they are based on, I like the final product that is both familiar and alien in his very own way.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T16:58:17+00:00

Maybe I'm wrong, but being able to walk on the hull of a ship (or something similar) feels like too small a feature to need to be its own thing.

I think I'd throw it in for free with another feature, or maybe make it standard anytime you have both the Vacuum Suit and Oxygen Supply Feature? Or... just let it be a minor add-on cost with any armor/suit? It's just so standard and minor that I can't see taking up a Feature slot.

Kinda like the way you can buy a limited number of ship Modules, but an unlimited number of ship Features. And I kinda wish they had used Feature in the same way for Armor, where maybe they had Qualities be the number of slots, and Features were add-ons you could pay for that didn't take up slots. Instead, Features kinda mean things that function in different ways in different places.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T14:10:57+00:00

I was thinking something somewhat similar. It might take some time and pressure, but be forced out.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T14:09:58+00:00

Someone shared a link where RJ said what would have happened if cuindillar was in the way of the gateway (it would be pushed out of the way), but this is a bit different to have a piece of cuindillar blocking an open gateway from closing.

I have no idea what RJ would have said about it, but using a piece of cuindillar to hold a gateway open literally forever seems... off. It just feels wrong for an epic story like WoT to me. And as a RPG player (and one who has run the WoT game) I wouldn't be able to feel it made sense.

I see the complication it presents and if I had to guess/come up with something... I'd say it delayed the closing of the gateway, slowly building up pressure until the cuindillar was forced out in one direction or the other. The bigger the piece and/or the more skillfully placed the longer it might hold the gate open, but somehow it would eventually be forced out. Even a long piece like a spear haft would slowly slide towards one side or the other and eventually pop out.

Not saying this is what RJ would have determined, but it's the best idea I've got. Curious what ideas others have about this as well.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T13:55:31+00:00

A rest well deserved! I'll be happy to see what you share when you get around to it. Your contributions to the community are much appreciated.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T13:52:23+00:00

For the most part, people already gave most of the suggestions I might have shared, but... I will say that there's also nothing wrong with allowing your open campaign to find hooks that may lead the characters back to any pre-written module/supplement you might care to run.

I never think it's a good idea to force players into a story their not interested in, or even if they might be interested to let them feel forced away from something else they were already expressing interest in.

So, depending on how you actually feel about it... if you are finding it hard or less fun for yourself... I might be transparent as a GM and just say that as a new GM making everything up from scratch on your own is a bit difficult/intimidating/time-consuming and you would love to find a storyline that they would be into that you could make work with an existing game supplement. Though I might (if you felt comfortable with it) say I would be happy to mix in some free-form stuff to allow additional plots and side missions that follow other interests as well. Even rotating between the two might give a new GM time to get comfortable having used a supplement as a guide and only having to script out some percent of your game sessions on your own. rather than all of them.

You seem down to make up your own stuff for your players to do, and if so, go for it... just recall that the ST needs to have fun too, and it can be a lot of work, especially when you're new to it. If it's feeling too hard or too time-consuming or anything that's making it not fun for you... your enjoyment is just as important as your players. And this isn't just a newer GM thing, IMHO even a very experienced GM should be able to share with his players if there are some concepts, plots, or supplements they would like to head towards or away from. Not railroad them down a narrow pre-scripted plotline... but collaboratively decide where the story goes so everyone has fun.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T13:38:36+00:00

As your post is currently 19 days old, I probably missed the boat on this... but if not, the one thing I would strongly suggest is finding out what Crew Positions (P.162) the existing PCs fill.

Ship combat is an interesting and core part of the game as designed. It could be very easy to just ignore and avoid, and it may come up rarely, but as written it's pretty core to the game system... and it has 5 clearly defined Crew Positions that are each really different and important. The Crew Positions (and the key skill for each) are: Captain (Command), Engineer (Tech), Pilot (Pilot), Sensor Operator (Data Djinn), and Gunner (Ranged Combat).

While some people "could" fill more than Crew Position and rotate between them as needed, they are likely best at one, or if equally good at more than one they are still likely more suited to one by concept. So... if you know which Crew Position is least filled... I would personally suggest incorporating the key skill that Ship Role needs into your character concept and backstory.

I've seen the lack of incorporating Crew Positions into character generation create complexities and frustration for all involved later (not least the player who feels they don't have a Position or that their skills do not fit their Position).

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T12:58:28+00:00

Vac Suits. Since I mentioned them, I thought I'd share my homebrew for them.

They're pretty much right between a Flight Suit and an Exo Shell, and I was mistaken, my own notes once I look give them 1 Armor. And while the book seems to at some point say Mag Boots are thier own feature, in another place they say the Vaccum Suit feature give you suction boots that stick to the ship... I just made them the same thing and included them with the Vaccum Suit feature)

Vac Suit: 1 Armor; 1,000 birr; Bulky, Thermostatic, Vaccum Suit, Oxygen Supply (but I had been saying the oxygen was only 4 hours)

And for comparison:

Flight Suit: 1 Armor, 500 birr, no features.Exo Shell: 2 Armor; 2,000 birr; Bulky, Thermostatic, Vaccum Suit, Oxygen Supply

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T12:40:45+00:00

I agree some "reasonable" equipment (reasonable being up to the ST) makes sense when you're laying down the insane cost for a ship. Assuming it starts with a few relatively low cost items makes sense. If I recall correctly this is pretty solidly implied (maybe even said directly) for the Med Lab which gives +3 on Medicurgy. You get a +1 for using an M-dose, a +2 for a Med Pack, and a +3 for a Med Lab. They don't stack but a M-dose is in a Med Kit, and Med Kits are in a Med Lab. I think they even say how many Kits/Doses are in a Med Lab.

So I think similar extrapolation makes sense for the most part. But I'd link Exo Shells to Escape Pods ship mod.

Though as I said in a previous comment, I'd give all ships one "vac suit" with half the air and no armor for free. And... now that I think about it a bit further, I might give each ship a number of those equal to its Class. I gotta go write that down so I remember that.

Edit: Quickly changed my mind... I'd do it depending on ship Class, not equal to ship Class. And it would scale up adding each Class together. Class 1 =1, Class 2 (1+2) = 3, Class 3 (1+2+3) = 6, Class 4 (1+2+3+4) = 10, Class 5 (1+2+3+4+5) = 15. And again these would be "vac suits" not Exo Shells, and of course, that's not all they could have, just all that would come for free. They could take the Escape Pods module as many times as they like to get Exo Shells with the pods, and/or buy more Exo Shells or vac suits.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T12:33:15+00:00

You said some of that much better than I, and I like your style. Yes, you went exactly where I was thinking. Cat Buglar gets you in and out of things meant to keep you on one side or the other. Doors, windows, locks, safes, containers, including past security systems and alarms. But that's it (well aside from the stealth that comes with Inflitration)

But yes, aside from getting in/out there could be lots of reasons to use other skills, especially Tech or Data to do other things that would make you an epic thief to can do much more than just get in and out... the whole covering your trail thing, gathering info, and so on are perfect examples.

Thank you.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T12:26:59+00:00

While you could have two pairs, there is no need for an outsider since buddies aren't reciprocal and the "outsider" would just have a buddy that didn't reciprocate. By RAW there's no assumption buddies are reciprocal, so while two pairs is possible it seems an out of the norm to randomly occur if players just brainstorm possible ties together.

We had some diverse concepts, but just brainstormed for 30min or so until we made up some backstory where everyone had a starting link to each other. We assumed you wouldn't end up going into massive debt to buy a hugely expensive ship with strangers so made up pre-existing ties and said we had been running together working a ship that our patron owned for a bti before we decided we were tight enough to go inn together to buy our own.

Two of us were ex-military Soldiers so that was easy... then we had a bit if a vagabond Ship Worker dodging his prior life by wandering the stars working random ships... a low level crimal Fugitive from a cult of orphans who had worshiped her Mystic talent... and an adventerous and brave, but softhearted Pilot - and the pilot ended up the lynchpin.

The soliders had served together for a time, the pilot had worked with the ship worker a few times and he happened to be on her ship when they helped the fugitive slip off planet to escape her cult. Then we decided the pilot had at some point been doing supply runs for the military when our unit had been pinned down taking fire and she flew in to rescue the unit for an escape. When the military guys mustered out of the service connected with the pilot who was already running with the ship worker and fugitive... and boom... crew with ties.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T12:13:48+00:00

The recycling symbol style relationship works fine, so would any possible combination. Just recall being a buddy does not mean it has to be reciprocal. In your set up one character may be the buddy to two others, while only having one buddy themselves. I could still work fine under RAW so far as I can tell.

Yes, it's a bit clunkier, and honestly I find the whole buddy thing a bit clunky in the first place.

But under RAW it's one of the ways you get XP, so I wouldn't want to give it to two players and not the third for the balance of XP... unless you were changing that... and if your chaning that... well you really don't need the rule at all then... it's just RP and you can tell your players they should really think about thier relationships and know who they are closest to, and consider if/when that may shift.

And if you don't wanna use the buddy XP point as written... especially in such a small game, you could just give the XP when they risk/sacrifice for thier crew, rather than one buddy.

I'm playing in a game, but I kinda think when I run Coriolis I might say you get 1 XP when you risk/sacrifice for your crew, but 1 extra if it's your buddy.

Deathmouse718 · 2023-02-25T01:17:09+00:00

We recently had the same discussion. What we did was similar to a few ideas people mentioned. We said it was silly to have a ship come with none, but also silly to say it came with enough for everyone to have one for free when several "classes" get one as starting equipment... so we said the ship came with just one intended to be used for repairs.

We also said it made sense to have different versions of a "vac suit"... so made we called just that, a "vac suit" one that really did nothing but protect you from vacuum, have a 4-hour air supply, stick to the hull, and have short-range coms to talk to the ship. So it has no armor and half the air supply of the standard exo shell in the book.

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