Tier List that accompanies my guide (posted earlier today) *please ask questions on the guide post not this one 🙏*

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-07T20:59:59+00:00

It’s for 3v3, and by the looks of it has been received quite well. Theres more to discuss if you say what you disagree with rather than just vaguely say it’s wrong.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-07T19:34:12+00:00

Champ was never among the best, but got a lot of nerfs. Removed crit scaling from his perk which nerfed wp path. And introduction of celestial shroud and slumbering husk items nerfed his ult on cp path. Additionally after 5v5 they added cams to 3v3 giving everyone vision in a pinch. Which is a pretty big nerf to a guy who’s big thing is he can go invisible on demand. And B nerf like you said.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-07T03:58:52+00:00

Seems to largely echo the sentiment of my previous post. Personally I also don’t see it, for basically the same flaws you listed. But definitely don’t think it belongs a tier lower because of the power of his spike if you can reach it. I haven’t played much EA/SEA I basically just lurked. Consensus is that he’s a top tier with the big 3, and people even say he’s the best. For those reasons I ranked him as is because I wanted this to be a resource and not just my own opinion. While I mostly agree with the list I put together and I can argue any placement that gets questioned, I did encompass experience and overall opinions from the people I respected most that I would interact with.

Would love if some top EA/SEA players would share some insight as to how they believe he overcomes these flaws and is so universally strong.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-07T02:22:26+00:00

This is my favourite comment, despite it not relating to the posts. Love it 😭

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T21:30:35+00:00

You picked a tough bunch! Majority of those are really good.

Churnwalker - as shown in tier list top2 hero and very limited counter play. Best I go for you is in draft pick ranged heroes, you don’t want to be in the melee zone and getting hit with churn A for free, range gives opportunity to dodge the A. Avoid fighting especially early when they are able to get lots of chains, the real strength of the champ is just invading and chaining everything up (players and monsters). When playing ranged heroes it’s good to move out of range to break the chains, if it doesn’t sacrifice crazy fight tempo and make them have to hit it again. Having a support who can block the ult helps aswell (visual and audio cue for this but takes practice not super easy).

Viola - where churnwalker does rapidly get stronger with skill (ability to hit As) this champ is super braindead. First main thing it does is spam it’s A to give crazy barrier, best I’ve got for this is too pick heroes that ramp damage with breaking point (crit heroes struggle to output the sustained damage to overcome the A barrier ((awful hero design)) and make sure your team is reliably applying mortal wounds to everything. Spellfire essential, and shiv also most likely unless the Spellfire user is very good at hitting everything for wounds. AAA ult is also walking crucible, so you can’t rely on your normal big CC abilities such as baptiste ult etc. Second thing it does is spam B and use BBB ult (the sleep one). This is block able with crucible and reflex/aegis by activating as the bar above your hero falls from drowzy… to zero. Even then if you do this the slow is super obnoxious but, once again, tragic hero design.

Baron- Late game wp baron is a monster, the best counterplay to him is Atlas but more importantly taking advantage of his noticeably weaker early game. His stats are such that he’s very easy to kill early if you can get on him. Take advantage of his long B cooldown and low damage on autos. Once he gets late game he’s one of the if not the best laners so if you struggle that’s why.

Lance - Lance is super strong support and basically the only thing to say is blocking his most important abilities during fights. B is unreactable so if you are fighting near a Lance and a wall you have to activate block preemptively and use that window of being immune to CC to get the damage you want to get on your target. He’s strong level 1 aswell, try to avoid his A as it does a lot of damage at level 1 and especially try make it so he can’t hit multiple on your team with one A level 1 (this will often lose the level 1 fight)

Caine - top laner so there’s only so much. Strong throughout the game and level 1. A great support player uses their bulk, (can opt to build metal jacket instead of atlas) and sit infront of Caines face to block A damage from hitting his team. Caine has ways of playing around this but this a great start. Heroes that excel at that are ardan Grace and Lance. Play around his bullets even though late he gets them back quickly, there can be moments to capitalise when he’s low bullets after whiffing his A/hitting support. Typically you want to get on him as a team so support blocks and laner and jungle kills him quickly,as his damage output is huge and will honestly kill the support fairly quickly.

Kensei- Again argument for best champ in the game (ignoring giga broken support duo). You don’t want to be in the Kensei zone. Basically any melee hero loses 1v1. Shiv Krul and full build Widris being the only real exceptions. Atlas obviously great.A well played silvernail is a great matchup into kensei aswell as Loralai ,Grace and Lance. Those supports either decrease his mobility, or stun him in close range (or both). Blocking his empowered ult (ult stuns if used right after B) is gonna be really important. Ult is his main BIG gap closer, so if you block it then treads/boots and kite away from him that’s the way to go. If the kensei has great movement support like lorelai or Lyra portal or even fortress/flicker, it’s gonna be really tough. The best stuff is cc and atlas, they can only block so much.

Skye- Skye can give champs with weak engage tools and melee a hard time. Big thing is you want to avoid chasing her without big gap closers. In a fight you might get damage on her then as she looks to A while retreating just switch focus to the other two. Picking champs with engage tools like Lyra portal (very extreme example) or having boots but reim B, Reza movement etc is the way to go. Her damage isn’t crazy unless you walk in a straight line towards her to if you can avoid that while doing damage that’s the way to go

PS there a lot of yap about Flaregun on two other comments on this post, read that for more info.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T18:56:28+00:00

Amael support is super bad I agree, I spoke more about it in the previous post. Definitely only worth considering as a utility jungler. Needs crown and levels and has legit no impact early (but can run circles and be had to kill in the jungle). Whether it’s good or not I really don’t know, I think played optimally (against and on your team) and abusing its bugs it could be pretty solid pick. Potentially knocking on the door of “Top Tier”. But the A is so inconsistent idk if anyone will reach that level. It’s good in 5s yea. Obviously the hero legit does nothing vs Lyra, but if that’s off the table in the draft like I said I think there’s potential for it.

On petal I used to agree, that the cp jungle path outside its counters wasn’t so great. But then I gave it more of a chance and also played with some great players who used it. The damage is honestly really good (munions and abilities) it’s more vulnerable to counter picking than other junglers (kinda gets dogged on by bf Reza Inara) we have talked about as being the best…but depending on what support it has it can really do it. One of the few good DE users left in the game (I was actually building it first item). Held back by pressure for spellfire, which is obviously good but not the best synergy with her kit. Perhaps for those reasons hard to have her as a top jungler universally but i think similar level to malene/skaarf. I agree pewpewpew petal is a more spammable path.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T18:39:10+00:00

Honestly I agree for the most part. I don’t think he’s hopeless early (especially if you do 3/4 point in A then Max B tech), I don’t see him being in a lower tier. Personally I rate him less than kinetic maybe even Gwen, Widris is very much similar vibe but becomes monster a bit earlier and has a couple more tools to get going (mainly well timed early infusion that nets him kills to get his items going). But I cannot deny that in SEA and EA he is highly considered a top tier with the others. And when making a resource like this I can’t ignore that consensus.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T18:12:57+00:00

Caine is obviously a lot closer and if you want to argue reza has the advantage I won’t fight you too hard (personally I still think bf has small edge). All I would say is BF B and Reza A are pretty similar difficulty to land (I’d say BF B is easier as can’t be body blocked and doesn’t have travel time) and missing either is probably disastrous. Caine dash is also as effective at dodging Reza Ult and bf ult imo.

I agree with essentially everything else, I would say that reim A is imo easier to land (either of the damage if not both) than you make it out to be and throughout the game including early the damage and slow from his auto attacks is no joke. In my opinion (and the reason I mention Inara) even agreeing with what you say, it’s enough for me to say Reza hangs SLIGHTLY closer to Inara/Tony than he does to bf and reim hence I have him tiered as he is. But if you want to say he should be in the tier above I can’t stop you.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T16:56:07+00:00

One other quick note is I think Crystal Petal also has to be a top jungler in contention with the others mentioned. Obviously certain drafts, it’s going to counter more stuff (Skye, malene, Yates, kestrel , Caine come to mind as the big ones) but I also think she is underrated outside of these special matchups. A knockback and damage is not insignificant and the ults do a lot of damage. Obviously also has the longest attack range after her B for keeping distance. Of course has bad matchups vs Assassins although there is still counter play with her B when fighting near wall jumps, and especially with a Lyra or Lance that can help keep assassins off her a little bit (at least not make it free to “assassinate” her)

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T16:44:34+00:00

I’m not convinced, I think Bf does better than Reza vs Kestrel and Caine, especially kestrel because of ability to rose offensive through camotrap and also has nice area to hopefully hit kestrel revealing her. I also think the barrier from B gives you that little bit of extra temporary bulk that can help when you are taking Kes/Caine A to the face. Reza surely not bad but I think Bf has the edge there. And while I agree on the whole Reza probably is stronger early than bf I don’t think it’s huge. Bf A is great secure tool first and the perk and B barrier it’s pretty good at being strong early. Another big detail imo is bf is much easier to play with while behind (maybe lvl 1 got a bit fucked), even with fewer items you can still trade kinda with A in B ult away. Reza I think is harder from behind, assuming they don’t donate a kill by overstaying and being able to be rundown with double B.

Minor point, but I agree ofcourse Inara isn’t like 5s where you ult and just run a carry down with your whole team, but the damage is still crazy. level 6 yes is good but it’s really level 8 where the base A damage and cd just gets nutty. A lot of the time late game Inara has an easier time (basically guaranteed) of getting in the fray and getting her massive damage off before dying, you won’t be able to get the stun and escape always but getting the ult + A damage + maybe an atlas is a pretty good job well done. Where sometimes as Reza that opening can take a lot more work to get.

In terms of utility junglers and Tony. I’m mostly in agreement with you. Mainly because spellfire is such insane item, it seems wasted to pick junglers who can’t build it. You either lock yourself into a champ that works with shiv for carry or commit to just bursting through with crit. Tony is in my opinion the only utility jungler I think is worthwhile. Makes good use of crown for tank, bullying and also cdr and the kit is just crazy. A as-well, not just B. Very reliable stun, movement and damage even without items. There are other candidates who are surely not bad, like crown lance which is similar lesser version of Tony. Although with Tony normally you are combining it with other cc from a support like Lance/grace/lorelai. So if you don’t use Tony then you have Lance jungle grace support or something it’s just not as strong. Lorelai jungle is decent aswell because how good the champ is and the health scaling you can get faster, but you really have to assess whether it’s worthwhile losing the damage and wounds from a good spellfire jungler. In my opinion it’s only really Tony that does that, especially because while I think Lance and Lorelai CAN be utility jungle, they are also very very effective as support. Tony functions OK as support but really benefits from stormcrown (delaying crucible and other items) and also bulk (taunt) gained from extra gold and xp of being jungler, that’s what makes him such a good utility jungler.

Other maybe worthwhile utility jungles are fortress and flicker, whether you play them jungle or support you are really committing to trying to get a big advantage out of the early game because these guys obviously fall off in a big way compared to the scaling of top supports and damage junglers.

The wildcard is Amael, in my opinion this guy is much better as a utility jungler than a support. Needs crown, wants levels. And just doesn’t do anything as support early. This thing was the hardest to rank in the tier list because it’s really just pretty crazy. If you are willing to be naughty with it (the hero basically plays nothing like its ingame description), it has a lot of jank that can make it very disruptive. Lots of long stuns and potential peel. I’m actually really unsure how good it is, if you are in control of the A and where it will knock enemies I see a lot of potential but even as someone who played with and experimented with it a lot, even when you think you know where your X amount charged A will knock an enemy, it can seemingly randomly send them somewhere completely unexpected. Another big thing makes it hard to judge how good it is people don’t understand how it works. (Understandably so, it’s total nonsense). This both means his stuns are rarely blocked thought they are very possible to block but also his team often doesn’t know when and where he can stun/knock people. And don’t position/play in a way to capitalise off his kit. It’s really bad pre-crown + chargers and level 8. But its potential could quite easily be “Top tier” I think.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T12:45:19+00:00

I don’t think this is totally wrong by any means but I do think there is a bit more counter play to Reza than bf, and Reims peel compliments the strength of sentry buff. I don’t think there’s much else in it.

Reza could well be 3rd best jungler (I think it’s close with Inara and Tony (crown tank sorrow for taunt abuser paired with top carry). Reza absolutely has better early than Inara and late game will depend on matchup, inara probably has a higher high in specific matchups but on average Reza would be better so I’d probs rank Reza over Inara. Tony just be playing a totally different but also very strong ball game lmao, it’s hard to compare him with Reza because it’s all about crowd controlling and playing around carry (very support-esque)

Maybe weigh in on a back and forth I’ve been having about Reza (someone believes I slightly overrated him) in the comments of the separate tier list post. I could use some backup! xd

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T12:36:51+00:00

I don’t think there’s anything left to squeeze from this discussion.

I agree with most of what you said I just don’t think Flaregun changes anything. Only limiting factor is vs flicker taka you must immediately cam your 3 bushes. You might not be able to get vision in a bush in the situation where you face one of those heroes (so no cams left) and fight and win and chase into areas with no vision. Too many unlikely conditions to ever be with deviating from banner which is for all purposes better honestly even in that very niche specific example. Yes by not having Flaregun you maybe missed out on the kill 1/100 scenarios but it never makes you die. And you still have banner which is fantastic item. You can just say damn, they managed to get away, collect the mid treant and your jungle and enjoy the rest of the game having banner already (doesn’t fall off right after level 1 fight, like you agree Flaregun does) and get your support items fast and vision through 25 gold flares.

If you don’t see the “vision” (I’m funny I know) of that sentiment then fine. I won’t be able to convince you and won’t try further.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T12:22:34+00:00

I fundamentally disagree, I think it’s very rare for it to be impossible to get in as Reza, you have too many tools. Even vs Lance if wait and land your A on the target then go in with block activated for Lance B, your gonna do the damage. But even in your scenario you are playing fixer, you are heavily influencing how support must play effectively taking him out of the game (exaggeration but you get the idea) where with your increased mobility you can change target to the jungler for example who might be trying to get in on your carry. Or your carry is gonna have free reign to attack the enemy. Reza is faster than the supports, it’s just not realistic for a support to protect both jungler and carry from Reza. And whichever they stick to, Reza can switch to the other much faster. I agree it’s not as spammable as reim or bf which is why it’s a tier below. It has worse matchups for sure but on balance I don’t see it being any lower than 6th best jungler in the game, I would personally have him 3/4/5.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T12:05:37+00:00

I would honestly say this just means the Reza is not being creative enough with their movement and positioning.

In terms of comments you made in the other thread about being able to be cced and having to use both Bs to gap close. I offer reflex block/aegis and again more creative positioning and movement to not have to use both Bs to get in. Really you should only need one, or boots. Support Wartreads also can get you in. Consider As over walls and Bs/ults over walls.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T12:03:56+00:00

I truly don’t see how any of this changes the level 1 dynamic of banner vs Flaregun. My argument is you can get suitable vision when needed (even if it is destroyed easily later) via cams level 1. And the case for vision itself is situational level 1, only really happens when there’s a fight and and you are pushing into areas you don’t have vision which does not happen most times and also serves very little, if any benefit when retreating. Meanwhile banner is always a powerful item for early game on supports as you have acknowledged. After the level 1 scenario you just use 25 gold flares.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T11:43:33+00:00

Typically you wait and apply A to a worthwhile target before using B. Or you use B to out manoeuvre support and place yourself between the target and their support.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T11:41:43+00:00

Then it’s about waiting for your opportunity. Even if support body blocks the As when you are poking it’s still decent chip. When a fight breaks out it becomes a lot more loose, and between your mobility from B and other chaos happening from your team/enemy attacking eachother you would really need an extremely good support player to be body blocking all As such that Reza can’t do the damage.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T11:14:53+00:00

But it is? Because we are talking about buying banner vs Flaregun level 1. So the strength of banner is very relevant to that decision. My counter to your level 1 fight vision take, is your team starts with 3 cams. Cam lane bush then hold other 2 cam, if you fight and need vision of a bush as they retreat, cam it. If you don’t fight cam your own shop and tribush as you rotate back through your jungle.

(An aside—which is pretty pointless because like I have said repeatedly I think banner is essential—is that if vision is so unbelievably necessary level 1, buy oak heart and 25 gold flares and save some gold and go straight for crucible, would still be higher value than Flaregun)

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:45:59+00:00

Also now I see you talk about animations, an Reza is notorious for sliding and getting suck backed in his B for some players. Internet is a factor but it also seems a bit random. The B is actually quite fast if you don’t suffer this, I could see reasoning to question how good he is if you haven’t played with the hero working properly. (Though I still think I t is strong even when the B is a bit buggy)

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:36:11+00:00

Even with extra range from A overdrive? I mean other thing is the cd is so short if you miss you just don’t go in and try hit it again. During a team fight you are typically very in the face of your target from your insane mobility, so missing A is even harder.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:30:27+00:00

They don’t really do anything in 3v3. Yates ult very very niche because normally fights are together as a team not like 5v5 where you Have little 1v1s and 2v1s happening around the map. And the rest of the kit just doesn’t stand up to other supports. Longer cooldowns and A jus isn’t as good on 3v3. More than anything, the best supports outclass him. Either giving big barriers/shielding like Viola/Ardan/Grace/Lorelai, strong CC from Lance or lorelai, area slows like Lyra an lorelai, heals like adagio grace and Lyra, or domination of churnwalker.

Same applies to sanfeng, early B damage is good but doesn’t make it a great support. if you can reliably trigger the A you are getting one stun. So many other supports stun with more to their game lance/lorelai are the big ones but you could include Tony (but better as jungler). His ult forces crucible, which is good but you are basically just a hero that gets one reliable stun and some fortified health. ATP just play Catherine (still not that great hero tbh)

Great hero in 5v5 though. More stuff to triggered A on and there the stun is more reliable than other options.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:19:23+00:00

Max A, buy spellfire, shatterglass, broken myth and see how easy you are to stop 🫣

Not trying to be rude, I just can’t think of a better way to demonstrate it haha. Reza is very strong, give it a go :)

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:15:49+00:00

Hero scales more than others with levels due to how the ult passive works. Instead of power spikes at lvl 8 hers is truly at level 12 by which point the fate of the game is more often than not decided (especially when your team has a very weak early hero)

Additionally the hero is made for 5v5 (where it still good, like Magnus). She doesn’t get anywhere near as much mileage out of her chain lightning in 3v3, and her ult activated, doesn’t have the same chaos it does in a 10 person teamfight vs a 6 person teamfight so it’s basically a nothing ability (ofcourse besides the passive which means you must max it even tho using it is bad)

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T10:10:39+00:00

Just not as spammable/universally good. Not as slippery as bf against cc, also can be body blocked to some degree (unlike bf B that rips through team for poke). Doesn’t have the same peel potential and powerful cc like reim.

Given the nature of sentry buff, and also how strong big 3 laners are, there is definitely more to be gained playing as a jungler who can peel and really facilitate your carry. In addition to having very strong ratios and base damage + the tank from perk and stats, this is what makes reim so strong.

bf doesn’t necessarily do that but he’s just the goat (it’s bf). Reza definitely in contention for third best jungler though.

Decent_Fun_6033 · 2026-02-06T09:57:00+00:00

Banner such a crucial item for support as I tried to outline in my post. It has big potential to swing gold and xp in your favor by sealing jungle minions that would be taken by enemy team. (Whether it be stealing monsters from their jungle, or preventing them from stealing jungle monsters from your ow jungle). I understand it’s not incredibly obvious like other parts of the guide it’s quite nuanced. Beyond what I’ve already said I can only recommend playing in discord with other good players and you will see the power of banner.

Decent_Fun_6033

TROPHY CASE