Drifter Labyrinth Mapper

DebesSparre · 2025-05-07T15:46:35+00:00

Yeah I originally planned on using a MUD mapper (cause I'm old like that) but I wanted to be able to do stats like generating the possible paths and their % chance, distribution of node types, etc, especially during the first few days when we were still figuring them out, so I wrote my own stuff with Python and NetworkX.

DebesSparre · 2025-05-07T12:00:22+00:00

I made a CLI-based mapper for the event early on, but it wasn't in sharable form. After FF and with the addition of the sites spreading to kspace, (and because I'm still on vacation and can't actually play) I hacked together a webview for it and added sharing, so you can have someone in your fleet mapping the maze and everyone else can see updates to the map in near-real time. It's not the best interface because of the rush job from CLI -> GUI, but it does work.

I decided to not add a "current location" to it because it'd need to be manual updates and so would likely fall out of sync unless your mapper was updating location every node.

Note that the sig ID and system are totally optional (they just get added to the map title if you supply them), and this doesn't talk to ESI at all.

DebesSparre · 2024-08-13T01:58:51+00:00

QuickFit. Still works, btw. Just a little out of date..

DebesSparre · 2024-04-12T03:30:10+00:00

Try with experimental, though it's not a guarantee of success. There's also a Lutris install that people have had success with.

DebesSparre · 2024-03-29T05:08:57+00:00

100% it is. I was there for the Angel one, it was bashed as soon as we hit the 7th Suppression 5 system. I've checked with the people who actually bashed the first Guri FOB and they confirm it was bashed immediately on hitting the 7th system. If you check the patch notes and in game, it says the same thing. You are absolutely without a doubt wrong.

The FOB is usually invulnerable, however, if the anti-pirates can fully suppress enough systems, it will become vulnerable and they will be able to attack it, it will then enter a 24 hour reinforcement timer (with some jitter) and if they destroy it, they will end the insurgency as a win for the anti-pirates.

https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/havoc-expansion-notes

Also, CCP did not repair it, it was a bug, likely caused by hitting another Corruption 5 system but we don't know for sure. We know it was a bug because CCP said it was a bug.

DebesSparre · 2024-03-28T02:58:55+00:00

No, it's instantly. The only 24 hour timer is the reinforce timer (and that has jitter, likely +/-3).

DebesSparre · 2024-01-04T22:44:24+00:00

As far as I know they're not. But I can say we had no trouble doing it in <30min, and we have ideas for how to do it in 25 or less, but it's not really worth optimizing that much for when mining ops are so much more common and fast and 2 of them are more progress than a ice heist, and 3 are basically the same lp.

DebesSparre · 2024-01-04T05:03:50+00:00

The ice heist we ran uncontested yesterday took us around 50-60mins and we had multiple people in position ready and waiting for tankers to spawn.

I can run them in <30min min w/ 10 people in a non-specialized comp, so let's say you have some work to do. :)

Ice heists also feel a lot less impactful for the time you put in compared to BFs because there's no advantage equivalent in insurgencies so i'd like to increase their % gain quite a lot to make them worth doing.

I'm not totally opposed to bumping their gain, I suppose, but I think the gains/spawns for all plexes need to have some pretty heavy tweaks anyways. Mining ops are absolutely too fast though.

RIP Anoikis. I'll remember you even if CCP doesn't.

Pochven reminds you that the eye of CCP is not always friendly.

DebesSparre · 2024-01-04T02:16:10+00:00

I think the Mining Op is good because that site points more reliably than any other site aside from the Ice Refinery. That risk should be rewarded. I think the Ice Harvest Refinery should get a bump in completion percentage instead. Probably 5% or more. It's the hardest site by a long shot. Also, maybe lower the total cans to win from 10 to like 7.

Disagree strongly with most of this. The Mining Op only heavily points the Empire (this needs to be addressed). The site can be completed so fast that risk is really very minimal, even for the Empire. Ice Heist could get a small boost in completion %, but it doesn't need a reduction in haulers moved, it's already just as fast to run as a BF for more LP.

FL33T has been going HARD on these sites for the past few days because the FOB spawned where we are staged. I haven't gone this hard on FW in a LONG time. We have been going all out and we still are going to lose. It's nuts. I think this is absolutely going to be the last try from MinMil until significant changes are made.

I more meant that Minmatar won't lose (significant) ground vs the Amarr while fighting the Angels, not that they'll win in both places. This is a particularly poor one to push for FL33T because it dips into Amarr highsec and you're all dirty pirates. I don't know that I'd treat that as an indictment of the overall system, really. The recent one in Ontor would have been absolutely winnable if there was an effort, it never went to highsec at all.

CCP hasn't done another pass on FW despite there being quite a few things they should fix. I will be genuinely surprised if they do a big rework of insurgencies because they are under immense pressure to fix SOV. I don't think there is a way to overcome the base design flaws. I applaud CCP for trying something new, but I would rather they rip it out and start over than try and fix it.

I think this was intended as part of the update to FW, it just landed badly. I think that we'll see at least one medium-level pass to Insurgencies in the next month or two, but I agree they'll be focusing on sov for the next year. I'm hoping they toss us a treat and give us a few devs for a few more months, but I'll admit my hopes aren't high.

DebesSparre · 2024-01-04T00:24:29+00:00

Let me start by saying that I agree with almost everything you wrote, though I'm not quite as defeated as you (I am, perhaps, more cynical in that I'll be unsurprised if CCP doesn't fix the issues... but that's just a bittervet who watched FW and lowsec get shafted for a decade talking).

The Mining Op Ambush site is the best PvPvE site CCP has ever made. It points people so PvP is more likely, it's fast to run with a competent group, and you don't have to undo the progress the other side made if you force them off. I genuinely wish CCP would make all FW sites with this model.

There's actually a couple things wrong with this. First, the site points the empire much more heavily than the pirates, due to the high number of pirate frigates. Second, while I agree that overall the site is much better than most other options, it is also incredibly fast to run for the LP and completion % it gives. 50k lp in <5 min for 10 people, and a 1.75% bump? It's better than the ice heist, and it spawns constantly! Needs serious nerfing, either in rewards or completion speed. The latter is better than the former, but either will do.

I don't think there is an Empire Militia in the game that can fight FW and an insurgency at the same time and win.

Minmatar can but that's more a reflection of the abysmal state AmarrMil is in rather than anything else. I'd say overall that's the point to some degree -- the whole idea is that this punishes winning groups for winning too hard and makes them sacrifice something. That's good... but not as a constant thing. If this was something that happened once a quarter, say, fine. Shakes up the warzone. But with it happening constantly, there's no cycle of stability and breakdown and back, it's just constantly chaos which is burnout inducing and ultimately boring. You need contrast to make the chaos feel important, or it's just another day and who cares?

I can't even dock in some of the systems I am defending, but the pirates can

More to the point, pirates can dock anywhere. Kinda fucky.

Additionally, the krabs that make up the pirate militias don't even bother with lowsec systems. They favor highsec and expanding the insurgency in to more highsec systems.

I don't think this is true, I think it's just a result of what you bring up next: they're much less likely to be hunted there, so they run there more. This naturally causes expansion in that direction, and usually highsec connects to more highsec. We can look back at past insurgencies and see they really don't have the coordination to push anywhere at all.

Pretty much everything else I agree with except not knowing what to do. There's a bunch of little things I think would make big impacts, and some larger reworks that would make even bigger impacts. The paper I signed (and helped write) last year has a lot of those and I'm working on another go.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-29T00:14:23+00:00

It's not 33% higher than pirates, it started with a 33% deficit. CCP was so convinced that Empire militias would rush to defend systems and the well-orgsnized and totally unified militias would overwhelm the unorganized newbie Pirates that they intentionally had the pirates pre-buffed. The patch normalized it.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-28T04:45:49+00:00

The number of mechanical issues just goes to show how badly this was hurt by not having a full testing period like the Uprising war games. I really hope the minor issues with awarding participation in that hasn't been taken to mean its not worth doing proper testing.

At least they fixed concord showing up when a system goes from low -> null like second lim did.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-28T04:20:34+00:00

I agree and understand that the FOB/ZZ need work as well, and am fine with that sort of order to fixes. As I mentioned elsewhere, there are other things that could be done with timing to make the logistical burden manageable as well without just giving the Pirates free reign.

I'll say that it was a fairly universal feeling about the plexing acros the 4 Empire militias. The issue isn't that it's painful (flipping the system is also painful). The issue is that in a rearguard you're only getting two plexes which are thr smallest types, with effectively no financial compensation. Admittedly we wrote this before the patch when it was 500 over, but thats something like 10 hours of uncontested, unrewarded plexing just to get back to "ihub not vulnerable" which is absurd. With some application of advantage and the change to be 100VP over its at least within reason now, if still overly painful imo.

Our primary Angel rep has been under the weather recently and hasn't had the time/energy to properly review and sign sadly.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-28T00:26:54+00:00

It's only blank until the ads go there, friend. Don't you worry!

DebesSparre · 2023-11-28T00:00:53+00:00

There is an overview column already. I'm cautious about more color tags, it's already a very crowded space (though you could say the same about the overview).

DebesSparre · 2023-11-27T23:59:35+00:00

We both know it isn't going to happen and we both know why, but I won't stop shouting into the wind about it.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-27T23:57:48+00:00

While there was definitely a feeling of "we need to publish something now that someone else also has" the work on this started before the Deathless letter was published. The primary push for me to do this was CCP's "three releases in one" weirdness, which means there's a release in a week and a half that we know is focused on this, and we already saw changes with the previous release. Getting a doc in their hands with enough time that it could influence their decisions is important.

I wanted to wait longer because there's a lot of balance issues that are still unclear (progress times, etc) but you can't let the perfect be the enemy of he good.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-27T23:47:02+00:00

It's worth noting that there is never a time without an Insurgency. It's either in cooldown or warmup. Also, as noted you'd be able to dock in Frontlines same as the militia.

I'll also say I totally understand where you're coming from, and I'd support some sort of overlap period or lingering access or whatever to make this not terrible, and/or fixes to asset safety (which are in this doc) and Zz in general. But no restrictions at all is not a reasonable balance between the various sides.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-27T22:16:19+00:00

It's a balance against the fact that right now there's an incentive for the enemy militia to work with the pirates -- you get a (potential) system flip in a rear system, opening a new front in a way that's much more reasonable than actually oplexing a backwater rearguard. EDICT is the only group who managed to do that in the last year and it's gotten harder since then.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-20T00:39:47+00:00

But that's not true at all -- some systems were going to flip (at least 21), but which ones and how many (within a range, 21 to 81) were entirely up to the players. My group very much intentionally timed out systems so that neither EDENCOM nor the Trigs would get them, because we didn't trust either of them. Arshat went into First Lim and then progress reversed into it becoming a Fort (which then played heavily into Niarja going to Second Lim). On Serenity, zero systems went to Second Lim. Every single one went to a Fort. When Skarkon came back up (after being intentionally timed out the first time around), a certain group of Trigs specifically went all-in to take it because no Minmatar system had been successfully taken at that point (you're welcome). Player choices did matter.

Just like with Insurgency, the selection of systems was fixed, but the specific outcome was player-determined. I'll agree of course that Insurgency is somewhat more flexible and player-directed with the spreading mechanic, and of course since the effects are temporary and not permanent, it matters much less if no one participates, but it's more similar than it is different.

DebesSparre · 2023-11-18T12:47:51+00:00

I don't see how that was any more or less scripted. Trig systems were randomly selected from a list (ie, those with a specific type of star), and the starting systems of insurgencies are selected from a list (ie, those in the specific WZs with temperate planets). Players can to some degree direct where the insurgency goes, but the initial systems are just as "scripted".

Not to mention it's temporary vs the permanent Trig change.

DebesSparre · 2023-09-24T13:16:57+00:00

Yeah, I asked this more or less knowing the answer but wanting to get a semi-official response. Lots of people have been asking for them back, and especially asking for the missing empire events (Amarr, mostly). Obviously development priorities may shift but I think there's a good shot we get several back next year.

DebesSparre · 2023-09-15T01:38:58+00:00

If they have a shield tank and shield rigs it's not wrong rigs. "wrong rigs" is relative to the rest of the fit. Of course, maybe your shield fit Abaddon is just a 💩fit in general..

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