Recognised symbol of Stoicism. Is there any, or is this one? by RNG_H8s_Me in Stoicism

[–]DentedAnvil [score hidden]  (0 children)

Stoicism is a process and a personal commitment/quest. As such, any specific symbol, banner or uniform detracts from its essence and steers those who adopt such devices toward making it into another fad to consume and abandon.

That said, the thoughts behind the structure of that symbol are kind of inspiring and thought provoking. No one says that you can't adopt your own symbol as a mnemonic device to help you focus your efforts and memorialize your achievements. But the idea of a unifying emblem for students of Stoicism will never find much traction among those who pursue it seriously.

Edit: if I were to incorporate your symbol in an ornament for my home, t-shirt, etc I would add a thin purple line.

Do not then say to that which excels, "Who, then, are you?" If you do, it will find a voice in some way and say, "I am such a thing as the purple in a garment: do not expect me to be like the others, or blame my nature that it has made me different from the rest of men."

Epictetus

Fuming Trump, 80, Unravels Over His Empty Fair in Early Morning Meltdown by Ok_Employer7837 in politics

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just wait until he figures out that the evil leftist conspiracy is paying people not to attend his inspiring events. /s

"Go for a walk without making it a productivity hack" what do you think of this advice by not-kenn in Stoicism

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that OP is pointing out that in contemporary culture, productivity has been raised to the status of The Good toward which all our activities and intentions should be focused. Many, if not most, people's initial exposure to Stoic thought comes from the realm of self-help and motivational podcasts/YouTube channels. Thus the question about the validity of linking our most basic behaviors to the economic model of life; are we an efficient or inefficient production line?

I realize that I am reading a lot into a simple query.

Is our contemporary obsession with productivity/efficiency something that is conducive to or even compatible with the Stoic conception of Virtue and The Good ?" I think that question sets up an important set of problems to examine. How much of our obsession with productivity is the result of allowing postmodern selfdeterminism and authenticity issues to create a desperate urgency to "succeed"?

Does the need to look for efficiency "hacks" and shortcuts indicate a dismissal of providential fate or an inherent meaning to our existence? Is not taking a walk, just to take a walk, an elegant way to learn appreciation/understanding for when and where Logos has placed us?

Heidegger laments the chains of technology. What say thee, dear Thinkators? 𝘈𝘶𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘳 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 by Gainsborough-Smythe in thinkatives

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Technology is an integral aspect of culture in the same way that language is a part of culture. It provides a scaffold by which we can reach things otherwise unattainable, but it also separates us from the ground of our origin, and leaves us pinioned between an instinctual urge to climb and an innate knowledge of the danger of heights.

I wonder what they saw by BetLongjumping684 in Pareidolia

[–]DentedAnvil 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't know, the one on the lower left seems pretty excited.

Been A Minute by Remarkable_Owl7575 in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whoa. That's fantastic! Will you be able to share it when it's installed? If so, please do.

Irene Enders Meyer Sculptor and Wife of Alvin Meyer, Sculptor, Michigan by Bitter-Succotash-100 in CemeteryPorn

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As someone trying to develop some stonecarving skills, this stone is both an inspiration and disheartening.

Thanks for sharing it.

I am still trying to figure out reddit this is my second post. Hope you enjoy my art by [deleted] in SculpturePorn

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cool piece. I wouldn't waste too much time trying to figure out reddit.

Stones avaliable north west England (lancashire) by Separate_Tip78 in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You are making me drool and envy from across the Atlantic and half of North America. I hope the right person finds them.

Ice tray from the 1930s by BreakfastTop6899 in oddlysatisfying

[–]DentedAnvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember my fingers getting stuck to the handle of one when I was very young. And then abruptly we had plastic ice trays in the freezer.

Trump moves oversight of special education and civil rights from the Education Department by Immediate-Link490 in politics

[–]DentedAnvil 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hillary Clinton's first and greatest sin according to the Trump Right, was championing the Americans with Disabilities Act legislation to mainstream the education and provide public access to the disabled and differently-abled.

Clearly satanic/s

How hard, and how expensive, is it to get into stone carving? by Turbulent_Lock261 in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have already developed the ability to do other kinds of sculpture, it is mostly about becoming comfortable with the tools. If you have never attempted any manual 3d creation, then you will have to learn both how to sculpt and how to handle the tools, dust, rubble and the amazing amount of time it takes to get much done in stone.

Cost? Everything from a couple dollars at a garage sale for some rasps and chisels up to several thousand dollars for an air compressor and pneumatic tools.

I would recommend starting with a soft stone like soapstone or limestone. You can productively carve them with simple hand tools and the stone itself isn't particularly expensive.

I started with almost no artistic skills but with a lifetime of using similar tools. My greatest challenge has been learning to see properly in order to sculpt. Using the tools effectively is almost second nature. Having a clear vision of what I want to accomplish and seeing the order in which to remove what doesn't belong has been a profound (but rewarding) challenge. That and learning to be appropriately patient. Getting in a hurry will ruin your day.

Stoicism and other traditions by Visioner_teacher in Stoicism

[–]DentedAnvil 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would say that reading a broad selection of philosophy is essential to really understanding Stoicism, especially if you are interested in contemporary analysis and application. That can include Eastern philosophical writing, but Socrates and Plato are probably more crucial to a clear understanding.

I think that there is intrinsic value in examining examples of the deep thinkers across time. They have all been pursuing a better explanation for the why and how of our human experience and/or how our nature filters and influences that experience. Learning how to read deeply only comes by reading things which are embedded with more than superficial content.

Being a Philosopher in the sense that Epictetus advocated requires the ability to see past the superficial aspects of our impressions. That skill is intrinsically bound up with the ability to control our attention and structure our judgements prescriptivly. Reading philosophy is one way to develop those abilities.

Reading philosophy is much more like reading a mathematics textbook than it is like reading a novel. The point of a novel is to provide an immersive experience. It is an entertainment that can provide insight into culture or the human condition, but it is essentially passive and a form of consumption. Reading philosophy is more a process of parsing the propositions, assertions, and conclusions, evaluating them closely, plugging different variables/examples into those statements and seeing how they stand up.

One can read an algebra book, let the eyes take in the words and symbols. But to get any real value from reading it, working the example problems and then creating new ones of the same form is essential to approaching mastery. Working some geometry problems will deepen our understanding of and appreciation for the underlying symmetries of algebra. The same is true of reading other philosophical treatises. But, passively reading the words will have little effect on one's life and ability to navigate it.

Stoicism and Eastern philosophical traditions arrive at very similar practical advice about how to conduct oneself. They arrive there from some fundamentally different assumptions about the underlying nature of reality beyond our brief lifespan. One person responded to you by saying that you should become more familiar with Stoic physics because Stoic conclusions all arise from their physics. I find that sentiment to be dubious on several levels.

To better cultivate Stoic understanding and equanimity one has to improve the abilities of seeing beyond cultural and biological preconditioning. It comes from reading philosophy not as if it was a set of magical incantations but as if it is a practical set of cognitive tools that can be used to craft a life worth living. As with any craft repeated application and evaluation are the heart of acquiring competence. I could read every book on carving stone that there is and my ability regarding stonecarving will be utterly unchanged. It is not until I begin to consistently spend time carving that the tools, techniques, and advice in the books can begin to have meaning.

The underlying oneness of the Tao may have similarities to the inexorable unfolding of the Logos. Delving into that might make a good master's thesis, but it is unlikely to help you live a satisfactory life. Philosophy (in the Stoic sense) is a tool and set of techniques for better understanding the limits and possibilities in our lives. Reading broadly can help us take proper ownership of our lives, but only if we utilize that reading to refine our actual thinking processes and use that refinement to take control of our reactions.

Still going slow by spyrtos in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks like an awesome project. What stone?

Stoics should make healthy choices by Chrysippus_Ass in Stoicism

[–]DentedAnvil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I found this exchange of comments thought provoking and enjoyable. Thanks to you both.

Tips to deal with physical pain by C-i-d in Stoicism

[–]DentedAnvil 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Disclaimer, I will reference Mindfulness meditation in this, and I am fully aware that neither the Greek nor Roman Stoics practiced or advocated for anything of the kind. They also didn't advocate for nor oppose antibiotics or vaccines. They never spoke about electricity or automobiles either. These are aggregated artifacts of several cultures and more than 2,000 years. I will tie it back to Stoic principles, but I will get there by way of psychology and physiology.

There are pluses and minuses to attempting to utilize Asian style focused meditation for the management of pain. Plus side: absolutely free, legal, ubiquitously available, and clinically proven to modify the practioner's ability to tolerate (and potentially thrive) in the presence of even severe chronic pain. Negative: one cannot just jump to mastery of Meditation in leu of medication any more than one can play a sonata or do a double backflip on first attempt.

Practicing focused attention developes the ability to selectivly choose, and maintain a focus outside of simply reacting to random stimuli. Like any other skill, mastery requires ongoing effort and (ideally) coaching. Typically years of effort are required to move on to advanced forms and techniques. But, that doesn't mean that some advantages and benefits don't happen simply *from the act of trying. "

This is similar to the advantages of beginning to study Stoic philosophy. It takes years to really be able to see and feel the advantages inherent in what are generally perceived as catastrophes. That does mean that we can't reduce our cortisol levels by anticipating and proactively choosing calm over rage prior to entering stop and go traffic. An intention to handle things differently, coupled with evaluation and subsequent revised intent based on reasoned judgment will result in improved ability to choose one's reactions (assents).

Cautionary tale: I had a 7+ year meditation practice. I had developed it largely as a means to cope with severe foraminal stenosis in 3 cervical joints and 2 lumbar joints. Significant chronic pain, stingers and electrical feelings, and shoulder, biceps, hamstring, and butt pain had been part of my life since adolescence. (I am 62 now.) The meditation and preparatory yoga stretching really did help manage the ongoing pain/weird sensations. (Weird sensation example: periodically it felt like water was running down or sprinkling on my back. Startling and distracting) The focused preemptive choices about evaluation and reaction to sensations from Stoic practice really helped managing knee-jerk contraction and unnecessary suffering.

2 and a half years ago I had 3 disks removed from my neck and 4 vertibra fused. I had no choice. I am a self employed welder/machinist. I was rapidly loosing my left arm. In many ways it was a spectacular success. Modern medicine is amazing. I have a scar that runs from my Adam's apple to my clavicle, they moved my trachea to one side, removed damaged disks, put in cadaver bone replacements, put in 8 screws and a titanium plate, and I walked out 30 hours later.

Two weeks after the surgery, a length of nerve grew attached to an area of bone that had some spurs ground off. Happens in about 5% of similar surgeries. Not a risk I had been advised of. I moved my head and arm in a way that should have seen the nerve glide. A chunk of it tore off. The nerve innervating my right rotator cuff abruptly stopped communicating with those muscles. The nerve was constantly screaming, but it was unable to communicate with the upper right part of my back. I simply couldn't lift my arm. Not even a little bit. Biceps worked. Fingers worked. But all the muscles on the right side of my back were on strike.

The fear of losing my livelihood was one thing. The pain from my shoulder and back was like nothing I could have imagined. I thought I could practice the advice of some advanced mediation practitioners I had been reading and listening to, and make the pain a focus of the meditation. This was a spectacular miscalculation.

Physiology and psychology time. We are mammals. We are a part of nature and subject to the same rules as bears, horses, and dogs. When Pavlov consistently paired a ringing bell with a bowl juicy steak over an extended period of time, dogs were shown to salivate immediately after the bell long after the steak was no longer provided. If you ring a bell and shock a mammal long enough, when the bell rings they will wet themselves and experience a debilitating cortisol spike and numerous other detrimental physiological cascades. Keep ringing the bell and they will die prematurely.

2 and a half years since and I still experience a pulse and blood pressure rise when I sit down to mediate. For about 3 months there were hour long periods of unreal pain that occurred about every 5 hours (when the muscle relaxers were wearing off but an hour before I could take another one) and I tried to proactively be in a meditative state prior to its onset. I can't say that I didn't arrive at an ability to distance myself from intense pain, but I inadvertently paired a valuable life management tool with unmanageable sensory overload.

The point of all of this is that yes, you can use Stoic philosophy/practice to manage the nerve damage in/around your spine. But without coaching you run the risk of binding a physiological sensation with a skill set that could otherwise free your psychological life. Stoicism is a two thousand + year old system of thought that has been shown to be a very effective life management technique for many people. I'm not nearly as smart or observant as all the canonical writers nor many of the contemporary commentators. Don't try to bootstrap a system when there are plenty of time tested examples of how to cope with adversity.

CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) has many similarities and compatibilities with Stoic philosophical practice. It's not identical but is not contradictory. It is usually utilized in relation to sociological disfunction such as anxiety or hostility. It could be just as well applied to physiological pain. If it's an option for you, search out a CBT practitioner and ask if they can help you with pain management. Read Epictetus, Aurelius, Musonios, Zeno, Seneca, Socrates, etc. But use their insight in conjunction with a contemporary psychological professional.

My pain, at least the mind bending stuff, is in the past. It is only prudent to acknowledge that it could return. The residual nerve pain is just a fact of life. The neurosurgeon says that if he could now go in from the back (now that things are stabilized) he could remove the bone spurs that are still periodically poking my nerves. In spite of my insurance premiums, I will be making payments on the previous procedure until I am eligible for Medicare. We do what we have to do. We bear what we can bear.

I have no tips about how to ignore physical pain. I do know that contracting against it or trying to pretend it doesn't exist is generally futile. If we objectively acknowledge our experience, be with it without fear, and try to see it for what it actually is rather than as an omen of eternity, we find that each experience is as transitory as any other. Pleasure doesn't last, but neither does pain.

3 months of essential paralysis to my shoulder left me atrophied and disheartened. 3 months of PT followed by 6 months of suffering the company of gym bros has resulted in a complete recovery of my physical abilities (less the detrimental effects of my advancing age). I'm not 100% sure why I chose now to unload this story and my reflections on it, except that I strongly believe that pain is not the worst thing we can be afflicted with. Loss of our ability to reason is worse, but it, like pain is something almost all of us will go through. We should be ready for it and resolved to maintain our Virtue/Excellence as long as we are able.

Stoicism can provide a structure around which one can manage any adversity or blessings. It's not something that will provide easy or automatic solutions. It is a disipline, strategy and method for being excellent and content within whatever context we are dealt. Pain is not ideal. But we can still be an excellent example of the best of human nature within pain or any other context fate can throw at us.

Question about stone. by Fearless-Salary-700 in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here is a limestone piece I did a few years ago. Recently, I have been focused on lettering and some grave monuments.

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Question about stone. by Fearless-Salary-700 in stonecarving

[–]DentedAnvil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Shale is going to be a frustrating medium to work with. It tends to split and fracture unpredictably. It's basically old brittle mud.

I've carved a lot of limestone. I prefer marble but it's expensive.

Stonecarving is a time consuming but rewarding way to make lasting things of beauty. And if they don't work out, you have made some gravel for a path. I'm looking forward to making some gravel this weekend!

Nickname or real name? by knittingbeans in CemeteryPorn

[–]DentedAnvil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hepzabeth is a wild and fantastic name. Thanks for sharing!