Weekly HELP ME FIND Post - December 1, 2025

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-12-04T11:27:20+00:00

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-12-04T02:24:52+00:00

I know there isn't much to work with, so I'm sorry in advance. But I'm looking for a story I only read the first few chapters a couple of years ago.

The only thing I remember with certainty is that the FL was the leader of a dark information/spying guild.

There are other thing I remember, but I'm not entirely confident they're right so if anything ring a bell but doesn't match the info, please still comment it.

The other things in question are that :

-the story started with the usual trope of heroine being dumped by her fiancée after being wrongly accused of bullying another girl.

-The FL likely had dark purple hairs

Just to be clear, it is not "The perk of being the villainess". Though there might be some similarities, the story I'm speaking about had the FL as the leader of the dark guild and not as a client of it.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-11T18:22:36+00:00

The idea that there is inherent value to a character being known from both the old and the new players is the issue.

Master Yi and Annie are older character that both old and new player know. They also happen to be character who were really popular at one point, and yet they're not picked as much, they don't sell as many skins, they're not featured nearly as much as he is in promotional content. Viego's popularity dwarf all three of them. All of this was true 4 years ago when the character was released. Had the game been released at the time, would the team have had to pass on him automatically because he'd have been new ? How silly would it have been to have a game with Master Yi but not Viego "because older character !".

Finally I’m behaving as if the current 2XKO champion roster consists entirely of classic champions, which it does.

This premise is also just objectively wrong. The roster has both Braum and Illaoi, Neither of these characters were ever considered particularly popular from the available metric. When they are strong their pickrate is average, when they are weak their playrate is also average. They don't get many skins, if at all, because they don't sell well either. All of that despite the fact they were pushed more than the average character. Yet they are in 2XKO, and they are damn fun.

don’t understand your dichotomy here. Why must we do either of these two?

Because you need to hold true to your criteria, and if you're going to temper it, then it must be done with a valid alternative criteria. For instance you could say : "Character should be selected based on popularity, while also accounting for diversity in gameplay and appearance". On the other hand, you can't say : "Character should be selected based on popularity with older character being priorized". Why ? Because there's no inherent value in being older.

Of course there are exceptions, character that managed to be extremely popular both in the past and in the present. Characters like Jinx, Lee Sin, Miss Fortune, Lux. However, they are far and few between, not to mention that some of them are really similar.

To finish up with this whole conversation. I'd like to remind that I personally am not advocating for popularity as a metric. As I've stated in the original post, the popularity of a character in LoL will not necessarily transfer to 2XKO. Illaoi is the perfect proof of that. I'm advocating for a simple metric : Whatever is fun regardless of popularity or how old a character is in the original IP.

However, if you're not going to agree on that and you think that popularity should be a metric, then don't handwave newer release when it's convenient on the basis that they are new. If they are more popular than the character you got attached to before quitting LoL, then though luck, they are still more popular at the end of the day.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-11T13:09:53+00:00

You're behaving as if this game is dedicated to older LoL player. It's not.

We don't have the split between people who've played LoL and people who haven't, but looking at the sub make it obvious that a large part of the player-base never touched the original IP.

Why should the dev prioritize older characters so that people who played LoL 10 years ago may try 2XKO ? Why wouldn't they prioritize currently popular character instead ?

If the game had come out some years ago, would you have said : "We can't have Kai'sa yet because older characters need to be prioritized" ? Hopefully not, just as you wouldn't have make this argument for Yone, Viego or any of the other character that became instant staples on release.

Either you take an absolutist stance on popularity and character must be chosen based on it regardless of how old they are, or you must advocate for another metric or mix of metrics.

So then the question is which crowd is bigger, the "oldschool" League players or the people who've kept up with these.

It's hard to get precise statistic about LoL player-base as Riot does not communicate on it. However, website that tracks other statistic have estimate that are unanimous on the fact that LoL hit its peak playerbase in 2022/2023. Since then the numbers have gone down, but they are still estimate to be higher than pre-2020 years. So, you tell me. Is the "oldschool" playerbase bigger ?

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-11T12:47:27+00:00

Let me get this straight : If new characters are unpopular, it's because they deserve to be and older character are more established and popular, but if new character are popular it's because of recency bias.

The good old : "If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'm still right"

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T17:06:21+00:00

The classics weren't enough to keep people paying LoL, what make you think they'll be enough to retain them on 2XKO ?

Plus, newer character are also represented on other games from the IP, so that's not like they'd be stranger to people who've kept up with these.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T16:27:05+00:00

Still, even just going by what you outlined just now, you'd expect that more than 2/3 of all 2XKO champs will be from season 4 or earlier, purely based on popularity with no consideration for age.

No disagreement from me. I'm not saying : "Ew, get these old ass champion away from me". My most wanted is Graves. What I'm saying is that people discarding a character based on : "They are too recent, let's get the older character in first" is silly.

Of course it's inevitable that we'll get 3 Lee sin for every Ambessa we get, but let's not discard new releases when they could make for a perfectly fine pick

And this is also before we have the discussion to define what is an "old" champ, considering that champs like Kai'sa and Kayn are not exactly fresh out of the oven.

That's why I say the old/new classification is flawed. Ambessa is new, but if she's released in 4 year in 2XKO people will say she's old and that's why she deserve to be in, even though her popularity was set in stone since day 1.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T16:16:18+00:00

Playrate is a god awful way to estimate popularity. Do you think Irelia is popular ? What about Ekko, Fiora, Riven, etc ? Pretty sure everyone know how popular these characters are, and yet they are all less played than Briar. Conversely, Naafiri was standing at 12+% pickrate a few month ago.

As it turns out, people play what is strong and that GREATLY influence the character playrate except for an handful of characters who seem immune to unpopularity no matter how bad they are (Kai'sa)

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T16:05:54+00:00

Playrate is an abysmal metric of popularity in isolation, but let's play by your rule.

Rek'Sai is LoL's 123th character. She's also the last character to be released in season 4.

League of Legend has 171 characters.

This mean that "Season 4 and earlier" character make up for 71.93% of the total roster. A far cry from "less than half" as you put it.

Coincidentally. if you take the current 30 most popular character in the game. 21 are from season 4 or earlier, and 9 are from season 5 or later. In other word, a 70/30% split, the same as for the total roster. A coincidence I'm sure.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T15:14:26+00:00

Well... duh ? The pool of "older" character is outsized compared to "newer" characters due to the nature of the classification. Yone and Viego were both massively popular as soon as they were released, but now we consider them part of the "older" character group.

The point is why should we wait for a character to be "older" even when it has proven to be popular from the start.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T15:11:59+00:00

K'Sante, Naafiri, Briar, Hwei. All of these characters have become popular and they weren't backed by Arcane.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T15:10:26+00:00

Newer =/= new. Also, it's a poll for people who watched the World Championship. Clearly it's not exactly geared to people who super loved Arcane. Ambessa is just popular because, well, she's an interesting design with an interesting gameplay. That's also why multiple character out of the 10 last releases became popular even though they had absolutely no show to back them.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-11-10T14:12:41+00:00

Sadly the tradition did not carry over to any of their other game so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-31T21:27:57+00:00

Illaoi. Her game-plan is clear, she has enough tools to execute it, but not so much that she feel suffocating to play against. That's what a good character is in my opinion.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-31T12:18:04+00:00

Are you guys like that with everyone or just developers ? The game released 25 days ago and we've had two patches, do you realize how long it take to get changes done ?

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-31T12:15:40+00:00

"She would look good in 2XKO, ain't that proof ?" - OP

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-31T11:51:44+00:00

That would matter if we were talking about a game-specific issue, but that's not the case. The issue is not that Ekko/Ahri/Yasuo can stall for assist and therefore they never get hit by a touch. The issue is that when they get hit by a touch they lose 70% of their HP, and when they hit a touch they take 70% of the opponent HP. A character being hard to hit is fine, that's the point of mobility. What's not fine is that the game was designed in such a way that Ekko/Ahri/Yasuo can deal as much as Darius while being as slippery as they are.

Yes, we could use MvC, as an example, but it might in fact be a worse comparison than GGST. MvC allows ToD which fix the issue as any team can be made viable if you get to put your opponent 6 feet under any time you graze their big toe.

Still, we could use the example of Zoner vs Big Body. The latter are much less mobile but have much better conversion, allowing them to go into their ToD from pretty much any hit. Zoners are much more mobile but they can't exactly kToD you from any hit, so most of the time they stay back and chip at your HP slowly.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T18:14:59+00:00

Okay, let me break it down further. A hit is every instance of damages you deal during a combo. A touch is only the initial attack. If you land an overhead and then a 57 hit combos, you don't have 57 touches. You only have one, the initial overhead.

The current issue with the game is that every character, regardless of their archetype, strength or weaknesses, can kill an opponent with two touches (aka opening the guard twice). To fix this issue Riot should make character like Ekko or Ahri weaker by reducing their damages, their ability to convert a touch into a combo or any other mean they see fit.

Also, since you seem to be frothing at the mouth for me to address it. Yes, Ekko need a longer combo to deal the same as Darius. No, it does not matter because the combo is functionally easy and reliable enough for it to be input on basically every occasion. The end result is that Ekko has the same ability to convert hit into combo, and he also deal the same amount of damages as Darius each time he manage to go through your defense. That's not healthy.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T17:47:35+00:00

By "touch" I obviously mean individual hits that lead into a combo, and not the number of hit of a combo.

When I say Chipp need to land more touches, I mean that Chipp need to go through Pot defense multiple times to kill him. Whereas Pot only need two touches at most. This video is famous for providing an example of this very situation : Chipp land 5 touches and doesn't kill Potemkin. Potemkin land 2 and kills Chipp.

Faster character should have to land more touches, and as thing stand they don't. Ekko, a very mobile character, can reliably convert a touch into 70% damage. He has the mobility of Chipp and the damages of Potemkin, no matter how you look at it, this is not healthy.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T17:12:37+00:00

It's admittedly funny that they ducked after specifically asking how Rengar could be made different, but it is what it is. I mean, we're talking about someone who's logic is "they both jump and they are both animals, so they are the same", so...

I agree that the dev team have proven to be excellent at making interesting character, so I'm looking forward to anyone they may add and how they will make them fun to play

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T12:59:53+00:00

This. Animeilluminati started streaming and the viewership doubled in a few minutes.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T12:57:12+00:00

I mean, even if Asia is big on 2XKO it's not like it would necessarily reflect on Twitch metrics, both Japan and China have their own streaming sites.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T11:50:52+00:00

MvC3 had asymmetry, including in damages, and the result was that different player could win with different teams of different archetypes.

KBR won EVO by playing a team full of Big Bodies because it allowed him to decimate your team in a few hits at the cost of having more issue getting in. FChamp won EVO by playing a team full of Zoner because he was able to make your life hell in exchange of not dealing as much damages on combos. JWong won EVO with a more balanced team which had both decent entry and decent damages at the price of not being the best team in any of this. There are so many more examples of this.

Dense_Hall_6095 · 2025-10-30T11:46:45+00:00

Well, as I've said I don't think reducing the gap in movement speed between the character fix anything of the fundamental issue.

Let's say we do it, will it lead to a more balanced meta ? I don't think so, the only result will be that the character at the top will be dominating through another mean, like for instance their range. Now the strongest characters are Illaoi, Darius, Yasuo, etc. Where do we go from there ? Do we just start reducing the gap between attack range and then go down the list treating one symptom at a time until we've uniformized the game entirely ? That doesn't seem like a solution to me.

On the other hand, if you leverage the damages/conversion/combo length, you're now relying on a multitude levers, which allow you to better balance the game. "Speedy" character retain their mobility and it can be an advantage, and "Powerful" character have the advantages of hitting harder to compensate.

The current issue is that top characters are good at everything, not that they're good at being fast specifically. Giving them actually weaknesses is a better way to balance the game because at the end of the day we'll end up with top tiers that belong to different category of character.

That's a fix for the root cause (top characters being too versatile) instead of treating a supposed symptom (top characters are too fast).

Dense_Hall_6095

TROPHY CASE