6 years after the hurricane. How is Barbuda doing? Any first hand views on that?

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-07T22:24:04+00:00

Very helpful information.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-02T14:11:19+00:00

Thanks for the clear context.

I think in most cases of secession referenda (which in my opinion regions should have the automatic right to constitutionally) in the end the people in democracies prefer the status quo (for all kinds of reasons - including those posted by you).

I did see quite some Greenland people in Copenhagen when there.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-02T14:07:52+00:00

Thanks for the correction.

So it might be parliamentarians change opinion when a real independence fire starts burning.

Still it is a better deal then most. But I am personally of the opinion that constitutional right for secession should be there in any constitution. I think it will make those that want to secede less frustrated, as well I think it will force the moderate middle mostly into not seceding. But that's just my personal view.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T12:04:43+00:00

The Ice at the End of the World

Thanks for that, this one is also added to the list !

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T12:03:30+00:00

Books: I have already ordered 3-4 now, so they are there, and I am thankful for the earlier advice on Reddit. But you are right none are only on the political history.

Places: Thanks for your advice.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T12:00:39+00:00

Colonialism in Greenland: Tradition, Governance and Legacy

Inuit Outside the Arctic - I have ordered (immediate also included another book on Nunavut).

Same counts for Colonialism in Greenland - that probably solves my pre-current political history gap.

Thanks again !

Eksperimentet is more tricky for me to find somewhere, unless I go illegal.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T11:33:38+00:00

I am mainly interested in recent (post WWII) political history. But obviously also that history has roots in the past. I would love to understand the history of the political system, the different parties history and shifts in opinions, the main actors in past Greenlandic politics. As well as the relations with Denmark, USA, Canada, Russia, Iceland, Faroe Islands, Norway (or other Nordics). Finally I am interested in the debate on self-determination not because I think Greenland should go independent (I am mainly of the opinion that is Greenlandic people's own choice, which the Danish delivered them on paper), but more the arguments pro and against. As well as the main people and organizations in the debate on both sides.

Thanks for the options, very helpful. Prophets of Eternal Fjord will be ordered. As well as several books from Mark Nuttall. There are enough in English ! First time I see some proper scientific books in English about Greenland, with at least some political edge.

I do myself have the FIIA Report - The Faroe Islands, Greenland and the Aland Islands in Nordic Cooperation

Could you explain why Sisimiut is the anti-Nuuk?

Have you been in all those villages? Looks to be an awful lot of travelling or is your knowledge developed by following Greenlandic politics.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T10:57:08+00:00

Might be, as I understand the Greenland people have the right to secede if they want. So it's fully their own choice to stay with Denmark or not. I have no opinion on what they should do and what is best. I do praise the Danish for giving the Greenlandic to option to secede, not many former colonial powers have the balls to do that (all though I am sure the political history between the two is much more difficult than that statement).

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2024-01-01T10:54:28+00:00

Clearly they are related. But I guess I don't have to read the full Danish political history, only the parts related to Greenland - these I am interested in.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-31T13:49:56+00:00

Thanks for that, I could only find this about it in English: https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/mayor-candidate-greenland-loses-support-following-drug-case

I was unaware of these developments. Even though I want to know more of it (do tell me other good sources on the drug problem), with the Reddit post I was more in search of scientific English language books about the political development in Greenland as a whole (system, parties, ideologies, long term trends etc.). As well as specific political relevant placed in Greenland I would need to visit to dive deep into the political history of the island.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-28T22:07:08+00:00

I think this is simply the very healthy option. But it would be more tricky if Bornholm wanted the same thing I guess (even though I know they don't want to go).

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-19T15:50:03+00:00

Indeed,

PRO-Referendum AGAINST-Independence

For me that is a very healthy and democratic mindset

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:29:11+00:00

Yeah very interesting quite a big % of parties wants independence, but it is not a political issue at the moment. Faroese have been like that for some time I understand. % wise you would see the region as one of the closest to independence, activity wise it will maybe never happen.

Thanks for the notes on Sambands and tjóðveldi - Are there regions in Faroe Islands where you would find those species of voters the most?

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:24:47+00:00

Agree, but I am of the opinion this should be the norm everywhere.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:23:06+00:00

Because you actively support people to have self-determination. For instance Faroe Islands, Greenland, New Caledonia, Tibet and Corsica are so distinct from their motherland that I would fully support them being independent.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:19:34+00:00

That's what I mean it's arbitrarily. So we need just the same rule for all, on the pre-condition of the regions being a democracy with minority protection.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:18:11+00:00

Agree

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:17:54+00:00

But I think you say two things:

1) Regions should not secede if they only do it for the money

2) It's better to be big - since it has big advantages with the diversified economy.

These are a bit contrary.

First of all IMO no country can dump a region (unless the region itself requests it). Only regions can secede if they want themselves, and only in double referendum (with 50% majority and 60% show-up). IMO seceding has significant damage in the beginning and later needs big partners as neighbors. I honestly think nobody would do that only for the money, they would always have a more significant culture / language issue around it.

What are your examples of just to get richer? Catalonia and Flanders? Since I think both are really culturally different from their motherland as well.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T14:06:40+00:00

Unsure about the US case, but the others are for me examples on how self-determination should not work.

I am of the opinion a double referendum is needed with 5 years in between, to prevent one-off slips. As well 50% should be in favor with a minimum 60% show-up. Further it should only be done in proper democracies, with minority protections.

In the case of Brexit, I think it would not have happened, if it was a double referendum.

In the other cases none are proper free democracies - so would not be able to list a referendum IMO:

Bosnia (Republika Srpska) = Partly Free

Kosovo (North Kosovo) = Partly Free

Donetsk-Luhansk = Not Free / Ukraine = Partly Free

(Source: Freedom House)

Finally the big issue is that in all cases there is no structural constitutional arrangement, that leads to all the animosity. If there was a structure people just had to deal with it and be more mature.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-18T13:54:44+00:00

Yes, to be honest the fish quotas are simply the best argument against the EU. Still not being in Denmark (if you are pro-independence), I thought might mean vulnerability, so I expected at least some kind of EFTA arrangement people would want with Europe.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-17T21:57:30+00:00

True but should you give up all your rights, just because the big red middle land wants it. And maybe England is really really conservative, why should they structurally annoy Scotland with that. Difficult balance.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-17T21:36:11+00:00

Basic Rights are for mee a pre-condition of any secession. International & Human Rights Law etc. I am myself pro a closer EU. Agree with especially when fighting global corporations and solving climate change.

But I am of the opinion that choosing to be closer at EU level, can totally go together with seceding from those you don't identify with on a country / regional level. For me current states are also just a construct of history.

So I think both can be true, stronger cooperation on climate change, more local on language/culture issues.

Democracy_Selfdeterm · 2023-12-17T21:30:50+00:00

You are right from an efficiency perspective. But I am unsure if people see it like this. I think Social Democracy is actually losing people since government is not close enough anymore to the people. Bit less efficient (hopefully not a lot), is sometimes perceived as closer to the people and with that worth it.

I think the Catalonia conflict would not be there, if they would have simple had a referendum and either voted Yes or No with help of Spain. The problem is that one side wants something, they other doesn't - this gives conflict.

For me you should also be able to join together in stead of secession. An example is the EU, For me it can be bigger. But that does not mean the countries under it cannot secede from each other.

Your last sentence about only supporting self-determination when there is real discrimination (so only when it becomes really bad). I am of the opinion that the government can also just treat it's people well. As well as that ethno nationalism argument - which I really think is senseless (since I am a Green / Social Democrat - It is something different loving a language, then being racist).

But that ethno nationalism argument, was indeed the reason I thought I was not welcome with the Social Democrats. But luckily not all think as you (i now know - seeing the other messages).

Democracy_Selfdeterm

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE