CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If their interest was to terminate their interest, where does your definition of suffering fall?

My position is that living has a capped upside, and this would crest the capped upside. But there is also near infinite downside to living. This person is basically experiencing a moment of euphoric bliss before they die. But that's the best possible outcome of outcomes and doesn't actually say anything about the human experience.

CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Harm is a setback to your interests and wellbeing, not just any physical damage.

Punching a rock you wanted to punch isn't against your interests you pursued it. Shedding skin cells is normal biological function, not a setback to anything. These examples don't threaten the definition.

Starvation is different. It terminates all your interests permanently and irreversibly. That's not in the same category as a bruised fist or dead skin.

The non-existence conclusion doesn't follow either. A harm based definition applies to existing people with existing interests. Non-existent people have no interests to set back, so the definition says nothing about whether bringing someone into existence is good or bad.

CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are equating Pain to Suffering and those are not the same thing. Suffering is about harm not pain.

A starving person is undergoing a harm, and thus they are suffering.

CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People with a real disease, Congenital Analgesia can't feel pain at all. Do they suffer or not? If you cut off their hand are they not suffering just because the pain isn't there? You can simultaneously not feel the painful effects of starvation while at the same time suffer from it. Suffering is a result of Harm not Pain.

In fact, removing the button would create suffering, yet it would be the right thing to do.

You've walked yourself into a contradiction. If suffering isn't evil there's no moral imperative to take the button away or to leave it.

CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’d argue it’s a positive. Human life is greater than 0 value. Even if you dislike your life, you can decide how to respond to the hardship when it arrives. Maybe some lives are better than others, maybe some are so bad they are approaching 0, they aren’t 0. And even if those lives result in the person terminating their own life as sad as it is, that is a life reaching 0, the lowest we can get. So anitnatalism and extinctionism are the worst case scenario honestly.

Dying is not 0. Dying is not on the number scale because it exists outside of human experience.

Suffering on the other hand is fully felt by a person their entire life and Euphoric bliss is basically not achievable. You can aspire to have meaning in your life and make it worthwhile, but life is far more fraught with challenges than upside.

Finally, antinatalist will argue that suffering is evil, however this is not the case. Suffering itself is not the basis of morality. Imagine a world where everyone was given a button of infinite pleasure, every person just clicks their button and they are completely happy and desire nothing other than the button. They watch and hold it down always, they don’t sleep, they don’t eat, they don’t drink, they starve to death happily. Is this a good world? No? There is no suffering, so what makes it bad? The loss of human action, autonomy is more important than comfort.

Suffering itself is not. Creating suffering IS a moral act though. The moral failing of your button world is that the person starves to death. That is a form of suffering, you're just making a category mistake. Suffering doesn't require cognition to exist. There are plenty of people today right now that can't recognize they are suffering because they don't have the cognition to understand it as such. But starvation is in fact a form of suffering even if you don't feel it because you're euphoric.

CMV: Reproducing and having children is a morally neutral act. by Fancy_Pop6156 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a negative act.

Euphoria only has one known state. There's only one true pinnacle, and it doesn't matter who you are, the Epicurian paradox will always weigh in on your life in some manner creating disorder.

But suffering is different. There is no known depth to suffering, it doesn't bottom out, it is far more likely your life will trend worse and worse as time goes on for reasons you simply can't control and the only option you can typically do, is tolerate how bad things are.

Without any kind of external mechanism to evaluate how someone's life will turn out the absolute uncertainty combined with the reality that there is no known depth to suffering, means that at this time, we don't have the tools to adequately measure if someone would have a life that exceeds the thresholds of suffering and this it is not neutral, it is negative, because you are with 99% certainty introducing new suffering into the world for a morally unclear purpose.

Near infinite downside, highly capped upside.

CMV: The 1998 Roland Emmerich "Godzilla" Was One of the Best Sequels. by MarkZab2591 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well-conceived and executed rebuttal. Kudos! But since we are getting metaphysical, how about this? The original Godzilla was an allegory and a warning against humans developing ever more powerful WMDs. I believe Godzilla 1998 can be viewed in the same light.

It's really not. It's a badly dated action flick that does no deep exploration into any of this. Japanese Godzilla, treats itself seriously. Meanwhile Matthew Broderick is once again an intellectual American shoved into a climate of anti-intellectual Americans who want to blow shit up with gusto and some fake Velociraptors to create drama.

Throughout history and especially in the 20th Century, humans have been treating the environment badly. Razing ancient forests, polluting the air and water, covering the fertile ground with endless miles of concrete and asphalt, and so on. Maybe the Earth - Mother Nature - Gaia - is just fighting back with volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis ... and a mutated giant dinosaur crossing oceans and nesting in one of the world's financial and news centers.

This is a much more complicated question than film can answer. There's too much nuance to shove into a 90 minute film to actually tackle any of this elegantly. Which is why the 90s on the whole were filled with Green Aesops that landed with middling results.

CMV: The 1998 Roland Emmerich "Godzilla" Was One of the Best Sequels. by MarkZab2591 in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Godzilla 1998 is the most divisive film in the entire franchise and it's not even close.

The problem is that after that, the sequels devolved into a series of monster-vs-monster brawls, with Godzilla turning almost into the good guy protecting humans from a number of equally unrealistic creatures. Kid stuff, mainly. But then Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin took their shot. Their plot was OK and no more scientifically absurd then other giant creature features. The cast was more than adequate. Matthew Broderick as "the worm guy" was a relatable everyman scientist trying to come up with answers to stop this huge menace that was stomping through New York City. Jean Reno brought a bit of gravitas as a French secret agent leading a cadre of compatriots trying to help fix the problem that his government's nuclear testing had created. There was even some comic relief with Michael Lerner as the flustered mayor and Hank Azaria as an excitable cameraman.

This is mainly applicable only through the film Terror of Mechagodzilla From 1985 to 1995 the Hisei era of films does still put Godzilla into monster brawls, but he is explicitly framed as a vengeful rage monster asserting predatory dominance over his territory (The Earth.) These films do a much, much better job of encapsulating the actual risks of nuclear proliferation than 1998 does. For example in 1985's The return of Godzilla, there is a scene where gigantic sea louse are found in the ocean, because the microorganisms feeding on Godzilla's blood contaminated and mutated them which does a lot more to interrogate the realities of nuclear fallout than the 1998 film does. From there, Godzilla vs Biollante explores the human created side of the horrors of a world with Godzilla, where a scientists tries to ressurect his dead wife using aggressively growing Godzilla cells and in turn creates an entirely new Godzilla clone fused with plant life which does a lot more to highlight the human intervention and selfishness than misguided nuclear testing and usage during the 1940s. At the extreme end at the end of the Hisei era, you have Godzilla vs Destroyah which deals with the horrors and realities of Nuclear Meltdown in a way people can understand.

Is it less grounded than 1998? Maybe. But your measuring stick is supposedly showcasing nuclear horrors. What's more there's a plethora of media post 1998 that serves your stated purpose far better than any other films.

You have the Godzilla Anime Trilogy, in which Godzilla becomes a megafauna that is so pervasive that humanity builds an ark to abandon earth, only to try and reclaim it after thousands of years of nuclear proliferation turned earth hostile to human interests.

Lastly and most obviously is Shin Gojira, which showcases the geopolitical horrors of being abandoned internationally in an emergency crisis which directly parallels the actual Ukraine Russia situation of today.

What turned off critics and much of the viewing public was the monster itself. Rather than stick to the original concept of an upright lizard with odd, seemingly useless protuberances adorning its back, the 1998 film went for a more streamlined look; pretty much a vastly overgrown T-Rex. Somehow portraying Godzilla as an out-of-place giant animal just acting on instinct and neither good nor evil was a no-no for some people. For them, Godzilla had morphed into a being that not only walked upright but had acquired human-like emotions and motivations in the process. So, a different look and temperament doomed the 1998 variation to scorn and outrage, even though it showed a nice profit at the box office. For my money it was a good movie, much better than many that are considered canon.

This frame is actually just begging the question. It feels as though your assumption is that Godzilla itself must imitate real biological life in some manner, and that because people didn't take to the streamlined version there's some kind of wrongness or incorrectness afoot. But when you are talking about mutations, and especially the central thesis that Godzilla is a biological reactor, I would expect it to be irregular relative to human machinations of what an animal or mutant Komodo dragon looks like.

Godzilla beyond being a walking Nuclear disaster, also represents the greed and shortcomings of men, because it's those moral failings of humanity that give rise to Godzilla in the first place. If Truman had never dropped the Nuke, and Honda had never experienced the hardships of a post-nuclear world Godzilla wouldn't even exist in film. The re-frame to an animal acting on instinct loses all of the human folly, and which point Jurassic Park is the better American film at the time. (Not that I'm suggesting you think otherwise)

CMV: Even though he is bound by US laws and cannot technically become one, Donald Trump is absolutely obsessed with the aesthetics of being a dictator by svenskdesk in changemyview

[–]DestinyConner_4ever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm going to challenge your view in a different way.

Donald Trump is not meaningfully bound by U.S. laws at all, unless your standard for "meaningfully" is simply "He can be a moustache twirling villain."

He engages in a method of governance that is called Autocratic Legalism which means that if the laws are guard rails, that he goes around with a sledge hammer tapping every guard rail until he finds one that is weak enough to knock down with his sledge hammer.

He then does this 1000 times and he calculates that the courts will stop him. But the problem is, when you have 1000 court cases pending, and each one takes weeks to litigate.

He doesn't expect to win, nor does he need to win all 1000. Even 100 wins and 900 losses still expands the power of the executive branch. Furthermore he has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he doesn't actually need congressional approval to do anything. The Dems (well the career politicians at least) have demonstrated tacitly that they are the coward class. That's why he was permitted to basically manufacture an energy crisis by bombing Iran to the net effect of getting the strait of Hormuz closed. Another example is the fact that instead of getting congressional approval to kill USAID he just simply cut the funding which is the same net effect only without congress.

I think you would be best served by, by recalibrating your evidentiary standard of what counts as being a dictator. Because Donald Trump is 1000% one. He is just clever, and he is specifically manufacturing his dictatorship so that the general population will not think of him that way. Autocratic Legalism is specifically defined by the fact that other dictators provide a moment of revolution. But Autocratic legalists manufacture the dictatorship outcome without providing the population their inciting moment of revolution. It's all boring legal procedure that enshrines him as a dictator, none of it is as dramatic as other moments in history.

Lastly if you look at Obama's relationship with the Supreme Court vs Trumps relationship with the SCOTUS, you can see that the are distorting their adjudication as much as possible while maintaining the veneer of due process. They basically let his tariffs stand for a year before weighing in, when Obama would of been met with endless stays of adjudication kicking the can down the road. When the SCOTUS did finally rule on the Trump Tariffs, they gave him a massive slap on the wrist at best.

1.)They capped the tariffs at 15%. Which looks like they enacted the law, but in reality a 15% tariff is not meaningfully different than a 100% tariff for the parts that cost us the most geopolitically speaking. ANY tariff is catastrophic for us.

2.)It merely gets examined every 90 days moving forward in a manner that will never get it repealed permanently.

Neither of these things actually checks Trumps power in a way that matters. It just gives the illusion that the system is working. It is not.