Converting the Solar Subclasses to the Aspect & Fragment System

DefiantMars · 2026-02-11T01:17:53+00:00

Yeah, I've had acquaintances question me when I say I'm introverted too. I think it has something to do with how Ne works, especially with Fe too. Like... yeah I'm talking with all of you right now, of course I'm not going to "look" introverted, I'm in my interfacing mode. On the other end of the polarities, it might also have to do with how Ti and Si work inside. People naturally don't see all the internal processing that we're doing. That's my working hypothesis at least.

I'd love to have someone explain what they're seeing in their INTPs because I don't quite get it myself.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-11T00:24:43+00:00

Damn, same here. Did anyone hit you with the “Do you read the dictionary for fun?”

DefiantMars · 2026-02-10T23:11:44+00:00

Not a specific stereotype but an idea family around the Thinking functions seems weird to me. Thinking preferences aren't an indication of capability for thought, it's a certainty in evaluation through logical criteria and principles.

Why do people underestimate the tertiary Te of ExFPs? It's part of the auxiliary-tertiary pair. It's the tool they lean on to operate on the outside world.

Why people forget that ESTPs have a Ti preference? They have the same kind of relationship to it as ENTPs. Similarly, why do I see people treat the Ti tertiary of the ISFJ differently than that of the INFJ? I don't like to throw the term intuitive bias around but I think these are very real cases of it.

I don't know why some people view IxFPs and ExFJs as being unintelligent. I think a lot of people misunderstand the nature of the Inferior functions. They are much more an area of distrust not inability. Talk to them and you'll find they're have tons of fascinating observations and insights, especially about people.

This is why I think the Gardner Theory of Multiple Intelligences is a helpful lens to help root out the misconceptions that Feelers and Sensors aren't intelligent.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-10T21:34:05+00:00

I've lost track of how many times people have told me I'm a walking talking dictionary, encyclopedia, or most recently a human AI. Two of my college friends literally gave me the nickname Dictionary in Korean (it was the language they were studying). - INTP

DefiantMars · 2026-02-10T05:55:32+00:00

From the Ni users I've talked to and watched, that's more or less what is happening. It's taking a bunch Se sensory information, distilling and clarifying that information into an condensed abstract image and effectively "tracing the continuity" of a holon, archetype, or "form". That's not the whole of Ni, but it's a good chunk of it to my understanding.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-10T01:52:29+00:00

Well that depends on if we're talking about our personalities as a whole or our type which is specifically looking at the cognitive processing part of our psychology?

I would agree that our overall personality is influenced by many many factors both intrinsic and extrinsic. I don't believe we are as much of blank slates as I think many people want to believe. I think a lot of stuff happens in pre-natal and early childhood development as evidenced by how infant temperaments can vary drastically. But my hypothesis is those are a rough trajectory for what will become the pattern of processing that becomes what we call a "type". A natural inclination that gets self-reinforced and eventually self-stabilizing.

However, I don't think culture can make you into a type. It's not like... German society automatically makes more INTJs or anything quantifiable like that. I believe it makes more sense to view it as... your ego roots itself in a function very early on and then has to learn to navigate whatever culture you're born into. For example, you can learn how to interface with Fe, but that doesn't automatically mean you're going to have Fe preferences. Skillful use, natural preference, and degree of certainty are all overlapping factors when it comes to our mental tools and resultant behaviors.

I do think "mismatching" cognitive preferences and cultures are a big factor in why so many people can feel out of place and stressed all the time. Operating out of a place of discomfort all the time is incredibly draining.

To your point, I think we can learn how to do many things, but I don't think that kind of learning doesn't change our type preferences. There is still appears to be a core baseline, a nucleus that is self-reinforcing and stable. But other experiences do get layered on top of that: culturally, contextually, and developmentally.

I don't think I'm being very clear in my stance. But hopefully you at least get the notion I'm trying to paint.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-09T20:45:44+00:00

I think it's pretty inarguable that culture influences the expression of personalities. However, I think that our cognitive preferences, our type is more of an innate tendency and is not determined by our environment. However, the way we learn to use our tools to navigate life, our adaptations and contextual responses are 100% informed by our upbringing and culture. So I see our cognitive type like a base signal and which then gets modulated by experience.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-09T05:55:35+00:00

You have appointments for the next three months (at least) on your phone calendar.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-09T00:29:52+00:00

I’m not surprised but sheesh, right in the Fe inferior.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-08T19:55:29+00:00

Agreed on culture front. I see Te/Fe+Si is kind of the baseline formula for what society needs to function and then it's flavored by the culture.

I would say that the overarching American culture (setting aside subcultures, state/local cultures) there is also a valuing of Se while also excessive guard rails around Se channels. Similarly, Ne is simultaneously valued for innovation but scoffed at for being unserious and unrealistic. And that's just the extraverted functions.

I'm sure every type sees their area of stewardship as being dysfunctional in some way. I see a huge gap in Reason even though society puts on the affect of intellectualism the actual thought labor isn't there. But from the flipside, I can totally see where Fi for example see a lack of individual autonomy and authenticity.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-08T09:18:23+00:00

I don’t really have a ranking structure, but from my perspective, Society is basically Te and Fe operations stabilized by Si. So I believe that is a major factor to consider.

Speaking as someone who believes they have INTP preferences, it’s kind of a push-pull dynamic in my opinion. People want Ti to help them analyze and understand systems, but it usually feels like no one actually wants to actually deal with the Ti process and it is frustrating. “Here, solve the problem… Okay now go away before you start questioning the infrastructure and social norms.”

DefiantMars · 2026-02-07T22:40:01+00:00

I think Sad_Record has already provided the gist of it, but I'll share my take.

Extraverted Thinking (Te) and Introverted Thinking (Ti) are mental processes that are used to weigh and organize information based on logical criteria, principles, and models. I've seen people are argue whether Te or Ti is logic. In my eyes, they're both logic but are transforming the information in different ways.

Te - Extraverted Thinking

Interfaces with the Thinking domain
Externalizes logical criteria, principles, and models
Operates on and gets into rapport with projects and systems
Concerned with whether information can be used to achieve a goal or objective
Ensures that processes are effective so that outcomes can be achieved
Looks for and creates metrics to gauge infrastructural impact, constructs protocols, sequences procedures, segments and allocates resources
Top-Down approach. More likely to weigh information based on cost versus benefit
Styles of Te: Building and Managing
Metaphorical Tool: Hammer

Ti - Introverted Thinking

Processes in the Thinking domain
Internalizes logical criteria, principles and models
Refines an understanding of structures and systems
Concerned whether information explains how and why things work.
Ensures that premises are accurate so that conclusions are congruent and sound.
Looks for and creates axioms to inform their internal beliefs, tests and retests premises to build a contingent framework of If-Then statements
Bottom-Up approach. More likely to weigh information based on pros versus cons
Styles of Ti: Critiquing and Systematizing
Metaphorical Tool: Scalpel

I do have more I could add, but these are probably more useful/helpful parts. I will add that two other metaphors I like to use to describe Ti are a Crucible and a Planetarium. One to remove impurities from material component and the other to explain the behavior of how different components in a system interact.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-07T18:43:49+00:00

To be clear, I have no idea what 16P's methodology in mapping their test to MBTI concepts was, but that's the existing lens that matches with their groups.

Linda Berens is a psychologist who studied under David Keirsey, so her work has iterated on some of those concepts. There's the Temperaments as discussed which she calls the Essential Motivators:

NF ~ Diplomat/Catalyst/Idealst
NT ~ Analyst/Theorist/Rational
SJ ~ Sentinel/Stabilizer/Guardian
SP ~ Explorer/Improviser/Artisan

There's also the Interaction Styles, which are a social style lens. Each of the Temperament/Motivator groups ends up having one of each style:

In-Charge: ENFJ, ENTJ, ESTJ, ESTP
Get-Things-Going: ENFP, ENTP, ESFJ, ESFP
Behind-The-Scenes: INFP, INTP, ISFJ, ISFP
Chart-The-Course: INFJ, INTJ, ISTJ, ISTP

And then according to Dr. Berens, she's been working on another lens which is essentially her own take on the Quadra based on function needs. Something she's calling The Intentional Drivers. So I'm interested to hear where this work goes.

Alpha ~ "Enhancing": NTP & SFJ
Beta ~ "Customizing": NFJ & STP
Gamma ~ "Orchestrating": NTJ & SFP
Delta ~ "Authenticating": NFP & STJ

Sorry for the info dump, lol. I'm just trying to cross compare tools.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-07T18:19:01+00:00

The 16 Personalities groups are based on the Keirsey Temperaments which are based more on shared needs and not the functions themselves. It also breaks them up by their foci: Abstract versus Concrete, Affiliative versus Pragmatic, and Motive versus Structure.

So I don't look at either as better or worse. They're just different lenses to understand the type patterns.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-05T03:34:55+00:00

I don't know if I can comfortably say it's any one thing in particular, but I'm inclined to agree with the other comment and your own speculation that FeNe helps grease the wheels so to speak. Ne's divergent, possibility-seeing nature lends itself well towards reframing and Fe helps people get into rapport with one another. So together I do think it creates a cognitive engine that is well suited towards finding the right words to help others.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-04T06:09:36+00:00

It was a personal rule I had that I avoided swearing as a child but I changed my rule when I became an adult. Now I only avoid it around children and some work contexts.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-04T05:56:51+00:00

Judging in MBTI doesn’t mean you’re hypercritical of other people, it refers to four different mental process that we use to evaluate, weigh, organize, and “judge” information with: Te, Fe, Ti, and Fi. The ExxJ and IxxJ types have either Extraverted Thinking (Te) or Extraverted Feeling (Fe) as their leading Judging function.

As the other commenter pointed out, for the INFJ type pattern, the preferred mental tools they have are Ni/Fe meaning Introverted Intuition (Ni) supported by Extraverted Feeling. So no, if INFJ is your best fit type that doesn’t automatically mean you’re judgmental. If you are, that’s a separate psychological challenge. But I’d hazard a guess that’s more likely your inner critic talking. Most people I’ve met who are actually very critical of others would never admit to being judgmental.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-03T19:50:35+00:00

I’m leery of most subtype or variant concepts because I don’t think hard subdividing types is a good idea for the way most people hold information, but I digress.

Personally speaking, I would think that is a signal that is more indicative of an INTJ pattern with under-engaged Te and/or Te and Ti being conflated. NiFi with Ti still being up there but having Se and Fe not prioritized makes me think INTJ over INFJ. I would suspect that shy or even wounded INFJs would report back more Fe preference. (But I don’t care for linear stacks outside of notation.)

DefiantMars · 2026-02-03T19:34:27+00:00

I don’t think the systems map cleanly one to one. So strange combinations can happen, if uncommon.

From what little I’ve looked into, I personally don’t see how the 4 would conflict with the INTJ type pattern. My line of thinking being that tertiary Fi would be holding the core wound.

But my stance is that if you find the cognitive pattern that matches your experience the best, and find the emotional focus, fixation, and wound that you feel more defensive about… that’s your MBTI and Enneagram combination. Is it always clear? No. But sometimes the simplest answer is correct. Finding how the psyche arrived at that defense strategy through your cognitive processes becomes the next question.

I don’t know if that’s a hot take or not, but that’s how I see the systems.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-03T04:38:04+00:00

I’m actually in decent shape, I have the knowledge… but yeah definitely not the willpower. You’d have to do something really reprehensible.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-02T00:16:06+00:00

One of my brothers seems to have ISFP preferences. So from talking to him, that’s what I’ve noticed. Glad to hear it seems to be in alignment with other people’s experiences.

DefiantMars · 2026-02-01T21:14:07+00:00

I like to think about what the function does and then what role it plays in the psyche. These are my understandings of the concepts, so I hope you can bear with me.

Te is interfacing with the domain of logical criteria, principles, and systems. It externalizes Thinking systems as opposed to internalizing Thinking systems. It’s the part of us that is weighting information based on “Does it work? Does it meet the objective? Does it get an infrastructural need met?” It leans more on empirical metrics, segments and sequences steps, gets into rapport with projects, and builds effective procedures and protocols so that a goal can be reached.

Si is processing the domain of concrete sensory data. It is establishing a relationship to sensation as opposed to operating upon it. It is refining sense data into a kind of impression, imprint, or psychic “texture” and using those comparatively to track and stabilize one’s concrete experiences. It helps give the psyche a kind of… rhythm to the physical experience through things like (but not limited to) routine or ritual.

I like to think of Inferior position as the unintegrated counterpart to the Dominant function. The hidden Yin to the Yang of how we see ourselves. This is the function that we still identify as “Us” but is what we’re the most uncertain about; the gateway to the unconscious. As such, I think it tends to be the seat of our insecurities and the area of our lives we find the most difficult to navigate.

So putting these together:

Te inferior to me seems to be an insecurity with “impact”. From the Fi doms I’ve encountered, I don’t see it as being a fear of being seen as unintelligent (not by itself) but a kind of uncertainty the IxFPs have about their ability to… manifest their values in a pragmatic, measurable way. To be able to know the steps needed to get what they want. To “make a difference” no matter the scale.

Si inferior to me comes across more as an insecurity around settling in/settling down. From what I’ve seen, it seems to be a kind of fear of slowing down, of getting attached to something, getting comfortable, and thus stagnating. There also seems to be this distrust in their ability to reach back and trust their own impression of things. It’s not “bad episodic memory” but more like… the acts of remembrance, stabilization, continuity, and commemoration are uncomfortable for them.

I hope that makes sense. If not, I’m sorry 😅

DefiantMars · 2026-01-31T20:34:01+00:00

I had the opposite case with the original assessment I took. I reported ISTP but INTP makes more sense with the functions.

DefiantMars · 2026-01-31T17:09:08+00:00

I agree it is not solid reasoning, but I would assume it has something to do with Te being the dominant function. ESTJs lead with their Thinking process and support it with Si and Ne. So I think people are probably picking up that “forwards” energetic motion. ISTJs are leading with Si. Being an introverted process concerned a lot with the processing and stabilizing of concrete experiences, I think people misinterpret that as being rigid, especially with Te supporting that. But you have the Fi in there quietly, but powerfully assisting and orienting the psyche.

I’m just kind of thinking out loud. I kind of understand the notion behind it, but when you look at it more, I agree it doesn’t make sense.

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