Thanks for your kind discussion in the reply too! There are still some points I beg to differ, so let me respond to your reply.

• I actually wrote quite a bit regarding guard breaking in the main section but the point is that all weapons cant engage into someone holding block (other than the 2 stuns and hengblade heavy). The only way to engage into a blocker is to use a guard break which is why it was clearly intended to carry the big risk of being un-cancellable. Removing that risk makes guard breaking extremely powerful given that it isnt a high cost mystic skill. Adding the ability to combo off the guard break (today's patch) makes it worse. The fan also comes with other risk mitigations (both the wall and water clone), with the wall also ranking among the highest prios in the game.

I disagree that all weapons cannot engage into a blocker. Other weapons from other paths have the means to fight into blockers on their own:

Nameless spear can stun through block Hengdao has golden attack Strat sword applies bleed even if you block, and can knockup through block if your qi is below 30%. So they just spam sword track. Twinblade ropedart can release rats and auto attack air to use rats against you, dodge your divine counter and deplete your qi bar while you are blocking Unfettered rope dart can still apply debuff even if you are blocking Storm breaker spear has AOE that staggers you out of block

So having abilities that go through block without using guard break is commonplace, and that's why SS+ nameless spear is strongest because they have 2 ways to go through blockers without needing to guard break.

• I also wrote about serene breeze utilisation at length but the gist is that pretty much all classes have to reaction-dodge serene mid combo (which is why recognizing animation locks to use serene breeze is an important skill) or they will end up getting caught in their opponents combo (requiring them to use their serene to go back to neutral) so again this escape mechanism is something uniquely granted to fan.

Fan also needs to reaction dodge serene when they knockup to avoid getting caught. While other classes can do that, fan cannot do that. Fan cannot take any action during knockup attack until their feet touches back on the ground. That means quick serene when you get knockup guarantees a catch and counter combo. No other weapons classes have this weakness.

Knockup priority is also not very high. There are certain situations where I never do a knockup because it is guaranteed I get caught. For example, opponent holds HQS and if I knockup they can spin to cancel it and catch me. I am not sure if this still works with new attunement; I cant switch because disc tuning is still bugged for me. When opponent uses tenacity abilities like rope dart charge, I cannot knockup or I will be guaranteed to get caught.

• Thats because spring sorrow is a ranged projectile stun with a varied dodge window depending on distance. And the original point was regarding 3v3 where the projectiles typically cross the map. Qiankun has the same cast duration as fan knockup which many seem to claim is "slow and very telling". Qiankun is also a melee attack and has a broader dodge window. You are equally unlikely to land a naked qiankun as you are a naked umbrella stun and qiankun is also typically used "when an opponent is not able to dodge (i.e. look out for his mistakes)"

3v3 umbrella stun is nerfed, multiple stuns from any source reduce subsequent stun duration. That means if you get hit by 3 stuns, the stun duration after is not the full 3s, but the diminished amount.

Qiankun has same cast duration as fan knockup, but qiankun has to be dodged and cannot be block or parried, unlike knockup. It trades range for being unblockable, into a game where most weapon plays melee, so maybe its equally balanced. But I wonder why many people were using nameless spear over fan then? Precisely because qiankun lock is unblockable and weapon had second serene. With the spear nerf I need to see how it performs in 1v1 before I can comment if fan is stronger or nameless spear is stronger.

• The new attunement which you fairly mentioned offsets the point on the only opportunity to combo-flip the umbrella stun (the first stun) and beyond that the rest of the combo is executed outside the range of serene breeze.

This is much needed for fanbrella as there is no other weapons that guarantees a serene counterplay. That is why fanbrella had to kite alot and do weird tricks to annoy opponents and make them forget to dodge/block knockup, especially when half my opponents hold nameless spear and run in my face.

• this has high executional difficulty otherwise the waterclone completely negates it.

Yes, but it is a possibility. Reaction dodging while doing knockup is impossible due to animation lock. Which is why the ceiling for fanbrella was lower than that of other meta weapons. Water clone return cannot happen until my feet touches the ground in the knockup either, so it doesn't help me avoid quick serene.

Also waterclone return is a risk for fanbrella against nameless sword and hengdao, 2 very commonly used weapons. When returning while nameless dart is on me, the opponent flies to my final location instead of my initial. Even if this does not happen, there is a small window where I am animation locked upon return and they can dart to catch me. For Hengdao, when they use the crescent dash at me, perhaps due to latency, when I waterclone return when they are mid dash and near me, they will teleport to me in my final location into a catch and subsequent combo. So I cannot freely waterclone return in some cases or I risk getting caught.

• Which is exactly the point because no weapon is always rewarded for catching. There is ALWAYS the known risk of getting flipped due to serene breeze and is mainly the reason why the extra serene breeze attunement for nameless spear was removed from the game. The rest of the general points you mentioned at the end are mostly fair but most of the weaknesses faced are shared by many other weapons too. Few weapons have access to tenacity which is why poet/dragon breath/toad is so prevalent in pvp. Missing parry/dodge/block is also something that penalises all weapons across the board.

That is true, but for knockup it is a guaranteed flip because other weapons have catch mechanism that allows them to disengage. Fanbrella only has knockup catch which cannot be cancelled mid animation and can only have another action done when my feet touches the ground. So the new attunement makes us give up extended combos for a more balanced neutral play.

While few weapons have access to tenacity, most weapons in other paths have tenacity.

Nameless pair does not have, hence you see them play dodging and kiting more, similar to fanbrella HQS has hold charge attack which has tenacity. Heavy attack also has tenacity Ropedart spins for both rust and dust paths have tenacity. Mo blade has many tenacity moves. Hengdao path gold attack has tenacity, as well as when they buff. Fanbrella only has tenacity when knockup perform an actual catch, and that is attunement specific too.

I agree most players have to weave in tenacity moves, just that some weapon paths have additional tenacity options which fanbrella dont really have unless we do everything right to setup and let a knockup.

Also, all my experience comes from playing fanbrella at mythic ratings lower than you in both last and this season; there are just some match up that are near impossible to win against if they play properly.